Karaoke Forums

Recently, I was given a CAVS HDV-201 Plus as a present. I cost my friends upwards of $600, and I was pretty pleased with it until I discovered it didn't support CD+G. I did some research to see what the advantages of it are, and all I could see that it had going for it was support for CAVS MP3G format. But there seem to be a grand total of 6 discs available in this format, and only a couple of them are in English!

Basically I'm wondering if I'm just missing something or if I've been given a system that both lacks support for the single most common and versatile karaoke format and has support for a special format that is, in essence, already dead.

I've been considering returning it for the CAVS DVD-202G II, which supports CD+G and Super CD+G, as Super CD+G seems to have all of the advantages of MP3+G but a wider selection of compatible discs.

Any advice from the karaoke gurus? I'd really appreciate some guidance on this.

Thanks!

The CAVS HDV-201Plus is a DVD/MP3G/VCD/MIDI Karaoke Player. Interesting it states that

"HDV-201 plays the MP3G Karaoke Discs, the newest Karaoke technology, with thousands of alive CD+G quality multiplex recording songs in each DVD disc and it also plays all of CAVS MIDI Karaoke Discs." It does specify the following

Specifications

Compatible disc DVD/VCD/CD-RW/CD-R/CD, MP3G, MIDI
Power Supply 110V - 240V, 50/60 Hz
Video Mode NTSC/PAL (Composite, S-video)
Audio Mode Dolby Digital 5.1 channel, DTS
Dimension 420 x 90 x 340 mm
Weight 4.5 Kg
This Machine does not play CD+G disc




If you have to stick to CAVS then that might just be the best solution. CAVS claims "As a Karaoke player, HDV-201 plays the MP3G Karaoke Discs, the newest Karaoke technology" My opinion, stick to CDG for now, where you have such a wide variety of music available, you will unlikely run out of choices.

Yeah, like I said, this was a present, so I didn't choose it. My question is if I were to keep it, which I am seriously reconsidering now, where do I even get music for it? I don't want low-quality midi music, and as I said before, the "CAVS MP3G" format (correct me if I'm wrong, but this is related to the electronically distributable mp3+g format in name only and is really something different) seems to only have a very few discs out for it. I get the impression that MP3G seemed like a good idea at the time it came out, but never quite caught on and was superseded by Super CDG. Please, someone, if I'm wrong, let me know and point me in the right direction.

If I'm right, could someone recommend a good karaoke player that supports all the most useful formats?

Always try to use the right tools for the job. A JVC XLSV22BK is a good machine for home and gig useage, a Single Tray CD+G Player. If you start doing gigs, get 2 of them (one backup or use for easy and quick loading of next singers song)

Stay away from these fancy formats. As I said,

Not really interested in doing gigs, so suitability for that isn't a priority. I definitely want to be able to play VCDs though, and I do like that Super CDGs can fit a thousand songs on a disc so you don't have to change after every song. I know you're saying stay away from the fancy formats, but do you have any sense of whether Super CD+G will become a standard, de facto or otherwise, or if it will go the way CAVS MP3G seems to have?

I don't see Super CDG taking over - it's a nice alternative & sounds very inviting due to more songs on less discs. Most companies don't want to "put all their eggs in one basket" so to speak. 1 scratch or oops on the disc, you don't just lose 9-15 songs, you lost a disc containing somewhere around 500 songs - & you better hope that those aren't your most popular songs. I do think that the MP3G or equivalant computer format will take over eventually after all the legal issues with them are ironed out.

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the other thing you might consider is getting a plextor drive, and converting the cdgs on your computer to mp3g and then burning them all on a single disc.

PERSONALLY, I'd return it for the one that does the supercdg... if you're not interested in hosting and are only looking for home use.

I've done a lot of research in the past couple days trying to figure out how to convert CDG to MP3G and then burn it. I do realize that not all drives support it, but I don't even see an option for an MP3G CD (or DVD) in Nero, which is what I usually use to burn. Other programs like CDRWin have options to burn in CDG format, but I haven't seen anything for the CAVS MP3G format (this is a proprietary format, right?) At first I thought maybe it was as simple as just converting the .bin files to .cdg and .mp3 and burning them to disc but the player just saw it as an mp3 CD. Any assistance as to the process of actually CREATING an MP3G disc that will play on the HDV-201 would be greatly appreciated.

