Karaoke Forums

I've been using Sennheiser E815 microphones for the last few months
(These are the ones that are 3 for $100 not the $200 set). All in all they are a decent sounding quality mic. But after tuning the 5 band eq on the DFX12 and dialing in the BBE362maximizer the MUSIC is kick A$$.
Good clear highs and deep bass ( using my Peavey 1200 and SP5G's)
But the VOCALS don't BITE or CUT thru like I want them to!. It's hard to explain but I'm sure some of you understand what I mean. I've adjusted the channel eq 's and fooled around with differant efx settings and still
OKAY sounding but not WOW GREAT CRYSTAL CLEAR.
I'm wondering if its is the MICROPHONES or could it be some other setting I'm missing. Generally my main 5 band eq on the mixer is
set up like this. (#5 being the bass )
#5 +2
#4 +1
#3 -1
#2 +1
#1 0
I know Lonnie you are shaking your head right about now!
I've tried other settings but these seem to sound the best MUSICALLY .

So will a better MIC ( SHURE SM58 OR THE HIGHER GRADE SENNHEISERS) make the vocals CUT THRU the music or is there other suggestions ?

It is almost impossible to tailor vocals in a karaoke environment simply because you are dealing with 10-30 differeent singers, varous genres and several singing styles. Very few know the proper mic tecniques and most are there just to sing and dont care about perfection.
To apply efx and tailor each singer they have to be added prior to mixing with the music Until one is familiar with the singer it is an experimental process at best. Also with mp3's the music has to be eq,d and 362'd etc before mixing the vocals. And I'm not even going to talk about live acoustics and reverbs in the different venues.
With all that said here is one method to work around these limitations. Run music thru your system such as Martinas Life#9 which has efx abunch. Apply different efx to it and after time you can actually tell which efx were used duing the mixdown. (when youapply or vary the particular effect it doesnt affect it much) Of course they were applied to each instrument and vocl individually . Do this with different genres. Then do this with old recordings with no efx and see what you can do to spice them up. This is essentially what you are trying to do at live shows.. Apply chorus esp to the chourus sections.. Flange or plate those singers with no modulation....
For a couple of examples of my work go to the download page at cabaret-karaoke.com. Of course it really helps to have talent holding the mic

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Um, yeah! Since the main bulk of vocals are in the 1K range, you have that slider pulled 3-6db short of everything else - the typical DJ smile pattern. Yes musically, this sounds ok, but vocally you aren't going to do much better. This is where the DFX series lacking it's midrange on the channel strips really hurts. The only other thing aside from re-eq'ing, turn the bass & treble on the vocal channels down while compensating by turning up the gain. This will in a sense boost the midrange while cutting the bass & treble. Then add treble on the mics to clear them up a bit. Other than this, there isn't much more you can do.

What you may consider is a separate eq for the mics (through the insert point) & adjust those separately - or upgrade to the CFX series

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Lon,
Will an upgrade in MICS help at all?

As far as EQ'ing goes maybe I'm over doing it ? I run my filler/dance/regular music with a Numark CDMIX1 which has its own 3 band (HI MID LOW) EQ on the mixer . I also hook my JVC TRIPLE TRAY into the Numark CDMIX1 channel and that system goes into a channel on the DFX ( not going into tape/cd input) with 2 band EQ. NOw all that goes thru the 5 band main EQ into the Sonic MAximizer .......

If this Saturday I ZERO everything out and start from scratch should I
leave the eq on the cdmix 1 straight up along with the channel eq on the MUSIC and just adjust the MAIN EQ along with the 2 band on the vocal channels? ..Will this give a cleaner mix ?

I doubt that mics will do the trick. The Senns are a pretty hot mic as it is. The 58's are much warmer & would probably sound even more muffled with those particular eq settings.
Don't run the JVC through the Numark, put it on the same mixer as the mics & then as you stated flatline all eq's & start from scratch (make sure you do note all previous settings before you start over). THis way you can still retain the dj music eq & a karaoke eq.

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How do you have the BBE in the sound chain? Do you have it as an insert on the music, a main insert, or other? This can change the overall sound of your system. Try changing where you have it in the sound chain, personally I got the best results from using it as a main insert. Actually once I did that I found that I didn't really even need my eq at all.

The BBE362 is on the overall main mix.

I think it goes -Mackie Mixer Main outs to BBE INputs out to amp inputs
amp outputs to speakers ?

I'll try moving the JVC to the Tape/Cd input of the Mackie and reset and re EQ the set up and see what happens.

One other oddity in my set up is that due to space limitations and a freaking pool table my speakers are stacked 1 on top of another.
I know this is far from an ideal set up . But could this have anything to do with the VOCAL sound? again musically it sounds good.

Could this effect the sound yes & no. It could make the bottom speaker sound muffled however the top speaker should still sound fine. My advice would be to disconnect the bottom speaker and see how just running the top sounds. obviously you will be losing half of your volume but that will give you an answer.

So here;s what I did first thing I did last night when setting up was I replaced my SPEAKER CABLES and my Cables from the mixer to the amp

Flattened all eq's on the main , channels and seperate CDMIX 1 player.
Hook the JVC directly into the CD/TAPE input on the mackie and my regular cd player CDmix1 to another stereo channel. I hit the Bypass switch on the BBE362 . I set the volume for the music to where I thought it would need to be at its loudest (again without any EQ or BBE help.

I did the ole check 1 check 2 with the mics and eq the channels a little bit and then while playing some music adjusted the 5 band mains eq ever so slightly - Not the ususal smile pattern I grew accustomed to. Just a little on the bass and left the mid alone (something I never did )
Then when I kicked in the BBE ..WHOOO!..Sounded bette than It ever and the vocals where crisp and clear. Can't tell if it was the new wires or the readjustment of the eq or both. But it was noticeable better - One of the regulars even asked if I had some new equipment .THANKS YOU GUYS there is a lesson to learned....

Try hooking the JVC into the stereo channel on the Mackie instead of the cd/tape input. You have no music eq control through the cd/tape input nor can you send the music to the monitor. Going through the channel you have at least bass/treble control individually from the overall mix.

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Start with gain structure.

Properly trim your mics at the input to their strip. Get them hot-just short of clip light when singing loudly....Also engage low filters if your mic strips have it. Unnecessary lows in the mics rob their preamps of power for the highs/mids that makes vocals stand out....Re-trim the input if you EQ any mic channel strip twistys.

Consider inserting your outboard EQ on the strip your player feeds, and not the overall mix...Then you can wear a grin on it if you must without hurting the vocals....If your stereo strips don't have inserts, then bring the player in thru two mono channels with inserts....just pan them left/right as required and trim their inputs just like you would a mic.

One benifit of inserting the EQ is that the EQ stays hot at it's input, it is not attenuated at it's input like it would be if you patched it in after the board masters on the board outs. A hot EQ works like it should....If it has channel LEDS, you will finally see them dance no matter what the master volume level is.....that's when you know it's working and you will hear the diff. The EQ is getting true line level input from the player and all you then need do it adjust EQ output gain to compensate for total cuts/boosts.

On your mixer, slide masters to unity and leave them there. Then bring player and mic strips up to appropriate levels of loudness...Never have a strip slider higher than the masters or your board gain structure will be screwed all the way thru the board. You board contains a series of amps. Those amps need a properly trimmed input to deliver a clean output to the next amp in the chain...So learn the gain chain and structure it properly.

You played with it and heard a big diff, now patch it up properly, trim the gains properly and you will really hear a diff. Your singers will kiss you.