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Vocal Removal
https://mail.karaokescene.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3517		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  syberchick70 [ Sat Dec 11, 2004 4:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Vocal Removal
I'm sure this has been asked before, but I don't see it.

What's the best way to remove a vocal track on that song you're just dying to do, but no one makes a karaoke version of?

Anyone?

I've tried the 'vocal cut' on Cool Edit Pro, but the song just gets all mushy (and the vocal track is still there).
Author:  knightshow [ Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
I've heard Thompson's Vocal Eliminator is the best, but I have no experience with it.

I've messed around with Goldwave, the stereo - remove vocals... but it's the same thing as the cool edit pro 2 thingy.
Author:  syberchick70 [ Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
knightshow wrote:
I've heard Thompson's Vocal Eliminator is the best, but I have no experience with it.

I've messed around with Goldwave, the stereo - remove vocals... but it's the same thing as the cool edit pro 2 thingy.


Argh!! Well, for $XX-thousand bucks I would hope so, but it's rack-mount hardware! Not something I can download a 'trial version' of... :cry: :cry:

Too bad about Goldwave. I just tried something called 'Blaze Audio' too, and pretty much the same result. I am starting to suspect I'm going to keep running into that problem unfortunately. :(

Well, thanks anyway, I do appreciate your time. If anyone else knows of a good program, please let me know. :)
Author:  Terry Richards [ Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
I have the Thompsons Vocal Eliminator but they are quite expensive.($2400). Some of the Pros on this site believe that you can get the same results from other systems that are much less costly..If you choose to buy an eliminator be prepared for ghosts or elimination of some instruments also on a certain% of CDs. You can submit your CDs to their company for results..If you look into the archieves on this site you will see a few posts on this subject and answers given on the subject..I personally love the Thompsons...It also contains a Mic Pre Amp and 32 bit Processing(whatever that means)...I guess its a matter of what you are willing to spend..
Author:  Tony [ Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Vocal Removal
syberchick70 wrote:
I'm sure this has been asked before, but I don't see it.

What's the best way to remove a vocal track on that song you're just dying to do, but no one makes a karaoke version of?

Anyone?

I've tried the 'vocal cut' on Cool Edit Pro, but the song just gets all mushy (and the vocal track is still there).


The problem with vocal removal is deeper then just "cutting" something out of a track.
A lot of software claims to be able to do it, but it all depends on the way the original has been recorder. You will have the most success with the older recordings. The reason for this is that the bands were mixed down the way they were actually standing on stage. Let me explain.

A band would consist of say 4 mucisians (s/p?) Drummer, bassist, guitarist and keyboardist (Does that word exist?)
Anyhow, The bassist and keyboard player would be positioned on the left of the stage, the guitarist on the right, the drummer in the center (center being the focus of the bass drum) and the vocalist in the center with the shoo wha girls on the sides (you pick the side). So, that's how they would really record. If you listen to the music and closed your eyes, you could actually picture the position of each band member. Then...............we came along with our fancy software and karaoke :shock:

At this point we could remove the vocals from a track, and you would have a great music track, without vocals AND without bass drum! (Both centered) after using center channel elimination (or vocal removing). Now a days, the recording industry is clever, and they mix 35/65% on each channel, so when you do apply center channel elimination, it sounds like crap.

So, Syber, to answer your question. If you have an old recording you do have a reasonable change of vocal removal (and at the same time loose the bass drum), but if the track you have is relatively new (post mid 80's) recording, kiss it goodbye.

Here's how its done with CoolEdit:
Load the WAV/MP3 file into Cool Edit.
Create a new window with no WAV file in it (File->New...).
Set the settings at 44.1KHz 16-bit *mono*.
Switch back to the original WAV/MP3 file (with the "Window" menu).
Select the entire left channel in the original WAV file. If you move the mouse to the top of the WAV display area, the mouse cursor gets a little 'L' next to it. Pick a spot near the middle of the screen, left click, and drag all the way to the left edge. Then move the cursor back to the middle, right click, and drag all the way to the right edge. You should now have the entire left channel selected.
Select "copy". Switch to the new WAV file, and select "paste". Switch back to the original.
Move the mouse cursor near the bottom of the WAV graphic until the mouse pointer gets an 'R' next to it, and select the entire right channel the way you did the left.
Select "copy". Switch to the new WAV file. From the Edit menu, select "Mix paste...".
Select "Overlap (Mix)", volume of 100, and check the "Invert" checkbox. Click "OK".
Give this a try to see how it works for you.
Author:  Atomic [ Sun Dec 12, 2004 3:00 am ]
Post subject: 
I've tried loads of vocal removers and have yet to find one that works to my satisfaction...

