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Decent mike but cheap home machine? https://mail.karaokescene.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3988 |
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Author: | Foxe [ Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:06 am ] |
Post subject: | Decent mike but cheap home machine? |
Hey got a question for anyone out there that's "in the know"... I have a $50 Radio Shack Mic (gold ends - those are supposed to be better right?) using it with an inexpensive Singing Machine karaoke machine. It seems like I've always had trouble getting a clear vocal sound out of the mic, even when I was using $10 mic's with the machine and still now with the little bit more expensive Radio Shack mic. When I record I connect that machine to my USB SoundBlaster card on my laptop using RCA jacks. My mic is still into my karaoke machine. No matter how I record, whether I have the audio file already on my laptop and multi-track record or just record audio and vocal as one track right from the karaoke machine I'm having trouble getting a clear vocal sound. When I record... If I turn the volume of the mic up on the karaoke machine - then I get distortion but even if I turn it down it still sounds somewhat distorted. Is starting to remind me of Charlie Brown's mom (Waw-waw-wa-wa). When using an inexpensive karaoke machine like that is it ever going to matter on the actual quality of the mic or is the machine just going to limit how the mic sounds anyway? I've been lookin at getting a JVC 303 to use instead of the machine. Will this help quality? OR - should I be looking for a different sound card? If so, do you know of any good ones that are USB - keep in mind I'm using a laptop... Thanks in advance... |
Author: | Tony [ Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:57 am ] |
Post subject: | |
FoxeRoxy, pesonally I am against your recording technique. I would suggest you get a small mixer so that you can plug in your mic and karaoke machine on their own, and then the output of the mixer goes to your soundcard. That way you can set your mic according your liking, as well as the karaoke machine. You can get yourself a Behringer Eurorack UB802 Mixer from Guitar Center for $50- |
Author: | Foxe [ Tue Jan 25, 2005 9:13 am ] |
Post subject: | |
thanks for the info AllStar -- I did what I had available to me at the time -- I'm still learning... I do really like that idea just was never sure of exactly what I should be looking for. How tough is a mixer to operate? I'm technology minded but just do not have a lot of time right now for learning curves... Just curious if it's as simple as you've made it sound. Anybody have any other suggestions that I could consider? Or any feedback on the JVC 303? (My karaoke machine is a 3 CD tray and I like that functionality, that's why I really haven't been lookin at a JVC22.) |
Author: | Tony [ Tue Jan 25, 2005 9:54 am ] |
Post subject: | |
FoxeRoxy wrote: How tough is a mixer to operate? I'm technology minded but just do not have a lot of time right now for learning curves... Just curious if it's as simple as you've made it sound.
What does a Mixer actually do? A mixer allows you to balance, position, effect and equalize its different audio channels into a good sounding sonic image that we call a mix. You can add effects to some channels but not others, position instruments to a location in the stereo field, route channels to outboard gear that produces an interesting effect and "sculpt" the sound of each channel with a dedicated equalizer where you can vary the bass, treble and mid range in such a way that the whole song "gels" into a work of beauty. Here's the simplest computer-based setup, using a standard stereo soundcard: Plug the sound sources (microphones, DI for electric guitar or bass, outputs from MIDI synths) into the appropriate inputs on your mixing board. Plug the mixer's stereo line-level Main Outputs (L-R) into the LINE IN of the computer's sound card/audio interface. Some mixers have a 2-Track output in addition to the Main Outs. Either one can be used, though in most mixers only the Main Outs are controlled by the Main Out output level fader. Plug the LINE OUT from the computer's sound card into a line-level stereo input (or pair of channel inputs) on your mixing board. Be careful not to set up a feedback loop by routing the output of your soundcard through the mixer back to the soundcard's input! It helps to use a mixer with an ALT3/4 output, which routes the signal from a mixer channel with the MUTE switch engaged to a separate set of outputs from the mixer. This can be used as a Record Enable switch for whichever channels you want to record. You'll be able to monitor the ALT3/4 outputs by switching them to be heard through the MAIN OUT L/R on the mixer (read your mixer's owner's manual for info). Another way to wire up a small mixer to a soundcard is to use the AUX SEND's as recording outputs to the soundcard's LINE IN. This gives you level control on each channel to be recorded. Set the AUX SEND's to Post Fader if you want to be able to record your insert effects and/or EQ along with the source. Plug the mixer's Control Room (or Monitor) outputs into a pair of line-level