Karaoke Forums

So, as I pack up my Tuesday show, I figured I would post this while some music plays for the bar patrons.

I have a rotation policy that is fair to a fault, and I understand why some people complain about it. My policy has always been each person gets their own turn. If they have friends sing with them on their turn, that is their choice. So, it appears that "some people" sing more than others. However, I stick to a strict rotation and don't play favorites intentionally letting some sing more than others.

From my viewpoint, if someone wants me to sing a song with them, I don't want to do it if that means I have to sacrifice my turn that rotation to do it. That is how this system is fair.

Now, once the rotation hits an hour or more, I monitor this and will hold back the intentional duets so it doesn't get too out of hand. But under an hour this seems pointless.

I had 12 in the rotation for the night, but NEVER more than 5 active at any time tonight. There were two regulars and three newcomers singing most of the night. The regulars got pissy with me and left, because the other three would sing together. "I cam here to sing, not listen to the same three people" is what I was told.

Well, sorry, but each person gets their own turn. When there is 5 singers, it shouldn't really matter. If I counted them singing together as a turn for both, the regular would have been up every 3 or 4 songs instead of 5. Tough. I've done it this way for six years, and I'm not changing it just so you can sing 8 times in a night instead of 6 when you are only here for 3 hours to begin with. He said I'll just go over to the next town (35 miles away) to sing where they do it fair! Well, see ya then!

I won't apologize to a diva. Not going to happen. Why? These are the people that selectively go to shows where they know they can sing the most because they know which ones will have a shorter rotation. To them, quality doesn't matter. They just want to hear themselves, and the best part is, they aren't that good to begin with.

Both he and a friend of his have complained to me about this now, also a diva and they both go all over for karaoke. In six years, those two and maybe two others have ever complained. That's it.

The other point to make that is important is, the people that tend to sing together typically are out for a good time and are spending money at the bar, while these divas sit there all night sipping water or soda. Not a big loss if I piss them off with my "unfair" rotation.

/Rant.

Of course every kj has their own way of handling duets and groups. And of course, no matter what you do, there will always be someone that doesn't like it.

I run my rotation like this. I put everyone's name on the list. When it is your turn to sing, I don't care who you want to sing with you. I really don't. It's your turn. You waited in line to get up there so get up there and do whatever you want. My only stipulation is that if it is YOUR turn, then YOU better be singing the lead vocals and not just standing up there holding a mic, so that your friend can sing.

So in your case, you said you had 3 new singers. Let's say their names were Sally, Jenny and Amy. When I call Sally's name, she can let Jenny and/or Amy sing with her. That's her turn and her choice.

Next I call Jenny's name. She also has the same option.
And when I call Amy's name, she can also have Sally and/or Jenny sing with her as well.

Yes, in that situation the same group of girls sang together 3 times in a row, but so what. The other singers only had to wait for 3 songs to be sung before it was their turn..... AND... I also extend the same option to them as well. If they want to call someone up to sing with them, they can.

One thing I usually do in situations like that is spread them out. In other words, I may put them in the rotation as follows:

Jenny
Regular #1
Sally
Regular #2
Amy

And I would also make it clear whose turn was being used up when I called the new people so that your complainers know that they are using their own individual turn and that I was not calling up the same person over and over.

And that's how I do it. And lastly, if I encounter anybody who doesn't like how I handle this or wants to complain, they can go somewhere else and I'm serious about that. I don't put up with rotation complaints anymore. I used to, but not anymore. After I revamped my rotation method last year and have stuck to it consistently, I haven't had any problems anymore.

I have run my Rotations similar to what both of you have described.

I don't "Penalize" a person out of their turn just because they were asked to join someone in a Duet. SHOOT!!!! Not every singer is out there to try and "Beat the System." Sometimes, the person who is asked to join on stage doesn't even know the person who is currently on stage. I have gone to shows, where I wanted to sing a particular Duet, and I asked around to see if anyone else knew it well enough to want to sing it with me. It didn't matter to me if I knew the person or not.

Also, at a show that I hosted years ago, the crowd there were mostly College kids, and they all ran up to the stage to join in with each other on almost every song they sang. It's kind of hard to break up a Rotation when it just consists of that one crowd from the Bar, and nobody else. Even when "Newbies" and "Outsiders" came in for the Karaoke, they would usher them to join on the stage with them... so everyone was welcome there. At other places where I had hosted, when it started to get too busy, I would try to get some of the people to break up their Duets and do Solo Songs instead. I would let them get the occasional Duet in, but I would try to discourage them from doing 2 Duets within the same Rotation (when I had a Rotation of over 8 people). But, regardless of how it played out, I always announced whose turn it was, and would add that "This is John's turn, and John asked Mary to join him on the stage for this song." I would do the same when it was Mary's turn, and she asked John (or anybody else) to sing with her for her turn.

The only time I didn't let people sing duet's multiple timess was when the
wait time between songs started to crawl past 50 minutes, which didn't happen to me very often.

When it did happen, I would explain VERY clearly that each person got 1 turn per rotation, and that anyone who wanted to sing a duet that would count as both their turns.

Never had any complaints either way..