What song is it you're looking for?

You might be better to get a midi file and work it (or get someone to work it for you) If its done properly, it can sound fairly good.
Author:  syberchick70 [ Sun Dec 12, 2004 5:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Vocal Removal
AllStar wrote:
syberchick70 wrote:
I'm sure this has been asked before, but I don't see it.

What's the best way to remove a vocal track on that song you're just dying to do, but no one makes a karaoke version of?

Anyone?

I've tried the 'vocal cut' on Cool Edit Pro, but the song just gets all mushy (and the vocal track is still there).


The problem with vocal removal is deeper then just "cutting" something out of a track.
A lot of software claims to be able to do it, but it all depends on the way the original has been recorder. You will have the most success with the older recordings. The reason for this is that the bands were mixed down the way they were actually standing on stage. Let me explain.

A band would consist of say 4 mucisians (s/p?) Drummer, bassist, guitarist and keyboardist (Does that word exist?)
Anyhow, The bassist and keyboard player would be positioned on the left of the stage, the guitarist on the right, the drummer in the center (center being the focus of the bass drum) and the vocalist in the center with the shoo wha girls on the sides (you pick the side). So, that's how they would really record. If you listen to the music and closed your eyes, you could actually picture the position of each band member. Then...............we came along with our fancy software and karaoke :shock:

At this point we could remove the vocals from a track, and you would have a great music track, without vocals AND without bass drum! (Both centered) after using center channel elimination (or vocal removing). Now a days, the recording industry is clever, and they mix 35/65% on each channel, so when you do apply center channel elimination, it sounds like crap.

So, Syber, to answer your question. If you have an old recording you do have a reasonable change of vocal removal (and at the same time loose the bass drum), but if the track you have is relatively new (post mid 80's) recording, kiss it goodbye.

Here's how its done with CoolEdit:
Load the WAV/MP3 file into Cool Edit.
Create a new window with no WAV file in it (File->New...).
Set the settings at 44.1KHz 16-bit *mono*.
Switch back to the original WAV/MP3 file (with the "Window" menu).
Select the entire left channel in the original WAV file. If you move the mouse to the top of the WAV display area, the mouse cursor gets a little 'L' next to it. Pick a spot near the middle of the screen, left click, and drag all the way to the left edge. Then move the cursor back to the middle, right click, and drag all the way to the right edge. You should now have the entire left channel selected.
Select "copy". Switch to the new WAV file, and select "paste". Switch back to the original.
Move the mouse cursor near the bottom of the WAV graphic until the mouse pointer gets an 'R' next to it, and select the entire right channel the way you did the left.
Select "copy". Switch to the new WAV file. From the Edit menu, select "Mix paste...".
Select "Overlap (Mix)", volume of 100, and check the "Invert" checkbox. Click "OK".
Give this a try to see how it works for you.


Well, I will admit, that's a bit more in depth than what I tried last time (simply using the 'vocal cut' feature). I'll give that a try and see if it's any better. Thank you for the detailed answer. :)
Author:  syberchick70 [ Sun Dec 12, 2004 5:56 am ]
Post subject: 
Atomic wrote:
I've tried loads of vocal removers and have yet to find one that works to my satisfaction...

What song is it you're looking for?

You might be better to get a midi file and work it (or get someone to work it for you) If its done properly, it can sound fairly good.


Well, a midi would be a possibility, especially since the track I'm looking for has VERY simple instrumentals... BUT, I sincerely doubt it can be found. It's pretty obsure.

I'm looking for Joni Mitchell's 'Twisted' in anticipation of the 'Jazz week' that's probably coming up soon.

Haven't had any luck finding it yet. I've been told that none of the major karaoke labels made it (of course midi is a whole new world).

Thanks :)
Author:  Atomic [ Sun Dec 12, 2004 2:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
Try this site manythings.org/midi/search.html for searching for midi files... I found a load called Twisted, but I don't know if they're the right one's as I don't know the song you mean... but its worth a look :)
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