Karaoke Forums

ok.... DISCLAIMER: this is in good fun..... please don't flame us for this..



A few of us were chattin tonight.... We've decided that there are a TON of ppl who CHOOSE the critique option, but still can't take an actual critique... and then the person who DOES point out a few areas for improvement, they seem to get shot down by following commenters which makes some ppl feel BAD about trying to HELP the singer, but we're starting a revolution!! ! We're not going to be discouraged by those of us who think we're MEAN cuz we're just givin what you asked for! A CRITIQUE!! (note: we'd NEVER be cruel or hurtfull..... we'd be HONEST, and genuinely just trying to help. THat's what the critique option is for)

SO.... here's the agreement: (copy and paste it)

I ___insert name here____ hereby swear to always be completely honest when commenting on ANY sub. If it's a "Just for Fun" sub, I promise not to LIE to the person to make them feel better, but will ONLY point out the positives. If it's a Critique sub.... I will give you my opinion on where you can improve, and I will ALWAYS point out positives as well. and NEVER, under ANY circumstances will I ever intentionally hurt someone's feelings, or degrade them.... and I will try my hardest to use the "Up, down, Up" method* that Jazzy taught us a while back. I will NOT be swayed by the Fluffin-willy-nilly-10-hander-outers and will not give someone a 10 if we don't feel it's "perfect"

ok.... did I get it all, guys?

*up,down, up method - basic commenting format: Start out by stating a positive, then point out where they can improve, and end on another positive.

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I CRYSTAL hereby swear to always be completely honest when commenting on ANY sub. If it's a "Just for Fun" sub, I promise not to LIE to the person to make them feel better, but will ONLY point out the positives. If it's a Critique sub.... I will give you my opinion on where you can improve, and I will ALWAYS point out positives as well. and NEVER, under ANY circumstances will I ever intentionally hurt someone's feelings, or degrade them.... and I will try my hardest to use the "Up, down, Up" method* that Jazzy taught us a while back. I will NOT be swayed by the Fluffin-willy-nilly-10-hander-outers and will not give someone a 10 if we don't feel it's "perfect"

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I ___jOsE____ hereby swear to always be completely honest when commenting on ANY sub. If it's a "Just for Fun" sub, I promise not to LIE to the person to make them feel better, but will ONLY point out the positives. If it's a Critique sub.... I will give you my opinion on where you can improve, and I will ALWAYS point out positives as well. and NEVER, under ANY circumstances will I ever intentionally hurt someone's feelings, or degrade them.... and I will try my hardest to use the "Up, down, Up" method* that Jazzy taught us a while back. I will NOT be swayed by the Fluffin-willy-nilly-10-hander-outers and will not give someone a 10 if we don't feel it's "perfect"

and my own agreement....I josE swear to worship crystal as long as she wears those ohhh soo awesome librarian glasses of hers....yup yup....anyways back to the subjectt yess i totally agree..too many 10´s going around and too much Fluffffff..........

I Brett (Rainbowgnu) hereby swear to always be completely honest when commenting on ANY sub. If it's a "Just for Fun" sub, I promise not to LIE to the person to make them feel better, but will ONLY point out the positives. If it's a Critique sub.... I will give you my opinion on where you can improve, and I will ALWAYS point out positives as well, and NEVER, under ANY circumstances will I ever intentionally hurt someone's feelings, or degrade them.... and I will try my hardest to use the "Up, down, Up" method* that Jazzy taught us a while back. I will NOT be swayed by the Fluffin-willy-nilly-10-hander-outers and will not give someone a 10 if we don't feel it's "perfect"...


HONESTY IS THE WAY FORWARD...! Lets use this site to its full potential, and if you don't want a critique or an HONEST rank, don't submit in the "C" category!

Much love xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

No offense to the fluffers, but I HAVE to be true to myself... I expect honesty and can accept it, and so I feel its only fair to give it to others!
I would NEVER use it to be mean to people... But I can't be comfortable with lying... Sorry!

