Karaoke Forums

To DigiTrax:

If you've been following the threads about KaraoQ you will see that around 99% of us will not use or support KaraoQ.

I ask you:

Why would you partner and/or associate with a company whose software is designed to cater to a select group of people. People who, for the most part, think they're above everyone else. People with money who can "bribe" their way to the top. And of course, the spoiled little "divas" who are used to getting their way.

This is NOT what karaoke is all about.

Karaoke is about EVERYONE having fun and EVERYONE treated fairly.

In my opinion, this type of software is a detriment to KJ's and venue owners. It can cost a KJ his/her job and venues can lose customers. When you start to alienate people, they're going to find someplace else to go. Most of us here have said that if we were at such a show where bumps/bribes were accepted, we would leave.

If you think that this type of thing is going to be the "savior" of the industry, think again.

In my opinion, partnering with this company is only going to put you in a negative light. You may tarnish your image and can lose support of your products, as a result. You don't need anyone else to bring you down, you can do that on your own.

Are you willing to put your business and reputation on the line by supporting a company whose only motivation is to capitalize off KJ's and venues who don't believe in treating people fairly? Or care about their feelings?

*** I asked several of my regulars at my show last night how they would feel if I were to implement the "bump" feature. They all said they would not stand for it and would find somewhere else to go. And I can't blame them.

Which proves my point. If I were to use this feature, the venue would lose customers which would result in me losing a job.

Can't blame the venue since it's my job to bring in customers not drive them away.

But of course DigiTrax, the choice is up to you. Choose Wisely.

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

I don't, can't, and won't attempt to speak for Digitrax on this issue, but I think I can offer you some perspective on their approach to this.

I doubt very much that they expect to gain anything like 100% market penetration with this type of arrangement. I think they probably understand that this system won't work for everyone, and they're OK with that.

This system might work. It might prove popular with karaoke patrons. It might increase revenues to the KJs who use it. It might increase bar revenues, especially if the bar is getting the tips. After all, they could certainly sell this system to the bar.

Or it might not. It might fail spectacularly.

I expect that people who are offended by the concept of tipping to sing sooner, or perhaps more accurately, allowing people to jump ahead of them in the rotation by paying money, will vote with their feet and find shows that don't use such systems. Only time will tell whether that happens in sufficient numbers to doom KaraoQ, or not.

One of the things I do for fun is to play pub trivia, which works on the same sort of economics as karaoke. I have on at least two occasions stopped playing at my regular venue, once because the trivia jockey did nothing to prevent cheating, and the other time because the trivia jockey ran the show very incompetently. I made sure that company that ran the trivia shows was made aware of the problem, and when they did not fix it, I made sure that the venue knew they wouldn't be getting my business anymore. Did it affect anything? No, they're still running trivia shows in those two venues.

Well Jim, when are you coming to one of my trivia shows in Myrtle Beach? I decided early in my business to always have a zero tolerance for cheating, all my hosts follow the same rules. Nothing will kill a trivia show faster than allowing folks to use their phones or consult with the wait staff to get answers. My line is, I can't kick you out of this bar, but I can kick you out of my trivia game, and I do, every time I catch one. My players respect that and they come back to our games because they know my company will run a clean game.

Maybe this new software will be seen as cheating the karaoke line, in which case, it will fail. I do think technology can make some things better, if these guys are smart, they'll take it in another direction pretty quick.

Playing devils advocate - what about places like Disneyland where you can buy a fast pass allowing you to get in front of the line - or a lot sooner than waiting an hour for the ride, or waiting in line at a bank and one of the managers walking asking if anyone has a straight deposit gets to go next. I suppose if a karaoke show advertises the fact that it is available and everyone knows they all have the same opportunity to use it or not - then it COULD work? It still wouldn't be something i'd use personally or in my shows.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

it does have a place i think, like Lon said. i think sports bars would be good for it. every sports bar (with the college age crowd) i have ever been in is nothing but "i'm better than you" leg lifters who will pay more to prove they are more important. maybe at hotels too where there is no group of regulars. for a general show at a neighbourhood bar....

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Next time I'm there, I'll come, but I don't get down that way much, since I don't live in North Carolina anymore.

***A Challenge***

Here is a challenge for any KJ reading this thread...

At your next show, ask at least five of your regular singers how they would feel if you were to start "accepting bribes for money" (which is exactly what it is), to move people up in front of them in the rotation. Explain how it will affect them by having people cut in front of you increasing your wait time to sing even longer.

Report back here with the results. I think that this would be more credible than KaraoQ's questionable survey.

As I said above, I asked a few of my regulars. Five of them to be exact. And not one of them liked it or would support it.

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

Any KJ who salts in new singers ahead of the people who already there can't really complain about bribe your way to the top. Bribe or salt, either way there are singers being pushed back in line.

As to Lonman's example of theme parks giving preferential treatment for paying more. Just because they're doing it doesn't make it right.