But all that said, yes, I am definitely looking at SCDG-enabled players, the DVD-202G in particular. However, there is this new player called the Acesonic DGX-500. Its firmware is supposedly upgradeable, so it could support formats that aren't even around yet. This seems like a nice feature to have, although it does not seem to support SCDG.

One last question- what has you experience been (if any) with the two formats SCDG and MP3G? It seems like discs in both formats are somewhat scarce, but that there are many more for SCDG. Is this right? Are there any other formats that can hold a large number of songs on a single DVD/CD? Okay, that was more than one question, sorry. I appreciate all you guys' help.

yeah, the support for mp3g went away right after scdg came out!

essentially they're the same thing... just labeled differently so the scdg can see them. there's a link on the www about converting mp3gs to scdg. Quite informative.

CAVS mp3g IS propietary, but it didn't use to be. when the hard drive unit FIRST came out, it was recognized ONLY as the two files, mp3 and cdg

Now THAT was the kind of answer I was looking for! Thank you very much.

I'm wondering why the HDV-201 Plus player was so expensive- it was almost $600 dollars when other newer players that support SCDG and most other formats cost about half that. He said that the people he talked to said it had good sound quality or something.

In any case, do you have any opinion on an alternative player? What about the two I mentioned in my last post? Any info on sound/quality, problems to watch out for, players to avoid?

Thanks again!

only saw the one you mentioned... the Acesonic DGX-500.

I've NOT heard very favorible things about that particular company, but I have no DIRECT experience, so PLEASE don't take that as gospel... I'd search the web for them... maybe there's a forum or something similar about their products.

I WILL admit that the tech specifics look very impressive. I like having the ability to play one and have the other interchangable.

BUT it looks shakey... that ONE tray is going to get a LOT of action, going in and out, much more than say a single tray, ironically. Because with a single tray, you put it in, and it recognizes it.

If you're talking SHEER home usage, I love the RSQ505. It plays all the same formats EXCEPT mp4 and AVI. It's a single tray unit.

Man, the price on it looks just too good to be true. I did some poking around on the retailer's sites... looking for feedback. usually, some negative feedback soon after a release is a MAJOR thing to watch out for. Couldn't find any.

It IS the only player out there that currently supports mpeg and avi (divx) formats... so it might be worth it. I just shudder at that low price! Got me leery!

What bad things specifically have you heard about Acesonic?

The 5-disc feature is nice and the flash upgradeable firmware is VERY attractive, in case there ever comes a non-proprietary compressed format that allows many many songs to be put on a single disc, although I guess with some work you could convert your CDGs to DiVX and play them that way.

You said you haven't found any bad reviews for the Acesonic player. Have you seen any reviews at all? I'm thinking since this just came out last month, we might not start seeing them until after Christmas.

denjiro, at first glance, the Acesonic DGX-500 looks very impressive on paper. I have 2 concerns after looking at this machine:

#1. Brand new on the market
#2. Couldn't find any customer reviews.

I would not buy anything without knowing what I am buying.
You have some options:
Wait another couple of months before you buy this.

Another karaoke format is the mp3+g. An mp3+g is like a CDG but the music portion of the file is an mp3 instead of a .wav making the file 10 times smaller. An SCDG disk is made up of a large number of mp3+gs which have been encoded to MCGs (mcg and mp3 file) and then encoded again into a series of large .dat files. For example, if you have 900 songs on an SCDG (using a DVD) your SCDG disk will contain 4 .dat files. Also, once you've encoded files to SCDG, they cannot be reversed/decoded.

Do a search as Knightshow mentioned on the web. You'll find a whole write-up on the CAVS website on how to do it.

The only bad things I've heard is that the stuff breaks down easily... and quickly. Also, since it's an Asian made product, it'll be very hard finding a service center that's qualified to work on it.

And yes, the five disc feature looks impressive... but it also looks flimsy as hell. And that means easy breakage. As I said, the price also makes me leery.

And the other thing, I hate firmware updates. Every thing I've ever gotten that wasn't a computer that had the "update" feature has been just garbage.

I personally think you're reaching too far, too fast.

But I could be very wrong too... this could be the wave of the future. Do you want to be on the ground stages and be one of the first happy customers... or a first unhappy one?

That's what Allstar and I were hinting at.

The RSQ505 I mentioned is time tested! And for home or a pro market, THAT's what I recommend.

That's REALLY not true m'man... if you can play it, you can rip it. EVEN if you have to go the long way around.

I'll take your word for that Matt.

