Karaoke Forums

Howdy all, I'm James. I've been singing karaoke forever, and over time have accumulated a bunch of tracks, and a sound system, etc. So I talked to a restaurant owner, who has a back room that he wants to develop into a bar, and we talked about me hosting a karaoke show once a week for beer and food. I'm ok with that, I have a good job, karaoke is just a hobby for me, and he's a friend, and I'd like to see him grow his business.

So, having said all that, what's the best way to get started doing this legally. None of the tracks I have are legal. I've seen some subscription stuff, but I don't know anything about the quality. I don't mind spending a few hundred dollars a month on this, even though I'm not going to get paid. Like I said, it's just a hobby, and we discussed that if the bar gets going, he might end up paying me. I'm not trying to make any money though.

All you veterans, what are your thoughts on subscriptions, sound choice licensing, etc, to get started? Also, what about filler music? If I buy all my filler music from I-tunes am I covered legally? Like I said, I don't mind spending a few hundred a month if that's the way to go.

Thank you all for your input.

Start with not using any of your illegal tracks.
2nd - make sure the club knows THEY are responsible to pay the performance rights fees (PRO fees) to all three organizations ie ASCAP/BMI/SESAC. This goes for whether they are paying you or not, doesn't matter. In most situations (TV, Radio, DJ, Bands, Dance floor, other streaming services, etc) they need to pay these fees, karaoke is just a small tack on fee to those existing fees. Bars can and have been sued for copyright infringement - worst case scenario - loss of THEIR license and legal costs/fees/judgements.

Streaming services - eh, not a big fan, I like to have possession of tracks I purchased, that way if a song that is normally sang nightly suddenly gets it's licensing pulled, it's no longer available via streaming, but I still have the track. That being said
http://www.partytymeplayer.com/partytym ... ge_id=2345 - probably the only 'fully legal and authorized' for KJ use streaming service. 11,000 tracks. $99-139 per month depending on whether you use their player or not.

Your filler music (and anything else played in the bar) is ONLY covered if the bar are paying the PRO fees.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

If you are an accomplished vocalist then front a band. It will be more rewarding. Everything legal will be on the venue and not you.

Karaoke hosting is NOT Cheap!

Karaoke is a piss ant industry fraught with litigation. Actually anything pertaining to the music industry is surrounded by attorneys salivating
with anticipation of feeding off those making less. If you are making nothing then ..................why?

Had I known about all of the issues before I invested so much in equipment for retirement I would have chosen digging weeds for a living.

I am good at what I do and have a large following because I am attentive to each song style for mix and to each singer. If it were not for
the compliments from truly accomplished singer/vocalists and professional performers I'd leave it behind and make way more mowing lawns 5 months out of the year.

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You can never argue with a crazy mi-mi-mi-mi-mi-mind ----B. Joel
I have great faith in fools; My friends call it self-confidence ---- E.A. Poe
I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity ----E.A. Poe
I don't know, I don't care, and it doesn't make any difference! ----A. Einstein
Double bubble, toil and trouble ----W. Shakespeare & Walt Disney
I hate it when I get on FaceBook ----Me
Karaoke might be Groundhog Day ----?
Of All the Martial Arts, Karaoke Inflicts the Most Pain ----?

I am not so sure that any one of us on this site is truly legal beyond the scope of some law somewhere and some attorney anywhere.
I do not care how careful you may be. There are ?s about Copyright and Karaoke, not just Trademark and Karaoke. Is any one of us safe?

Besides, working for free or even less than what it is truly worth harms the other hosts in the community. There are those that resorted to piracy in order to compete. (If you can't beat 'em, then join 'em). Before I entered this market the hosts I knew were making as much as a band would. Now many are making $100-$175 a night because of piracy. Some markets may be more, but not here because of it. In my estimation you will be part of the problem for other hosts when word gets out to other bar owners that there is a bar getting it for free.

Bartenders and servers make at least as much and usually more than I do even when I add in my tips on the nights I am there. Then, to know their only investment is in the clothes on their backs when they walked in, while my investment is substantial, can be disheartening when money is equivalent to the appreciation of the efforts on my part. Only once in 6 years have I had a Bartender tip me out and I am the reason people are there and I am the reason people remain there, so that they get tipped.

I swear digging weeds, mowing lawns, tending to bushes and plants are looking pretty good as a side line in retirement. At least those things are always sober.

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You can never argue with a crazy mi-mi-mi-mi-mi-mind ----B. Joel
I have great faith in fools; My friends call it self-confidence ---- E.A. Poe
I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity ----E.A. Poe
I don't know, I don't care, and it doesn't make any difference! ----A. Einstein
Double bubble, toil and trouble ----W. Shakespeare & Walt Disney
I hate it when I get on FaceBook ----Me
Karaoke might be Groundhog Day ----?
Of All the Martial Arts, Karaoke Inflicts the Most Pain ----?

Our Party Tyme Pro player can store the entire library of 12,000 HD tracks (including Latin) so it does not need to be online at all times. It is 100% legal and licensed for commercial use. We add new songs to the library every week and produce requests where possible. The player is a one time cost of 399.99 and the service is also being incorporated into Kjams, PCDJ and MTU Hoster which will allow the same type of usage. The new site to see the player and service is http://www.partytyme.pro.