inputs on your stereo amplifier or powered speakers. (Typical line-level inputs on a home stereo receiver will be labeled "CD," "AUX" or "TUNER"). To record a track to the computer, enable the soundcard's LINE IN as the recording input in your recording software. Assign the outputs from your recording software to the soundcard's LINE OUT. There are some (more expensive) computer audio interfaces that come with mic inputs and mixing controls built in. If you have one of these, you should contact their tech support for advice on how to set up your studio with their product. Here's a quick overview of the process of making a multitrack audio production for distribution on Audio CD: Tracking: Record basic tracks onto hard disk. As you go, you'll make a working mix, often called a "rough mix.". You'll use this rough mix as a "guide track" for the performers to play along with, as additional tracks are added to the production. Overdubbing: Record additional tracks over (and in synch with) the original tracks, while listening to ("monitoring") the rough mix, as desired. Editing: Once all the basic tracks are recorded, you can edit those tracks, if desired. This is where pitch-correction is applied to vocals, wrong notes are replaced with "right" ones, "comp" tracks are created out of multiple takes, etc. The editing stage is where the computer-based DAW can really strut its stuff — edits can be performed with 'copy and paste' ease and precision. Mixdown: Add effects, perform last-minute edits, make tonal adjustments to individual tracks or groups of tracks ("equalization" or "EQ"), adjust levels of tracks, add reverb or delay effects, place tracks in the stereo field ("panning"), etc. Once everything sounds like you want it to, you record the playback from the multiple tracks (with all your edits, levels, effects, panning, etc.) onto a new stereo pair of tracks. This is the "final mix." Mastering: Once you have a collection of selections mixed down to stereo, you will want to begin the assembly of the final CD (what we used to call an "album"). You'll want to make sure each selection sounds in character with the rest (similar tonal balance, amount and type of compression, reverb levels, etc.) and that the selections are of appropriate relative loudness (the soft tunes aren't so quiet compared to the loud tunes that you need to adjust the volume between selections). At this point, many people will add a few final EQ tweaks and a final pass through a "mastering limiter." Then you'll want to make the CD layout, with appropriate silences between selections, etc. Then you burn the final CD (the CD "master"), and your production is done. |
Author: | ritisroo [ Tue Jan 25, 2005 10:46 am ] |
Post subject: | |
I have a "Singing Machine" karaoke system at home as well....not an expensive one....one we got at Best Buy for about $200.00. It has a built in screen....and looks like a regular karaoke machine. I have that very same problem with the volume. It drives me crazy. I have tried many different mics....and I get the same thing. I can never get the volume levels where I want them. The machine also does not do a good job with a lot of bass...or treble...and there is nothing to fix it. My other karaoke machine I had was great for volume...except it could not play CD's, only casettes, which is why I got this one. I just got a mixer....and I love it! I can finally hear myself sing...and monitor myself....and it is making real nice recordings....well....on my end...and from what people told me. It is real easy to hook up, and with a helper like Allstar, you should not have any problesm |
Author: | Foxe [ Tue Jan 25, 2005 12:44 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Thanks so much to both of you! Roo -- I have an even cheaper Singing Machine than you do - no screen and paid like $80 or so for it from HSN I think . Right away I just so excited to be able to record that I didn't care but now that I'm getting the hanging of recording now I want it to sound better - - one thing leads to another! Ya know what I'm talking about! AllStar - that information was fabulous & I oh so appreciate your taking time to help me out, especially after our little run in last week OK - I took the plunge and ordered one at noon today so now I'm pumped and have to wait for delivery.... I love the Internet cuz I'm zillions of miles away from anywhere that has anything... BUT... the waiting for delivery drives me INSANE..... OH well - it's kind of a good thing I suppose since I have a ton of school work this week plus I should really catch up on housework, etc. ! The karaoke thing really has me addicted... |
Author: | Micky [ Tue Jan 25, 2005 3:00 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
I don't understand why someone would want to record the music from an outside source The only think that should come from the outside is the vocal and using Allstar's method! The music (backing) should be extracted from the cd into a wave file and of course if your sound card allows it, go 24 bit/192khz, all new SB Audigy2 family will accept that format. In my opinion, just IMPOSSIBLE to get good results when recording the music coming from a cdg player such as the JVC. Gold plated versus the standard silver? Make sure both connectors Male & Female are identical, NEVER use a gold male connector with a silver female connector, you will get bad results! Most low end retailers like RS will tell you it's better but the reality is, it's only MARKETING!! Also, I would recommend to stay away from Radio Shack if sound quality is what you are looking for, you can get MUCH better products in a Pro store for less $$$ |
