Karaoke Forums

I was going to post this in the KJ Only section, but this little rant deserves to be heard by everyone.

Nothing gets my goat more than a karaoke singer that I have never seen before coming up and telling me how to run my sound. And I don't mean the "Hey you have a hum..." or the "Sounds like your mic is cutting out" folks. I appreciate those comments.

I am talking about the people that walk in, are there 2 mins, then stomp up to the stage and start telling me to adjust the gain, need more reverb, less mids, more bass, blah blah blah.

THEN they sing across the mic instead of into it AND/OR hold the mic 2 feet from their face AND/OR hold the mic at waist level forcing me to actually make serious adjustments to accommodate them only to end the song with a banshee scream hoot.

More often than not, these same people tell me "I used to host at the so-and-so". I usually ask them how long ago that was and why aren't they still there....

or.....

"I have been singing karaoke for 25 years, I know good sound"

I know I am not a sound genius, but I have ears and I am not suffering from any marked hearing loss (as of a year ago anyway). I have learned a lot by doing, asking questions and following much of the excellent advice here in these forums (Thank you all!)

The most I will tell singers is to sing into the mic, hold it an inch or two from their mouth, louder is better than softer, enjoy yourself. I will even say pretty much exactly that every now and then at shows over the mic.

But I don't tell any singers "Sing from your diaphragm, not your lungs, enunciate more, you are too nasally, learn how to breath, blah blah blah because I AM a KJ and I am CURRENTLY working at these two bars and OH YEAH I have been singing karaoke for 25 years too!!!!"

If I want to hear a bunch of people tell someone how to do a job they have no clue how to do, I will log onto Facebook and go read all my Tea Party "friends" walls......

</rant>

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-Chris

I know right? I don't go to their place and tell them how to flip a burger! They should pay the same courtesy!

Funny thing is I get the same people on occasion and usually 9 out of 10 times it's people that cannot sing that are trying to tell you your business.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I know you two guys aren't that way, because I have been to your shows. But there *are* a lot of KJs who have no ear at all. I have a hard time understanding what they are listening to -- their sound is awful. Sometimes even with good speakers and mixer. The ones that get me the most are the set and forgetters. They never adjust a level once it is set -- quiet track or loud, it's all the same to them. I even have seen a guy who sets up his rig so he can't reach the mixer -- he has to walk around a table to get at it.

I used to try and tell them when I couldn't hear myself, but I even stopped doing that. I just move until I get a better angle on a speaker to make it the best I can. I have learned that you can't tell anyone anything -- it isn't going to do any good anyway.

Then I leave. I am no longer interested in singing if it doesn't sound good.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

I offered some detailed advise to the KJ that is at the bar now. He had the PC audio going into RCA in jacks instead of going to channels so he couldn't shape the music. He had both of the EQ's doing the smiley face at me while I was back there. I said, "See these mids right here that you have pulled so far down? That's where the vocals are." Move your music to the channels, drop the mid a touch there and equal this out. I know this system. I picked it out. It doesn't need to be EQed here."

I got tired of washed out vocals. He made the changes and it is SO much better. So, was I out of line?

I just helped a vocal group that uses tracks to perform with, and they weren't happy with the sound. It was a Behringer powered amp with EQ on the outputs of the mains and the monitors. The EQ had the happy face on both outputs. I flattened them out and EQ'd each channel strip and they couldn't believe the improvement. The music was fed into "tape in" so there was no way to EQ on the amp so I EQ'd it in Winamp (dropped the bass a little).

They have all been singing for decades and didn't have a clue about sound

To All - A half-apology on my part for the rant. I was actively moving between stage an audience trying to adjust sound when the incident occurred. The singer may have had a point simply because they may not have known I was actively making adjustments. I was working with different mics, different speakers and a different mixer which is why I was making a lot of adjustments. This guy couldn't have known that.

But it still rubbed me the wrong way because I was making very noticeable changes across the board for the whole two minutes he was there before he approached me and I wasn't even close to being done. I was tweaking things all night.

Oh....AND I had a trainee!

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-Chris

No worries, Chris.. I was just busting ya a little. I never liked strangers coming up and doing that either. There is a huge difference between having someone you don't know barge in and having someone you trust giving you a fly on the wall opinion.

Today in my local newspaper there was a article about "when to fire your customer". It went into the pros and cons of having customers that are less than pleasant or profitable. There is a lot of merit in knowing when to let a problem customer go. Over the years I have honed my skill to where the venue owners let me be the decision maker. Obviously Chis's situation didn't warrant the customer to be removed from the venue, but repeated confrontations might. Stress is cummulative and can have horrible outcomes! With as many shows as you have Chris I would squelch as many problems sooner than later. Not every customer is right or valuable!

Good Luck

This happened 2+ yrs ago / reposted: I know the type. This guy went up the stage to help “tweak my sound because he’s a sound engineer” giving me advice on speaker placement & to set my eq @ smiley face setting (giveaway - sound engineer he’s NOT!) The singer was only 6 ft away from us while he was blubbering words incoherently; actually I wasn’t listening but just keeping my patience at bay.

