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I'm basking in the confusion people........
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Author:  Charmin_Gibson [ Wed Jan 12, 2005 4:04 pm ]
Post subject:  I'm basking in the confusion people........
I have seen tons of people who want "honest" critisism. That's cool. I have seen plenty who don't want any- that's cool too.

But to those dishing it out...... I think you are leaving alot of confusion behind you. I have seen the phrase "pitchy spots" or "pitch problems" used over~and over~and over.....etc. Or saying "a few flat spots here & there. "

Do you ever think maybe you leave those people wondering WHERE the pitch problems are??? Because others (MANY OTHERS) who listen behind you are NOT hearing them. And- NO- it doesn't boil down to who is "pro" and who's not. That's boloney. There are plenty of great singers on here who are not pro in any way and can hear pitch errors when they are there. I think some want to critique so bad that they are making up things to say....... and "pitch problems" seems to be the newest SS slang.

It seems that has just gotten to be a popular term to use on here.......... like "fashizzel ma nizzle" or whatever the heck it was that had all the younguns sounding like idiots a few months back. It's the newest word of choice for all the "critique-pros".

I have not had this comment myself- I never ask for critique- but some who don't are getting those comments anyhow. And I've seen plenty of them. If I WERE to ask for a critique and rank......I think I would say "Be specific......tell me what WORDS in what VERSE or CHORUS exactly....and are they SHARP or FLAT."

Truth is........ I don't think alot can, because alot of those "pitch problems" being mentioned are simply not there. So those of you that realllllllly hear them......point them out.

Another famous phrase....."You're not using your diaphragm"........ that is such an undefined comment. And you really can't tell that if you're not watching the person sing. Someone's chest voice may be as nasaly sounding as anothers head voice.......that's an individual thing. Not something you can judge by Jane Doe vs. John Doe. Unless you are extremely familiar with a person's vocals you can't tell that.

I'm just saying this........If you are REALLY trying to help people out with constructive critisism........ don't leave them in the dark- be more specific. And for crying out loud- everyone wanted the options changed- quit giving it to those who sub "just for fun" unless they ask for it.

Okay- bad guys and trouble makers- I'm wide open here........and trust me "sticks and stones" and all that garbage........ I would be the LAST person who you would get to leave with snide remarks & comments. But- even though I am only speaking my mind and do not want a flame war........... I smell one coming, or god help me- this is not the SS karaoke forum. :wink:
Author:  Tigrr27 [ Wed Jan 12, 2005 4:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
makes perfect sense to me and not too much to ask for... I am sure that surprised ya LOL - tig
Author:  Phill Cross [ Wed Jan 12, 2005 4:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
<< Throwing Sticks & Stones >> :D j/k

Good Points, if you are going to critique, provide exact references where it occured and where they can improve.

I don't know how to properly critique but I think I can at least tell someone where they went wrong on a song.

Even if I couldn't tell on my own songs until after I listen. Then I just cringe...

PHILL
Author:  Charmin_Gibson [ Wed Jan 12, 2005 4:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
Tiggr27----Nah- you didn't surprise me.......... you seem like a common sense kinda person. And if you read closely- I flamed NOBODY........ I didn't even get rude. That wasn't my point.

I just think asking people to elaborate a little is a fair request. I have spoken to many who feel the same way....and I've seen it in repleis to comments.

Just making a point........ but I still smell the storm coming. hahaha. :wink:
Author:  Charmin_Gibson [ Wed Jan 12, 2005 4:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
Owwwww..................Philllllllllll..............I'm telling.

See, I'm a nice person, huh?!? So - you were here- you saw it- so when/if it turns ugly here.......remember IT WASN'T ME!!!!!!!

TY Phil. I think anyone who wants critique would appreciate people realllllyyy helping rather than leaving a vague comment.

And that's why you gave us all that extra typing room in the comment box!!!!!!
Author:  Charmin_Gibson [ Wed Jan 12, 2005 4:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
Oh- and if anyone IS gonna start bashing me- don't know why ya would but I'm sure SOMEONE will- - - I probably wont be on here much tonight....... so don't beat me too bad behind my back...... wait till I can come back in the morning & stick up for myself.


And..........don't get too carried away and get Phil to delete this before I can come back & read it all.

Phil- Turn your back on this thread until I'm on again tomorrow, okay??