I ___STEVEN KAPLAN___ hereby swear to always be completely honest when commenting on ANY sub. If it's a "Just for Fun" sub, I promise not to LIE to the person to make them feel better, but will ONLY point out the positives. If it's a Critique sub.... I will give you my opinion on where you can improve, and I will ALWAYS point out positives as well. and NEVER, under ANY circumstances will I ever intentionally hurt someone's feelings, or degrade them.... and I will try my hardest to use the "Up, down, Up" method* that Jazzy taught us a while back. I will NOT be swayed by the Fluffin-willy-nilly-10-hander-outers and will not give someone a 10 if we don't feel it's "perfect"
(As long as Crystal, and Rainbow, and Jose critique the person first, and I get to see the persons replies. In such a case if the person get's belicose, I quit)


In all seriousness, It is very wrong to deceive the person posting in the "critique" category, who genuinely desires help to improve because we assume like some (that have no right posting there), the person will be offended.

It's not right when honesty is compromised because some posting in "C", don't understand what the term really means.

The mature honest person relying on our real feelings shouldn't lose out, nor should Singers showcase be reduced to "white lies" because some make us feel to offer constructive criticism only forms enemies.

sorry to be such a kill joy ...yes i know as always but seriously the way the ratings are...even with honest critique people are not being honest...or at least the rankings don't match that of the critique...i found this out for myself when i subbed a song for critique...it was funny to see what happened...the last person to comment said oh yes what a stunning voice you have, you have blown me away...yeah blew you away that much the rank went down by 3 lmaoo, i found this funny in one sense because ratings make not an ounce of difference to me, but i asked for critique and didnt get it, but i did in a round about way through the rank they gave...they thought it sucked so why didnt they tell me what was wrong? perhaps unsure of my reaction, perhaps it was competition who knows the answer....i didn't quite realise why people were screaming about this till i saw it happen before my own eyes...was amusing, but it teaches you a lesson....perhaps this will be addressed when phil does more changes and people can submit a song for critique without ranks.

The other thing is... those that do give honest critique are quite the guilty parties also to giving out fluff to their friends and saying yes you did an amazing job on this song...when to other ears it was far from amazing but that's ok friendship is important...but then again so is truth.

after much pondering and thought over time...there really is no fair way, not just for fun, nor critique, because everyone is so different. yeah its took me months to work that bugger out olol...so as long as people are happy doing their own thing whether it be just for fun or critique then its all good i suppose.

I really do believe it's a case of how many friends ya make and if you have the kind of voice people enjoy listening to and song choice if its a popular song depends on what kind of reviews you get about your sub's...that aint a bad thing not really

I have to say that I for one will be giving honesty to my friends as well as anyone else, as I believe that is what the critique category is for... I can't comment on the ranking system, because I personally think that is where the flaw is, but if somebody submits a song in the critique category, honesty should be paramount, even to friends.

If they are friends, then they will value your opinon and the friendship will be unaffected anyway, so I don't see why you'd need to give them "fluff"...

For example, if a friend asks you for your opinion on an outfit for a night out, and it looked bad, or needed a small adjustment, would you tell them it looked great and let them go out looking bad???

I don't believe, that as a friend, I would do that, and so honesty, for me, is the best policy.

Therefore, ALL subs in the critique category will get honesty from me, be they my friends, acquaintances, or strangers... Thats what the category is for, and it is how it should be used... If you aren't a fan of critique, then why would you put your songs in that category anyway? I know I'm new and that question may have to be answered for me, but the way I see it, submitting a song for the "C" category is saying you are open to a critique...

Also, being honest means that on the rare occasion that you CAN find NOTHING to pick on, then that comment will mean ten times more because it can be identified as honesty, and not just fluffy comments...

Anyway - I type too much, so I'll shush now until I have more to say...

Brett xxxxxxxxxxxx

well to be quite honest Brett i aint no fan of the critique cat as many will tell you...but i genuinely did have reasons for asking and did say openly please be as harsh as you feel necessary...i would rather it come from here than an audience of 300 or so

I personally had not performed live for well over 2 years, i was asked to sing at a function, so i chose a song recorded it and wanted to see the reaction here.