The last straw was when he touched my mixer knobs & adjusts the settings. The sound level dropped, the singer looked at me like saying wtf? I smacked his arm really hard while his hand still on top of the mixer. I’m positive it left a bruise; I can hardly contain myself & lucky for him my cooler temper prevailed or it could’ve been worse. He’s in total shock it’s now determination of psych one upmanship; it’s clear I have the upper hand.

I asked him where he works. He said assistant mgr, Radio Shack across the street. So, I told him I will be there tomorrow & show him how to do his job, the proper way to operate his register & calculating machines. He left fuming, complained to the manager how rude I treated him & that he’s not coming back anymore. Of course, he was back 3 weeks later with a positive attitude, told me the only time he will come up to the stage is when it’s his turn to sing.

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To be fortunate enough to derive an income from a source as fulfilling as karaoke music has got to be as close to heaven as we can get here on earth!

You just need this shirt!

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Talking about people holding the mic to far away, I decided many moons ago, that they don't want to be heard, and I will not chase after them with the volume control.....

Then the people, they are with, tell me that they can't hear the singer and want me to fix it ...... so I have to go to their table and explain what the problem really is

We have a note or two in out books about proper mic technique.
When I worked as a professional engineer, it was no different, regardless of the caliber of performer. The best trick is to put your hand on the knob, pretend to turn it, then go about your business. It isn't even fesible to take the time to explain things to people; it just stalls the show. It seems like there's always someone who refuses to sing properly but still expects to sound like they are.

Like Chris stated above, I've never claimed to be a "sound genius" either, however I would hope that some singers would realize that I've done this long enough over the years to have a decent read on sound levels & mixing, etc. One thing that really irks me is when a singer walks up on the stage when it's their turn, grabs the mic and "tests" the volume level with their normal talking voice....and then ask to have the mic turned up, even when it's on & we can all hear their voice fine before the song starts. It's just fascinating to me me how so many of them don't realize how much volume difference there can be between their polite-society conversation voice and their "Spinal Tap-esque level" karaoke vocal (in some cases ), so it would be nice to be able to blend their voice with the music before they start delivering their presumptive judgements about the mic levels.....and lord help me if I'm occasionally a split-second behind on having their mic unmuted and/or having the "pre-song" vocal level (aka the fader about in the "middle" range area) set before they get their hands on it There's worse things that I could be dealing with customer-wise of course, but for some reason that just annoys me.

I think some of them are those insecure people that try to make themselves look more savvy, seasoned & knowledgeable by trying to make you look like you don't what your doing, when it comes to that and other high-maintenance type moments.....but some of them are just flat-out pain-in-the-azzes, and therapy probably can't cure that.

It always seems to be a guy, doesn't it? I've never had a woman come up to me and tell me there is too much reverb or not enough low end. It's always a know-it-all ex-garage band member trying to school me on his knowledge of sound.

What's even funnier is when that same guy comes up to sing and has absolutely no rise or fall in his voice whatsoever. It's completely monotone and he's doing the regular "cupping his ear" like he either can't hear or he's a rockstar trying to play the part. I also love it when someone sounds like crap and there really isnt much you can do and they turn around a few times during their performance to give you the look like its your fault.

It's already been a long week!

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Sound Choice and Chartbuster Certified

I have a lady that is a very good singer that brings her own OEM cd's to sing from and she tells me all the time that her cd doesn't sound like THAT when she plays them at home. I explain to her that she doesn't have a professional floor monitor coming back at her and that might be the reason. Then she just looks at me like I'm crazy. She even accused one night of playing her song from my hard drive and not her cd, so I hit the eject button while she was singing and the music stopped. I don't think she was still convinced.

Every time anyone does that to me it turns out they are a former host looking for a job and they pretty much spend the evening telling anyone who will listen how they would do things differently or pointing out each mistake.

I am very susceptible to it as I just fell into the sound part of it so it is not the thing I have the most confidence in. If someone tells me they are a pro then I tell them, sure, show me something. I even asked one "sound engineer" to answer a question about my mixer I've always had. But so far it has all been a bust. Once they get going, after a while they start to say and do things that show they may have known how to run older equipment but they have no idea how what I have works.

For example they don't know about the new electronic speakers that are smaller so they think I'm trying to "get by with little plastic speakers." Or this one guy turned the mids knob down to 7 o'clock and made everyone sound like they were in a box and he wouldn't believe it wasn't the sweeps knob. I think mine is in the opposite position as some mixers because it's an English brand. Or else he was just too drunk. After a bit of that......

But being a female I tend to want to please. I have decided long ago that if MickyJ ever comes to my show he will be welcome to mix his own songs. If Chris Avis comes in I will have to go to the car and get out the emergency flat screen--and the autotune. If Lonman comes in I'm just plain going home.

You must've been lucky, the girls are sometimes worse. Had a gal last week stating she couldn't hear herself or her friends vocals (funny no one else had any complaints - but equally as funny, their group COULDN'T SING). She even went as far as accuse me of turning on the main vocals of the track to drown out her friend singing, well if he wasn't holding the mic at chest level, he may have been heard. I had already turned him up & the music down as far as it would go without feedback. Even tried a couple times to get his mic higher (closer to mouth) - to no avail.

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I think drunk people think mic.s are magical beasts that can do anything.

But again it's primarily with people that can't sing very well to start with that are the complainers (most of the time). Most of our good to great singers know how to hold a mic & many even have good mic control knowing when to move it closer or pull it back.

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