Let's see if we can help denjiro on the right track
Imagine spending a lifetime getting all your stuff on 2 disks, and as Lonman said, damage one and 1/2 your music is lost. Can you imagine that happening?

oh no way.

now I've heard that you can purchase a program that will do the ripping of scdg to cdg... but I can't verify that.

anyway, you've stated the reason I run off computer now... with my discs safely at home. I understand you do the same thing!

Well, happily, AceKaraoke agreed to take my old player back with really no hassle.

All points well-taken. Thanks for the advice. As for the RSQ505, I am definitely considering it. But I would really like a player that supports SCDG for several reasons. Mostly, this player is going to be for home/party use. I don't really see myself becoming a DJ. With that in mind, it is a lot more attractive to be able to pop a disc in and have people sing a bunch of songs off it than having to get up and swap discs for every new song. Also, there seems to be a decent selection of stuff on SCDG so far, but even if the format becomes usupported, it will still be possible to get CDGs and then compile them all onto a single SCDG. This flexibility really appeals to me.

So, my question is, if I wanted a player that would support (at the very least) CDG, VCD, and SCDG (and hopefully DVD as well), is there a player you'd recommend?

Hello All:

I am the chief engineer of Acesonic DGX-500, so I can tell you everything you want to know about this new 5 Tray DVD / DivX / Karaoke Changer.

Couple points mention in the previous messages:

Upgradable Firmware: Yes, this player can be upgraded to new firmware in the future. We are evaluating market potential and cost effectiveness for adding new formats including MP3+G, SCDG or Neo+CDG. In fact, Acesonic DGX-500 and CAVS 103G share the identical ESS decoding board. Adding SCDG feature can be easily done by adding the decoding software to the EPROM. (We’ll need to pay the hefty license fee)

Reliability: We spent 6 hours burn-in each player in the factory. We put 5 discs in the drawer, and if a player failed to play from disc 1 to disc 5 non-stop, we’ll reject the player. Every knob and connector on this player is tested at least once.

DivX / Mp4: This player is capable of playing the latest DivX 5.0 encoded format.
DivX is going to be the new format for karaoke. You can easily convert a MP3+G or CD+G (BIN) file into MP4 format. The file size is about 5 MB per song for MP4. One benefit of MP4 format is that you can fast forward songs without video been scrambled like CD+G songs. You can put up to 2048 Songs Per Disc x 5 discs = 10240 Songs on this changer.

Improvement in the future: So far, the initial feedbacks from customers are very positive. Although we are trying to satisfy both movie and karaoke customers, we had to make some compromises between the 2 different requirements. We are working on additional improvement for our next design. We’ll post free firmware upgrade in the future when we added more feature to this player.

Cost: Yes, this player does cost a bit. Why?
1) Propriety 5 Tray Disc Changer Mechanism – DGX-500 was designed from scratch. The drawer tray design costs a lot more than carousel design, however, drawer design allow you to change 5 discs at the same time, and like car DVD changer, your discs won’t get jam inside the tray even if you put the player side way or upside down.
2) Super-Shock resistant - This player uses similar technology as portable DVD player. Once the disc is playing, it will not skip even if you trying to shake it really hard. If you are a running mobile DJ on a bus or boat, your music will not skip even if you are going over a speed bump or big waves!
3) Professional Karaoke mixer built-in using Mitsubishi m50195 chipset. The mixer quality is equal or better than most of the karaoke mixers in the market. You can just connect this player straight into amplifier or receiver without a mixer!
4) 32MB memory buffer. This feature is especially useful if you are watch DivX movie. Some cheaper players will run into pauses or pixilated screen when there are a lot of fast actions on the screen. Extra buffer also give the machine additional time for error corrections and recovery from shocks.
5) GPU Heat Sinker – A lot of DVD player goes bad because video processor get over heated. Like your computer’s graphic card, we added a heat sinker to make sure the Graphic Processor Unit stays cool even after hours of playing.
6) Rack-Mountable – Acesonic DGX-500 is designed so it can be rack-mounted. This is welcome news for a lot of DJ, KJ and sound engineers. The frame had to use thicker steel so it can withstand the body weight. Rack-mount kit is included.
7) Direct access on front panel – we added all the extra button on the front panel of this player so you can operate this player without a remote controller.
8 ) Separate Music and Vocal output – If you prefer to use your own mixer console, Acesonic DGX-500 has bypass microphone output. You can talk on 1 channel and play music on another channel.
9) Reusable Ultra-durable Package – we figured a lot of DJ/KJ going to take the machine from place to place, so we designed the package box for repeat usages. This player was able to survived a 4 ft drop to concrete floor inside the package (do not try at home!)
10) Dual Screen Display – 1 for KJ and 1 for audiences
11) Park Head Feature – Again, we learned a lot of DVD player die because the laser lenses get damaged due to excessive shock during transportation. We make sure each time you shut off the player, the laser lenses is parked and locked so it can withstand maximum force of shocks.