Author: | Foxe [ Tue Jan 25, 2005 3:12 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Micky wrote: The only think that should come from the outside is the vocal and using Allstar's method! The music (backing) should be extracted from the cd into a wave file and of course if your sound card allows it, go 24 bit/192khz, all new SB Audigy2 family will accept that format. I've started doing that now on some songs but having trouble with something somewhere that it's hijacking my vocals and really throwing them off in the multitrack that it starts out matching the backing then WHAM speeds up... Micky wrote: In my opinion, just IMPOSSIBLE to get good results when recording the music coming from a cdg player such as the JVC. There are times that I need the words scrolling and I can't find the program that most people were talkin about before "editCDG" I think... the site is now for sale and I've looked other places but no results yet.Micky wrote: Gold plated versus the standard silver? Make sure both connectors Male & Female are identical, NEVER use a gold male connector with a silver female connector, you will get bad results! Most low end retailers like RS will tell you it's better but the reality is, it's only MARKETING!! So...hmm... I'm going to get bad results no matter what? What color are the connectors on that mixer that AllStar recommended? Micky wrote: Also, I would recommend to stay away from Radio Shack if sound quality is what you are looking for, you can get MUCH
better products in a Pro store for less $$$ - well if I had better stores than Radio Shack to select from I'd do that but I live in never land where "real" stores "never" like to step foot. I'd love to live in a real place but it doesn't look like it's happening soon I buy a lot of stuff on the Net but I wanted to actually physically handle a mic to decide if I thought it was worth it or not. Actually RS offered very little comments when I bought it -- the guy was kind of a dork and didn't know squat about anything it seemed like. |
Author: | Tony [ Tue Jan 25, 2005 3:51 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Quote: There are times that I need the words scrolling and I can't find the program that most people were talkin about before "editCDG" I think... the site is now for sale and I've looked other places but no results yet. Get Karawin, it's free and delicious! Do a google search for Karawin! Quote: So...hmm... I'm going to get bad results no matter what? What color are the connectors on that mixer that AllStar recommended? Silver Quote: Actually RS offered very little comments when I bought it -- the guy was kind of a dork and didn't know squat about anything it seemed like.
Yep, you were at the famous RS store! |
Author: | Micky [ Tue Jan 25, 2005 4:22 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Karawin is a great suggestion AllStar! If you get Karawin Pro it well let you read a cdg directly from the cd-rom with a cdg compatible drive, it will let you change the key on the fly even when reading from the cd-rom drive and most important, it will let you record your session from What You hear, Line In, Mic In... I often use this software to record my vocal only and than I use Audacity to combine my vocal track with music track This software uses the Bass Audio Engine, you CAN'T get a better sound than that, believe me |
Author: | Foxe [ Tue Jan 25, 2005 8:21 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
'K -I got Karawin and it's cool lookin... Now I'll have to do some playin when that Mixer gets here.. I'll have to figure out how to work that along with Audition to multitrack.. Oh geez.. Am I gonna have any hair left when I'm done? Someone plz tell me it's easy OK? Just once I want something easy. AllStar -- are you sure you don't have any pull with UPS? |
Author: | Tony [ Wed Jan 26, 2005 5:32 am ] |
Post subject: | |
Foxy, It's easy Grl. Sit back, relax and if you have any problems, just let us know. There are a lot of people here with good tips. |
Author: | Foxe [ Mon Jan 31, 2005 12:58 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
ummmm.. Me again... OK. that mixer suggested above arrived today. Mic is plugged into Mic1 jack, now I'm confused. Where do I plug my karaoke machine into? My karaoke machine has RCA jacks and the only thing resembling an RCA end is the Tape In. Am I going to need some different cords too? agggggg.... |
Author: | ml_texas [ Mon Jan 31, 2005 1:14 pm ] |
Post subject: | Microphones |