Who knows- maybe we'll just all have a nice, grown up discussion if anyone else comes in. Ya think maybe?? :newlol:
Author:  Tigrr27 [ Wed Jan 12, 2005 4:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
well charmin if someone gets offended for simply asking for clarification of their critique or to give a location of the problem in the song so the subber can re-evaluate their song and actually LISTEN for the "supposed" problem... I think you are right that many "problems" are simply way too much effort to critique... you don't have to be pavarotti to be able to critique but you also don't have to strain to find a problem to critique JUST to be able to critique... something as simple as a person's accent may cause vocal inflections that may come across as "pitchy" or a "problem" in a sub... can't please everyone all the time and I am sure that most will get over it... or not... - tig
Author:  ardis [ Wed Jan 12, 2005 4:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
i had no clue this was such a big issue....

from now on i won't just put, you had a few rough patches but did great...

i will clearly outline everything...

eeperz, i hope i didn't have too many people worrying about where they went wrong and all. :oops:
Author:  Charmin_Gibson [ Wed Jan 12, 2005 4:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
Tiggr27- Ya see, you get exactly what I mean. If someone wants a critique- but performance wise (pitch, timing, etc) there are no problems to be named..... people are just saying " I heard a few pitch errors" to have SOMETHING to say. And sometimes they are not really there.

So by being specific, I think it will let ya know if people are giving honest "honest critique". No poker faces allowed that way, if ya know what I mean.

Don't get me wrong- alot of times there ARE pitch problems- lord knows I have them ALOT with my slippin' and slidin' in & out of notes like I do. But- when & if someone tells me that...... I wanna say WHERE???? So that I know and can improve.

It can be helpful...... but it needs to stop being an overused term.

ardis~ you must be new here....... it's not a BIG issue...... you haven't been here long enough to know of all the controversy over "to critique or not critique"....... now everyone is getting "critique happy", even bringing in their digging equipment sometimes- and I just thought I would make a point on behalf of those who are getting critiques- but empty ones.
I wouldn't go getting all drastic on people- maybe point out what you hear- for those that WANT it...... but if your gonna really get to digging, maybe ask their permission to email them. Some may be okay with that- but some may not. It's gonna vary with people- but make sure they wannt critique before ya give it. We have a new option to sub "Just For Fun" and those people DO NOT want critiiques. On the flip side- if you sub a song for critique- be prepared to get what ya get- it may not all be truthful- good or bad.

It really pays off to be here "Just For Fun"........ things are alot smoother that way.
Author:  knightshow [ Wed Jan 12, 2005 4:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
when I've tried to explain to people of a problem I heard in their submission, I try to say "at the beginning of the 2nd refrain" or something like that.

I agree... if you're going to offer criticism, make it intelligent criticism!
Author:  Tigrr27 [ Wed Jan 12, 2005 5:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
BTW- love the new pic Charmin... - tig
Author:  Charmin_Gibson [ Wed Jan 12, 2005 5:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
Knightshow- THAT'S WHAT I MEAN!!!!!

It would make sooooo much more sense if everyone would just DO that.

Tig- Thank you. :)
Author:  Tigrr27 [ Wed Jan 12, 2005 5:04 pm ]
Post subject: 
oh sure knightshow... jump on the bandwagon LOL.. you follower... LMAO... common sense is universal I guess... or I should hope... - tig
Author:  MortenN [ Wed Jan 12, 2005 5:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
Bluestainedshoes,

very well articulated. You sound like I person I would like to receive a critique from when I start submitting again.

Even if you don't want to be critiqued yourself, please don't keep all the good ideas for yourself.

You are absolutely right, a statement like you were "pitchy in spots" is pretty much as useful as "you sux".

Cheers,

Morten
Author:  MortenN [ Wed Jan 12, 2005 5:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
double post
Author:  Micky [ Wed Jan 12, 2005 5:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
BlueStainedShoes wrote:
Oh- and if anyone IS gonna start bashing me- don't know why ya would but I'm sure SOMEONE will- - - I probably wont be on here much tonight....... so don't beat me too bad behind my back...... wait till I can come back in the morning & stick up for myself.


And..........don't get too carried away and get Phil to delete this before I can come back & read it all.

Phil- Turn your back on this thread until I'm on again tomorrow, okay??