And If a mod can pm me with what we need to do to be a sponsor of the forum, we are ready to sign up

While your player might be good for people starting out, it will make every single song that was bought before getting your player obsolete and a waste of time and money spent to aquire those songs. Personally, I would rather have the Karaoke Version produced tracks of certain songs than the Party Tyme because they are truer to the original artist's version. But that's just my opinion.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

Well... I will once again bring up the obvious. Why offer your services for little to absolutely NO money? You're going to purchase this karaoke investment and gain nothing in return? And you're ok with that?

When you first timers get into this business and agree to host for 4 hours at zero dollars it absolutely destroys Karaoke as a viable business. Would you tend bar for a beer tab? Or wait tables for fours hours for a happy meal? It saddens me to see people denigrate themselves into thinking this course of action is somehow an acceptable form of OJT.

You, my friend, are a bar owner's DREAM!!

Happy trails!

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Sound Choice and Chartbuster Certified

I think most streaming services are geared more toward the newbie or kj that's wants to start another system without the expense of trying to purchase a full library. Obviously those who have been in business for years most likely won't need a service like this as they probably have most of the tracks already. For those starting out or needing a library for a new system(s), $99 a month is hardly a make or break price as you are most likely going to make that back in your first show. When the program locks up or has to buffer (ie Karafun) when i'm trying it out at home says something that what everyone else has already stated (that i've seen in other shows that use it and many others have seen and experienced the same) that the program is probably not worth using professionally. Home use - GREAT, no one to impress.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

The OP is someone who is just starting out and doesn't own a legal library. As far as manufacturer preference, everyone is entitled to their opinion. We get great feedback for our productions and requested tracks that we produce for the KJ's. And unlike KV, we specifically state that our content is licensed for Pro/Commercial use which is not the case with KV. That is why they make clear that it is for home use only.



Our service, when used with our player or with the programs currently integrating it into their software (Kjams, PCDJ and MTU Hoster) does not need internet connection to play. There is no buffering or locking up...the content or whatever portion the user wishes to save to the drive, is played directly.

The last point I would like to make is that Party Tyme has had digital licenses with the publishers for 8 years. Although they didn't do anything with them until recently, the number of songs that have been removed from the approved use list over that time period has been in the teens. I bring this up because this seems to be the other "negative" towards a streaming service. This concern is based on the Digitrax fiasco, when they launched the vaunted Karaoke Cloud. Touted as being the only legal karaoke streaming service etc. etc. - only to lose licensing and face lawsuits shortly thereafter while steadily removing content. Our approach has been methodical, ethical and by the book and such concerns are unfounded in our case.

Apologies Michael, I meant to direct that statement at the Karafun program. Stupid phone doesn't always catch the words on speech to text - just edited to reflect. Honestly haven't tried the Party Tyme pro player yet.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Lonnie, that may be true (that a KJ can make that $99 a month back), but keep in mind, that would not be the case for jstrater (the OP)...

Yes Cue that is correct, however in his situation he also stated

If he isn't charging anything to recoup and make money - that's his problem, however using illegal tracks for pay or for nothing can still get him and the club he works in trouble.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

What you're doing, free karaoke, is only hurting the industry and making it harder for every respectable KJ to compete at a fair price. When the word gets out that you're doing karaoke for free, and it will get out, other bar owners in the area will expect to pay the KJ in food and drinks, too. All bar owners know each other, and they talk.

Because of people like you, you're making it harder for KJ's who rely on this for income.

So listen carefully...

If this is a hobby as you have stated, then DO NOT do this in a professional capacity. Unless you don't care about anyone except yourself. Karaoke, like a live band, DJ, etc. is not free entertainment. And most of us rely on it to supplement our income. For many, it IS our main income.

My advice to you is Get Out Of The Business. You are not contributing anything to the industry. You're only making it worse.

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

He said he doesn't want to use his illegal library and looking to pay for a streaming service

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

That has nothing to do with it. He said that he will do it for beer and food. And that's what's damaging to every other KJ trying to do this for a living at a fair price.

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

We have some around here that do the same thing. Doesn't effect me. Why? Because I offer a true Karaoke service, not some bull crap nonsense.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

I have to agree with others here. If you place no value on the services you offer (ie: will work for beer and food). Then others such as bar owners and private clients will place the same value on your services.

I had to learn that the hard way early on when I used to do a friends Bday party for free. Then she wanted me to provide karaoke for her son Bday for free. I explained my costs and offered her a discount. Needless to say she felt I should provide it to her for free like I did for her Bday parties. It has been a lesson that has served me well. Your time is worth more than just beer and food.

That's not the point. The point is that he, and others like him, are hurting the industry. They're sending the message to bar owners that karaoke hosts are of no value and are worthless.

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

As a general principle, I agree that operators should not work for free or for B&P (this is a family forum, so we'll say that P stands for "provisions").

However, I have some confidence that the OP will come to view this as work for which he needs to be paid. We might think of the initial free period as an internship for gaining experience in running a show. If his motivation is to help out his friend, he will quickly come to realize that either the service he provides is worth paying for, or it's ineffective and he's not helping his friend.

This is pretty much what I was going to say--everyone has to learn some way. I would just set the expectation that this will lead to a fee or something, if it's something you plan to do to earn money.

And, also, Jim? Can you PM me the other "P" because I am going nuts trying to think of what it is you're saying. I just keep coming up with beer and pretzels, beer and pizza, and I know I'm going to feel like a big dumb dummy because I know the answer is obvious and will be terribly embarrassed for even asking.

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Co-host of The Greatest Song Ever Sung (Poorly), a karaoke-themed podcast