As you can see, we have put a lot of efforts into the design of this player. We spare no cost when we designed this player. We knew the cost is going to be high, but we know the player will not fail at the most critical moment which could cost you a few thousands of dollar and your reputation.

Our engineer teams consists of few DJs / KJs. We have also taken inputs from a lot of customers, and study our competitors’ design to come up with a better machine. So even though this is the first DVD/CD+G player from Acesonic, we can assure you this player is as good or better than most of the karaoke player in the market today.

In case you want to know what DGX stands for? It’s D= DVD, G=CD+G, X=DivX

DW

Hello

If your interested in the Acesonic DGX 500 as a viable player for shows I would suggest you stay away from it.
the following email to Acesonic have been in play for a few weeks now.
and mostly none have been responded to, maybe to avoid anything in print.
I'll start from the beginning.

(1st email)

no email response only pls call
1. While I was playing a song I tried to load some disks but the tray seemed to be off center, in other words the tray was
unable to fully close which caused the song playing to start skipping. is this an indication of something loose inside.
this happened only once so far

2. I have the signal split to three monitors and while the two that I use for the singer and audience seem fine, the one I use for myself { a small 5 inch LCD } Flickers and loses some color.

3. also during the night I lost my two monitors signal {singer and audience} but the LCD worked fine although still flickering.

4. is there a way to speed up the load time? I have noticed that it scans each time I close the tray while no disk is playing
the problems I was having with the operation of this unit was each time I pushed the a disk number it would go directly
to song number 1 and I had to hit the menu button the correct song number then play which seems like another waste of time,
the manual seems pretty light for something so complicated, or maybe
it seems complicated due to the seven page manual.


5. Pitch control, I noticed that it does not go back to the normal setting, which on a busy night can be frustrating, can anything be done to correct this issue


phone response
After talking to customer service they admitted that this player should not be used commercially ( taking that to mean it not the best for karaoke shows) since it has to scan each time you put 5 new disks in.
the down side to sending it back is the 15% restocking fee.
so what it comes down to is, for the house it is a good unit for shows try another alternative.


(as of one week after sending this unit back this is the situation.
I sent this email to all the individuals at this company, and I suggest you stay away from them)


To whomever receives this and doesn't delete it

I am very dissatisfied with my dealings with your company,
I purchased your new 5 disk dvd player and found it lacking, when it came to running a karaoke show, and after having talked to one of your representatives, he said this unit is not for professional use even though you state that it is capable of handling a professional situation.

" World's first Professional 5 Trays DVD/ VCD/ CD+G/ MP3/ MP4/ Karaoke Player "

At that point I sent the unit back to you {Second day air} . which you received on December 30th
since I was told a restocking fee would have been charged to my account
( and even though your statement above, borders on false advertisement )
I decided to ordered a JVC triple tray player,,, but after sending an Email to you and getting no response,
I decided to call and confirm that this unit had been sent out and was told that due to a backup at your facility you have not gotten to it as yet, and when I was told that it would get shipped out ground that got me even more furious with your lack of proper customer service skills.
After finally getting your returns department to answer the phone, I asked to have it shipped next day air so I can use it at my show on Friday but was told that I would have to pay $80.00 to have that done.
Now I don't know about your company but my company, being put in that position, would get it out to the customer next day and eat the cost to keep our customers happy.

Needless to say I was finally told that they could ship me the new unit in the same fashion I shipped your unit back to you ( I'm amazed he didn't mention that in our earlier conversation )
so with my hands tied I agreed to shipping it back to me second day air.
Now!
I had been a KJ in San Francisco and am now in the in the Dallas Fort worth area.
I know most of the KJ's here and have a very loyal and large following and I will make sure that everyone in this area knows how you treat new customers and to avoid doing any buisness with you in the future.




Steve Z

ps I also had a problem with the small size of the machines buttons,
I feel even in a well lit venue a KJ would be hard pressed to not hit the wrong button or worse hit the off button (which is a momentary switch - not an on / off switch)-though I never had it long enought to see if bumping it would cause it to cycle down