Who knows- maybe we'll just all have a nice, grown up discussion if anyone else comes in. Ya think maybe?? :newlol:


Feel free to critique any of my subs, you honestly know what you're talking about! And, I wouldn't mind seeing this picture in one of my sub :wink:
Author:  Gilly [ Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well, I for the first time EVER allowed one of my subs to be critiqued/ranked... and.. didn't get a critique! Darn it! mY first ever too! I have never even GIVEN someone a rank before...


BLue, I agree with you, and have b**tched about the same "lingo" a million times, in private:) However, I don't critique... unless asked personally, specifically for one.... but, "pitchy?" is NOT helpful... well, unless the WHOLE thing was up and down ALL the way through.. then, pitchy. well, sort of makes sense... but wait... gramatically... pitchy could ALSO mean, you WERE on pitch....like wow, you were really pitchy there....but, ON pitch.

BLah, blah blah. Yes, I am bored.
Author:  ardis [ Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
Gilly wrote:
. then, pitchy. well, sort of makes sense... but wait... gramatically... pitchy could ALSO mean, you WERE on pitch....like wow, you were really pitchy there....but, ON pitch.

BLah, blah blah. Yes, I am bored.


Your never going to please everyone with a review which uses any such terms. Even if you do explain, if your review is negative someone is going to get angry about it and this whole topic will come up again.

I don't understand why people can't just take the word pitchy and derive their own meaning from it. If you love to sing, it won't matter what lingo or statement another person makes. And we all must remember there are people out there who live to flame! That's what they do. They flame up the boards and thats how it goes.

All I can say about it is try and watch what your write, but overall, enjoy your music and the experience, and ignore all the jerks who say you are pitchy or not, cause if we continue to go on, they will just change it from pitchy to pitchy with a B. lol

I like your points, its all good, but your still gonna get some meanies out there.

Wuvs yah allz! :D
Author:  ardis [ Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
I just realized how rude my last post seems, and i don't mean it that way at all. And I know I may be new here, but i just wanted to express what i felt towards the topic.

:D peace ya'll
Author:  syberchick70 [ Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well ok, time to get my throat torn out I guess (buckles on spiked collar).

I try to be specific on my critiques. I never say anything as simple as 'that sucked', I try to mention specific problems. Sometimes, when there are truly only a 'couple' of flat spots, I'll say what word & where.

To be honest, most of the time when I say 'pitch problems', it's because there were too many to easily list, but I can certainly do that if I am asked to. For example, not to pick on slanoue, but I just did that for one of her subs (totally by coincidence - I had not yet seen this thread, but she asked me for specifics on where she was off-pitch).

I realize that much of this is aimed at me... and the fact that more people started saying subs were 'pitchy' after I did. I have never, to this point (although I don't listen to all the subs so I may have missed this), heard a sub where someone says the sub had pitch problems... in some form or other... when the sub did NOT in fact have them.

I don't think it's so much a problem of people 'looking for something to critique'. That's utter silliness. When I hear a 'perfect' sub, I always say so. When I hear a sub that isn't perfect, but I don't have the knowledge to figure out why (and the person want's critiques), I just don't comment (or rank)... other than the few exceptions where I have plainly stated 'something wrong but I can't pin it down' or whatever.

This sounds more like a case of folks who don't want to admit they have problems when they do. I don't have a problem NOT critiquing subs that don't ask for it. I don't do that, unless I have something really positive to say (and technically, I shouldn't do that either since critiquing means pointing out the good along with the bad, but I do it anyway cause no one EVER complains about getting positive critiques).

The thing with my hubby writing Missy was simply because he doesn't stay up on all of this political stuff in the forums & he didn't realize the 'Just for Fun' = 'No Critiques' rule. If Missy had simply replied to him and said she wasn't interested in his advice, she would not have heard another word from him. He doesn't like to waste his time on people who aren't interested.

A person has to realize that if a song is just generally 'off pitch', it becomes very difficult to go through and give a note-by-note critique. At some point, we do have to be able to hear when we're WAY off, and lots of times I generalize on pitch because I'm sure the singer must be able to hear it themselves on play-back... but I could be wrong. I don't think there are many 'tone-deaf' people in SS, but if I'm wrong and they want specific note-by-note details, I'll try to break it down for them.

Now just to clarify... I DO NOT by any stretch think slanoue is 'tone-deaf'... her 'off-pitch' spots were not off by much, just enough to notice if your ear is used to listening for it. For some reason, it's harder to hear our own off-pitch notes (especially when they're not off by much... like 1/2 a tone or less), so I can sympathise. I DO try to help, not feel 'important'.
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