If history teaches anything it's that you can only (@$%&#!) on people for so long before they finally take a stand. This country and this world are getting really close to that point once again.

Alan, you can't do what Digitrax did (skew the survey towards the results YOU are looking for). You have to present the questions as unbiased as possible. You need to add one more question to that survey for it to (possibly) have a positive approval rating (like KaraoQ claims). That would be, "and would you be willing to pay to jump the line as well?". Obviously, if any of those people respond with a "Yes.", then they're giving an approval to this new system feature.

I suspect that I am missing another question (within the above) which would truly make this survey of your unbiased.

Then can you explain; Why would DigiTrax associate with a company which is seen by most of us as being detrimental to KJ's and Venues. A move that could hurt their reputation even further and possibly lose sales.

They're already doing a good job of that now by not offering detailed receipts of downloads purchased from their website. It's caused them to lose sales from many of us. I believe that partnering with KaraoQ will only increase that loss even further since those of us who will not support or use this software won't do business with anyone who does.

And even if it takes off and 50% of KJ's and or venues used it, which I seriously doubt, but lets just say...

Do you really want to be looked upon as a company that obviously doesn't care about people's feelings? Do you care if a KJ loses his/her job because of this?

IMO, just the possibility of being seen in a negative light would be enough for me to pull out. But I will say this, and I'm sure many would agree... if Digitrax supports KaraoQ, I will no longer support or purchase from Digitrax. So anyway,........ Back to Mr. Harrington.

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

There may not be a big market for the program but I'm very wary of saying that karaoke shows have to be run one way. I've seen too many shows that went against "the way" be successful. Everyone speaks against Toqer's system yet he was voted best show of the year several times in his area.

I also know of a show that "lost the slips" of anyone who wasn't a good singer or who put in a slow song. There were a lot of disgruntled singers (because we got them at our show) but the other show went for a long time because there were a lot of non-singers who liked to go in and hear all of the good singing. Another show where each host took two turns for a total of 4 per round went on for 16 years because, despite the griping of the singers, it was the most fun and entertaining show in the area.

There are a lot of problems in the world worthy of moral outrage. I'm not sure that styles of karaoke shows is one of them unless stealing or dirty tricks are involved.

Keep up all this 'drama' and people will be buying the program just to see what all the fuss is about...

As far as I'm concerned, it is none of my business whether his program succeeds or fails... So far, I cannot forsee where it would ever have a negative impact upon my business, but if or when it does, it's me who will have to adjust my practice/profile...

In other words... I have nothing but respect for the innovators and venturers, as long as what they do is both legal and ethical. At the same time, I have no fear of competition. If I cannot compete, I shouldn't be in the business.

To be brutally honest, if I could invent something... (a program, equipment, system, or whatever) that would make me a ton of money... and I mean lots of money... yet would put many, if not most of you out of business... guess what? That's what free enterprise and competition is all about.

Carry on Toquer... You'll not get any negative press from me.

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Earl
(BS, PHD & Certified CurmuDJeon)

[font=Times New Roman]"Growing Old may be mandatory... but growing UP is still optional."[/font]

I said it before and I'll say it again. Ethics is saying what you will do and doing what you say and it's the same with karaoke shows. If you advertise the feature and maybe even give it a try on a slow night, you might just find it could be a crowd changer.

Think outside the box for a minute. This could be used to raise money for charity. This could be used as a raffle. Everyone that "participates" gets their name in the hat. At the end of the night there is a drawing and the winner wins the pot. Must be present to win? That keeps people in the bar longer. We have some creative people here. I am sure you could find other ways this could be used besides simply being a bribe.

True, but since this is a karaoke forum and karaoke is what we do, karaoke is what we talk about.

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

Your right, it could change the crowd. It could make it even smaller.


If you want to raise money for charity, just pass a hat around the room or put out a jar. You certainly don't need to use this software to do it and then have to pay them a cut on top of it.


Again, you don't need this software for a raffle either. Buying a roll of tickets for a couple of bucks is a lot cheaper than having to give the software creators a "cut".

Again, there is nothing that this software can do that we can't do already without it. So far, I have seen absolutely NO benefit from using it.

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

Alan, define "most of us." Is that "most of us" here (in k-scene), or "most of us" KJs across all of the globe? If it's the former, then I only counted about 15 of us who voiced an opinion, and there were a few that actual liked the concepts presented for KaraoQ. If it's the latter, how can you begin to even know what "most of us" are thinking?

Agreed.

Sorry I wasn't clear. I was referring to the people on the forum.

Anyway, I said all I have to say about this.

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

Sure, but by admitting that we live in an oligarchy, does not make us any more powerful, less greedy or disguise the lack of integrity by allowing discrimination, in favor of those who can afford to buy their way to the top. Let's not reward a system that has destroyed our original American ideals...

the only thing I would like to know is if Digitrax and/or the company that made the software did ANY research/polling outside of their own state.

Somehow, it doesn't to appear so

that's all i'm going to say about it

-james