I am now thinking of getting back out there and singing once again, so you go into the big bad world of auditions etc...it was a song i was thinking of using for that purpose.

people do have reasons....my was reactions and hopefully constructive critiscm...not so much about my voice i can't change that but for help with emotion, pitch perhaps if there were any issues, choice of song and its suitability for me etc.

anyways waffling now hehehe

I, Seby (Syberchick70), hereby swear to always be completely honest when commenting on ANY sub. If it's a "Just for Fun" sub, I promise not to LIE to the person to make them feel better, but will ONLY point out the positives. If it's a Critique sub.... I will give you my opinion on where you can improve, and I will ALWAYS point out positives as well. and NEVER, under ANY circumstances will I ever intentionally hurt someone's feelings, or degrade them.... and I will try my hardest to use the "Up, down, Up" method* that Jazzy taught us a while back. I will NOT be swayed by the Fluffin-willy-nilly-10-hander-outers and will not give someone a 10 if we don't feel it's "perfect"

Like.. duh!!!

I further vow that even getting nasty or negative replies TO such comments, will not prevent me from providing the same feedback to that person, as stated above, in the future. Neither will statements such as "Please don't listen to my subs anymore" will also not discourage me.

muahah...

Nice addition Seby - I'm signing up for that part too! A very useful and valid addition to the charter!


Missy... I completely understand what you are saying, and it highlights my point quite well...

As an 'opponent' of the "Critique Cat", I assume that your subs are placed in the JFF category, which (to me) means that a critique isn't wanted, and just a comment, perhaps about enjoyment, but not improvement, is necessary. Therefore, you are a prime example, because on the (perhaps) rare occasion that you ARE looking for constructive opinions, then you can sub that song into the "C" category, and therefore, the rest of the members will be able to distinguish.

Hopefully that gets my point across.....

Much love to all,

Brett x

I Deb (Debauchery) hereby swear to always be completely honest when commenting on ANY sub. If it's a "Just for Fun" sub, I promise not to LIE to the person to make them feel better, but will ONLY point out the positives. If it's a Critique sub.... I will give you my opinion on where you can improve, and I will ALWAYS point out positives as well. and NEVER, under ANY circumstances will I ever intentionally hurt someone's feelings, or degrade them.... and I will try my hardest to use the "Up, down, Up" method* that Jazzy taught us a while back. I will NOT be swayed by the Fluffin-willy-nilly-10-hander-outers and will not give someone a 10 if we don't feel it's "perfect"

*Further, I will not rank anyway, so some of the above does not apply to me. I also vow that if I don't have something nice to say, I won't say it at all

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I further vow that:
(As long as Crystal, and Rainbow, and Jose, AND SEBY AS WELL AS DEB critique the person first, and I get to see the persons replies. In such a case if the person get's belicose, I quit)


Hey, what can I say ? Just the kind of man I am !

I VOW that if Kappy quits, he's a coward and should be hung, drawn, quartered, burned at the stake and then trampled on by a herd of elephants!

<PERK> Kappy who ?



Yet seriously, the sooner you folks start this plan, the better


Is there a "critiquing" group set up ? Wasn't mention made about such a group existing ? Not sure. Or is this the first of it's type ?

HEY! I already commented on every "C" sub that was submitted since we agreed this! YOU are getting behind!

Brett

You know Brett, I was doing just that too, and my eye's started doing funny things Darn age.....



Let me head over and look at some subs, oh yeah, and be.....UMM.... honest

Well... I am confused... because, every song I do is "just for fun".. because.. i sing for .. Fun.. right? I don't submit them TO be critiqued.. i just like to sing... but, if someone wants to offer advice, or pointers, that is fine too... but, I don't want to be ranked, or given a number.. i don't think I am too fond of that.

Hmm, and what else... ok, i am ALREADY sooo super critical of my OWN subs, and KNOW where all of the errors are... that.. it seems so pointless to get someone ELSE to point them out to me. What I would like, is to know, WHAT i am doing RIGHT... does this makes sense? OR, if kinda right, how I can improve on that, and make it better....