I am not sure about the quality of recording on a computer but I have had a lot of experience in using microphones live on stage with full bands as well as with doing karaoke. I have also dealt with microphones in studio situations (not computer recording). I can tell you first hand, that even if the radio shack mic has gold ends, you are not going to get what you are looking for. You need a good vocal mic. The radio shack mic, even though they advertize it as a good mic to sing with, really is only going to be adequate at best for speech. I dont mean to put your mic down but in truth, you actually get what you pay for. The best you could have would be a condenser mic with phantom power (this you will need a mixer for that has phantom power accessibility) You can use a good Sure SM58 (my choice of mics) or any good quality mic. Sure has some that cost around $45 to $50 dollars that will give you good, clean performance both in recording and in live performance. I would suspose that recording on a computer would be no different than any other application. I agree with one of your posts before mine, you do need a good mixer to run everything through first, then things should sound really good. Hope that helps some.--Mike |
Author: | Foxe [ Mon Jan 31, 2005 1:18 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
OK - we're skipping the mic stuff cuz I realize that but I have what I have at this point. Anyway --- my question now is.. I have the mixer and the mic is plugged in but I don't know how/where to plug in my karaoke machine and am I going to need new cords to do this See my last post above... Thanks! |
Author: | Micky [ Mon Jan 31, 2005 1:35 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Hi Foxy, Glad you got your mixer, let's see if I can help you Connecting the player: You'll need a cable with male rca at one end and 1/4 inch male stereo at the other end or use a standard rca cable with both male connectors at each end and just get two adapter to convert rca to 1/4 inch, you will use Line 3 if you have two mic inputs or the next line in right after the mic inputs. Connecting the mixer to computer: Now that you have your cdg player connected to the mixer, you'll need to send the signal to the computer, will you be using the effects from the computer like EAX or from an outside source? Let's say you'll be using from the computer: Connect the AUX SEND from the mixer to Line In on the audio card, take note that you'll need a Male 1/4 inch MONO to 1/8 male stereo and connect the AUX Returns L & R to the Line Out on the audio card, you'll need a cable that has two male 1/4 inch on one end to a 1/8 male stereo at the other end. All these cables should be available at RS for little $$$ Hope this helps |
Author: | ml_texas [ Mon Jan 31, 2005 1:36 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Depending on the mixer, some mixers have RCA jacks labeled "tape in" and "Tape out". If you do, then go from your karaoke player to the RCA jacks labeled "tape in." If you do not have these jacks (they are usually in the master section of your mixer) you can choose a channel to plug into. You will need to convert the RCA jack on one end to 1/4 mono plug. (radio shack does make adaptors to do this for couple of bucks each). Then, say for instance your mixer has 8 channels for microphones. You can plug one of the 1/4 mono plugs into the microphone inputs for channel 7 then plug the other into the microphone inputs of channel 8. You then have to use the sliders or volume nobs for both channel 7 and channel 8 to provide volume from the karaoke machine to the speakers or in your case, the computer. make sure that you turn the gain knobs (usually at the top of each channel) to "line" if you can or at least down to where you do not get distortion on the player. You can run the player volume at a lower volume and get good sound. Hope this makes sense and helps you out.--Mike |
Author: | Foxe [ Mon Jan 31, 2005 1:46 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
ml_texas wrote: Depending on the mixer, some mixers have RCA jacks labeled "tape in" and "Tape out". If you do, then go from your karaoke player to the RCA jacks labeled "tape in."
Yep I have that "tape in" it's the only input that will take an RCA end. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Hey Micky! Thx for that info too.. I was startin to really feel like a "dumb girl" (I have my days when I'm smarter and today apparently isn't one of those days, my brain processor is workin slow today - ) Aggg.. I'm excited to use the dumb mixer and RS is quite a ways away, I'll have to do some investigating to see if maybe I can dig up cords somehow, otherwise, dang just gonna have to make another trip out of town.. Now that's just heart breaking -- NOT! |
Author: | Micky [ Mon Jan 31, 2005 1:49 pm ] |
Post subject: | |
Your new mixer probably has some XLR connection for the Mic inputs? If that's the case, I suggest you buy this type of cable instead of using the low quality cable you were using with your cdg player, even if you connect the best Microphone using your old cable, you'll still get bad signal BTW, I personaly don't recommend buying the SM-58 if you plan to do good recording, it's an old mic that is just over rated, it's a good mic for live because it solid & it has low sensitivity so less feedback, get the Audio Technica ATM41HE for $10,00 more versus the sm-58 and it's just day & night!! If you have a low budget, the PG-58 from Shure will give you much better results than ANY RS for the same price. |
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