Karaoke Forums

I am not a contest guy. Have never run one. Would rather not ever run one. But I have one venue that I recently picked up that has run an annual contest every year for the last 10 years. So I will be doing a contest starting in January.

This is not intended to be a debate about whether to do or not do because *I Will Be Doing A Contest*.

What I am interested in is educating myself more on contests in general. If this one works out, I will entertain the idea of running more contests at other locations. So I want to propose some questions.

1) Where does the prize money come from? Particularly when there is $3000, $5000, $10000 dollars on the line.

2) Do you (the KJ) ever put money toward a contest?

3) Do judges get compensated or volunteer? Which works best?

That is a good start

-Chris

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-Chris

1. The prize money does NOT come from you (the KJ). That's on the Venue's head. Whether they front the money (or high valued prize, such as Big Screen TV, or maybe a paid vacation to some nice destination (and I'm not talking about those BS Vacation Vouchers)), it's on the Venue to either do it or find a Sponsor to donate it to them.

2. Some KJs (in this Forum) have mentioned that they have donated some small ticket items towards the contests they have run. Some have even offered a split with the Venue on prizes such as $25 and $50 Gift Certificates to be used at that Venue (on a future date of visit). That's something you have to decide if you want to or are willing to do.

3. As far as I know, unless they are some kind of known Celebrity, about the only compensation usually offered is a free meal at the Venue or maybe a few free drinks. To sate what I just said in item # 1, that should be held squarely on the Venue Owner's/Manager's head. Most of the Judges used at a Contest are Locals who usually are Regulars at the Venue or Friends of the KJ or friends of the Venue Owners/Managers. Now that fact alone will lead you to think about some more questions on how to pick your Judges.

Usually these bigger prize contests are some kind of sponsored event that involves multiple locations that buy in (which goes toward prizes and event costs) - example the Evergreen Idol that has been run in Washington for the past few years. I think one year it was a $2000 prize, the next it was a $1000 prize and be a 5 song opening act for a major touring act - our finalist actually won the state championship one year & opened for Diamond Rio at the Evergreen State Fair. The next year our finalist took 2nd place at state and won $500. The opening act was for Peter Frampton that year. We haven't been involved in that one for a while.
Smaller prizes (under $1000) are usually given by the bar.

No not as a rule. I have done impromtu contests where I might throw out $20 or $25 for a prize, but it's ultimately the bars responsibility!

Judges should at least get comp'd a meal & maybe a drink or two. Depending on the size of the contest, you should have at least 3 judges, if you have lots of entries, more judges at least for the finals. I try to use the same judges week to week if possible. Preferrably judges with at least some kind of music experience - karaoke friendly local musicians (yes they do exist), local radio personalities (college radio works too), vocal instructors, recording engineers/producers, etc.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Since- as you have posted- I cannot comment on the pros and cons of contests, I will only say that you have been hired specifically to deal with it, and you should expect whatever benefits that come your way to dissipate quickly. Take the money while you can.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Not if done properly. We run contests all the time with no grave results!

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

If there is any decent level of money and advertising involved, expect the local professional singers to come out of the wordworks, and don't give your normal patrons the false hope that they have any chance of winning.

The one and only contest I ran back in 2004 had $450 on the line ($300 first place, $100 second, $50 third), and that attracted about a dozen professional singers, most with record deals. The normal karaoke people never had a chance. The next weekend, I went to another karaoke bar running a contest with similar prize money, and the exact same professional singers were there. Again, even the best normal karaoke singers didn't have a chance in hell.

I can see this not being an issue in smaller towns, or with less publicized/lower monetary events, but if you are giving away significant money and do any level of advertising, expect to go ahead and market this towards the professional musician community, not the bar crowd. Let your normal patrons know that it will be fun for them to compete against the pros to hopefully manage their expectations, but be straightforward that there WILL be pros competing.

As far as judges, most contests I've seen with any level of sponsership has been judged by "local celebrity" types, like a local DJ, weather guy, sports team cheerleaders, etc.. I don't think they are typically paid, just given free food and drinks. It helps when the karaoke contest also has a charity component so you can ask for more people to donate their time.

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C Mc
KJ, FL

The reason I asked about the money is because I have seen several very high dollar prize contests being advertised here recently. I can't imagine the bar alone putting the money up, and I know karaoke hosts aren't putting it up. I suspected sposors but wanted input in case there was some other obvious source I was overlooking.

-Chris

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-Chris

You could always apply a rule that Contestants must have patronized the show on three other occasions to help keep the pros at bay. Having to attend three other times would probably be too much work for a $400 payout. Then again, having musicians in and tasting good sounding karaoke could lead to a singer upgrade. I used to have lots of band members at my show. Rarely was it lead singers, but lots of drummers\keyboardists\guitarists. They aren't very reliable. If they have a gig they are going to gig.