My theory is that as long as you are consistent, and make sure that the rules are clear to everyone, most people will not complain.

of course, there are always exceptions

-James

In my experience, every time that I've been in the company of People like Jenny Amy and Sally; one of them always seems to be the one singing lead on every song and the other two people are just there to facilitate their leader's ability to take advantage of a KJ who doesn't care enough to put a stop to it. I guess that makes me a Diva too because I would rather hear all three of them sing solos instead of tri-ettes. I've seen some women work the entire bar, asking non-singers to put up "duets" under the other person's name, of course. Then she gets up there and sings the entire song while her "partner" stands there smiling at her. If you have a mic in your hand, you've had your turn for that rotation. It's always the same people who seem to be the "helpers" on these multiple duet loop holes and the people they help never seem to want to sing alone when their "friend" isn't there.

Yeah, I have seen that as well, but when I do see it, I put a stop to it. Like I said earlier, if I call your name up to sing, you BETTER be singing the lead vocal or I will remove you from the rotation, plain and simple.

I agree with everything except the highlighted piece. I have no issue letting the same person up more than once during a rotation so long as they are actually backing someone else up outside of their solo track.

I have a lot of great singers that back up people regularly. They know how to tone things down so they aren't stealing the limelight from the main singer. They don't go around asking to back people up either. They get asked by other patrons, and that is fine by me. But I will mention it to singers and backup folks if it starts to get out of hand because perceptions still have to be managed.

_________________
-Chris

There will always be exceptions to every rule. Two people singing "I GOT YOU BABE" or "SUMMER NIGHTS" Is usually a fun time for everyone. When the same three people get up together and sing three songs that are typically songs that are sung by only one person and there is obviously a lead singer in this trio; it's gets old really quickly for the rest of the rotation, where everyone else is happy to just sing one song and wait their turn. Nobody enjoys watching Sally and her two backup singers sing three songs in a row. When Sally is always Diana Ross and her two friends are always relegated to being the Supremes, it's just an obvious attempt at getting Diana Ross more of the stage time than anyone else. It's kind of ironic that the OP considers the people who don't want to hear Diana Ross sing three songs per rotation as the Divas.

I HATE that crappola! Happens a lot here. Makes it harder to deal with they're singing "hawaiian-style" from their seats and i've got to be at the soundboard.

There are two people who solicit others and put the other person's name first and sometimes only that persons name, then asks for another mic. Drives me crazy!

But it is much harder to police that kinda thing when it gets busy. Only a couple complaints at first, (mostly from staff), but now i see others starting to contemplate it so they'll get more singing time.

How does a kj "nip-it-in-the-bud" to the most popular and social singer in the bar?

Everybody likes her and she gets non-singers to sing because she's able to work the bar the entire time. Actually helps make my job easier by soliciting others non-stop and encouraging them to sing and dance. It works. Hell...i should hire her!

The other one is not as good at soliciting regular people, but she's cute and the guys fall for her everytime. both these women hurt but at the same time help the show.

Has anyone tried calling the divas out?

I mean, as a host or provider, you have access to, and control of, the microphones, so why not use them? If one of these divas is repeatedly getting up with others and 'stealing' their turn, take the opportunity between songs to make a joke about it. "Well, Jenny sounds a lot like Sally, don't you think folks?" or "Let's hear it for Paul for holding the mic for Jenny!" That way, the people who might complain know that you are aware of the situation, and have publicly said something about it, and doing so lightheartedly can help diffuse the complainers. The mic hogs know that you're onto their game, but you haven't been jerky or confrontational, nor expressly told them to stop. It just puts all the cards on the table. It's like "Hey, you found a loophole, good for you, now everyone in here knows that you are 'cheating'.

Every time that group of 6 or 7 girls comes up on stage to sng together, we take the opportunity to remind them that our 2 mics probably can't pick up all of them, especially the ones in the back row. It doesn't change anyones behavior, and we certainly wouldn't bar anyone from performing, but it just kind of shows everyone in the place why things are the way they are. Have fun, ladies, here we go...

You have to set your rules and stick with it. I only allowed one song per singer period for years but changed it to one song and one with someone else per rotation. If someone tried to put their name in with several people, I would talk to those people and tell them they would have to wait unless they wanted to do something by themselves.

I had a group that used to come in. Each person would put a song in, then the group would get up and sing every song. They got me in the first rotation one night but after that I had their number. One of them came up and asked when they were going to get to do their song and I told them it would need to be the next rotation, but only if they did it by themselves. Of course that didn't go over very well but I told them the rules. They tried it one other night and I never saw them again after that.

SOME PEOPLE TREAT KARAOKE LIKE A CONTEST TO SEE WHO CAN GET ON STAGE MORE OFTEN THAN ANYONE ELSE.

I treat my rotation exactly as Vince has described. And only the divas have complained that it isn't fair. Oddly enough, they have all been men! In the scenario I described, I really didn't see it as being a big deal, as THERE WERE ONLY FIVE SINGERS. I will monitor group singing a little more once I reach the hour breaking point in the rotation so it doesn't appear I am playing favorites.

At my Saturday show at the new venue, we had 33 singers, some of which were group singers. Of course I got THREE phone calls right after the show from a diva bitching about the fact that they didn't get to sing enough because we let groups of people go up. Too bad! Go to one of my slower nights! I have had these people threaten that they will make me lose my show for my "unfair" practices. Mind you, they are drinking sodas, and the groups of singers are actually spending money. I don't think their complaints would pull much weight. Sadly, the 3 biggest divas I deal with were ALL there that Saturday. Ugh.