Those who critique, as, i have never BEEN critiqued, unles syou count the times, young girls have said "you suck", can someone give me an example on one of my songs? Steve, will you go and critique the song I posted for Justy, "Near you Always" And show me how you wuld critique it? Crystal, seby? any of you? I would LOVE to post in that category, but, I kinda wanna know what I am in for:) ok, i am babbling, but I blame that liquid cold stuff, that is making me sway, from side to side..... wooo.

Anyways... I was just tryign to say... i am curious what it is all about.

Good night:)

and, i am WAITING, please don't ignore me!

Gilly, what this means to me, is that those who ask for a :critique:, must own up to the fact that they are asking for a critical analysis of what they are submitting, and they shall start receiving honesty on how they did. No sugar-coated nonsense at the expense of withholding their problems as we perceive them.




Gilly, an interesting aspect of the person who "critiques", is that we MUST be willing to also own up to knowing what excedes our own ability. We have a responsibility to NEVER criticise for the sake of sounding critical. I will listen to your song, and it won't be easy for me to critique someone with your level of musical ability. I think you are likely a better musician than I am, and can hear yourself everybit as critically as I'd be able to hear you. Give me a few days, I have a wicked headache today So-far, your submissions excede my ability to offer advice as to how they could be improved. I try to leave my own "style" preferences out've a critique.

What I've heard from you so-far has been professional sounding singing, including the mixing. I'll try to :critique: the song you request us to critique, and I will PM you the truth. (assuming I'm familiar with the genre)

Ya knwo steven.. ANOTHER good point.. is that.. i REALLY don't like certain "vocal types"... And I don't know how to "critique" someone, when i REALLY dislike actually LISTENING to them... Yes, I can point out the flat , or sharp bits, or timing issues, or breathing problems, or phrasing mistakes.. but when vocally, i don't LIKE it... what can i say? I don't want to give examples, as that would be rude, and not nice to the other people, but, i have discussed this with a couple people, like, milo, and seby.

As one example, not many people (me esp.) are fans of nasal, head voices, that lack.. substance. I hear someone submit that, and I think... work on incorporating MORE... more ANYTHING... instead of that plain, boring, sound. but, that IS their voice. Can a person be critiqued on voice alone? AND is it possible to improve something like that? Blah, I am just nosy. but, i know, that i can MAKE myself sound nasal. i can MAKE myself sound deep, and chesty, and rich, and, I can also do a rockier, edgeir grunty, style, or a popish head voice, complete with runs, etc... if i can MAKE myself, change my voice, and still sound alright.. then, can others change their voice for the better? Or, should they, even. Ok, done now:) I suppose, again, it is all subjective to the listener. You may like it, but I don't. And you may like me, or hate me. (but, I already hate me, so, don't think you are being mean:) Sorry, for babbling. please don't tear me apart if I worded something wrong. Iam seriously nonsense today.

Gilly, Have no fear....I'm "shooting from the hip" today...Not critical of discussions


I think what you mention is VERY important. You have given an example of "knowing your own limitations". Hypothetically, How someone who teaches vocals such as Jazzy, would critique say Jason's "Music of the Night" assuming she was PRESENT to watch him is VERY different than how I could critique in here. That takes into consideration a genre I do like. There are MANY factors..

I'd imagine being objective about a style you don't enjoy just takes imagining for a moment that you do enjoy that style. Yet even still, you have to be familiar with it.... Take the Kim Carns song "Betty Davis Eyes", Personally, I think she "sucks" Few will agree with me however. So should I critique that style at all ? She doesn't sound "musicially polished" to me at all. So I'd need help understanding what she's trying to do. I just don't UNDERSTAND her, it excedes my ability perhaps. This get's into another point.... People that critique aren't doing so because they enjoy "dissing" a person by any means. People get paid money to critique for the reasons you mentioned. It takes ALOT of patients, and it's not an easy thing to do.

It takes many people willing to critique, and the person critiquing can't be a "cocky" individual. I am willing to substantiate everybit of a critique I offer, and allow myself to be scrutinized as the critiquer too.

Most importantly there should be ONLY one mission here. To help the person improve.