This is very unrealistic. Your bar is not going to want you to run off people just because they aren't normal patrons of the bar. In fact, most of the time the exact reason the bar wants to have the contest and give away $$$ is to attract those that wouldn't normally patron the bar.

If you want to keep the pros away and just do a contest for your normal patrons, just make it low stakes, like $50/$25 bar tabs. Why would you have a high stakes contest for your normal patrons? There's almost no ROI there!

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C Mc
KJ, FL

I would think that if you could get good singers to visit more than just show night then it could be worth it. Having good singers show up for one night isn't much of an RIO either.

On larger contests we have required a $5 entry fee for anyone getting into it on the preliminary qualifiers. If there were semi final & finals rounds, no charge for those.

Contests are some of the very reasons we got some of good singers as regulars, because they sound good over the PA & we had a quality selection over some of the places that use crap like SGB type stuff for the library.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Multiple rounds works better if you want to put the added time into it. Then you either take time away from your regular singers on regular nights or run the prelims before shows or on off nights. The point is you can't let a pro walk in and make some chunk in one night. You'll never see them again. Define your goals for the contest and develop the plan around it. What do you want to get out of it? If it's just to gain a some new regulars then keep the pot low. When all the singers are even you need to be prepared for some ticked off regulars. They already think they are the best singers in the place. If you want to gain some talented part time singers go after the local musicians. I find them to be some of the most easy going crowd pleasers you can get. They are used to being on the stage and this isn't their one shot a week. If you want to draw them, then advertise in the local music rags and have the prelims and contest on a non band night. Tuesdays are pretty good for that kind of thing. If you can't mix them on good sound then don't bother. If you are just wanting to throw some money away on a great night of talented singers, hold a single night for something like $400 or more.

Our one bar is doing a contest in a different way. Over ten weeks, if you sing, you get to pick a card out of a deck. At the end of the ten weeks, whoever has the best "poker" hand (assuming you consider this some weird "ten card stud (but with repeating cards)" thing poker). In order to win, you must be present for five weeks (that is, enough to have enough cards to have a winning hand). The top prize is $100 cash.

It seems to be bringing in more people, but it's making the rotation rather long. Like often said about contests here, you can't please everyone while doing one, but I imagine the bar's bottom line has improved somewhat, as karaoke nights have taken a bit of a hit now that a new bar opened in town.

(I may just be bitter because right now I only have roughly a 15% chance of winning.)

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Co-host of The Greatest Song Ever Sung (Poorly), a karaoke-themed podcast

Fantastic idea with the Poker Run concept.

The contest I have run ...I have one night where anyone can sing who want to be in the contest...12 will make it every week one is removed until there are six ...Semi finals...Broadway Night...dressing up is worth 10 points extra..Finals are songs from the current year.
I would also advise to get judges who are in the music field or local djs
warning...When I comes to contest there always going to be those who are mad because they don't win...get ready for this

Topher, why is that very unrealistic? I have been to Contests where that HAS BEEN a rule in order to qualify... that you must be in attendance at least 3 visits (usually out of the 10 or 12 weeks that it takes to run the Contest).

As to your logic about running people off, well, if they were "Ringers" who only look for high-end Contests to compete in, they usually are looking to make just a One-Time appearance. You're NOT running them off if that was their intention in the first place. They weren't planning on coming back (except to win in the Finals). The Bar isn't losing any money on people like that (who come in one time, and take the money and run). Now, by enforcing that 3 visit rule, you are now making those "Ringers" show up more times than they had intended to, and thus, they will probably spend a few dollars while being there. If anything, that WOULD BE attracting people to come to the Venue. Now the Venue would be making something off of them.

NEVER ALLOW BAR PATRONS TO JUDGE YOUR CONTESTS!!!! I have been in contests where bar regulars would be judges. It always ends up unfair. They pick their friends, not the truly talented ones. I watched, in one contest, a regular win the competition after having sung Sherry and cracking 4 times, and going off key several times, while this girl sang I Will Always Love you, pitch perfect, great personality, and who got a standing ovation for her performance, got second place. Karma bit him in the (@$%&#!), though. He went on to the next level, ( this was a Pioneer sponsored contest back in 1995), at a different bar. He got his butt handed to him by a regular from that bar, who had a light show, took off his shirt and sang Livin' On A Prayer. I laughed when I heard that.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

the guy with the most friends or the female with the shortest skirt and smallest waistline wins the contest.
insert in new venue, rinse and repeat.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Couldn't agree more. I've run many contests and strongly advise against it. There is no fair way to judge. Karaoke is something you come to do, not come to watch. I suggest that you just do your best, be unquestionably honest, and drink a lot.

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Okay, who took my pants?

Guys, again, he's not asking for opinion! He said it IS happening, doesn't want to hear your bad experiences.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!