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I cannot for the life of me understand why this topic becomes a flamer- It makes no sense to me at all.

Either you want to be rated or you dont; click the box or dont.

This is very simple, and no one should be begrudging anyones choice on the matter- Elisha I loved your ideas on it, and think that its BIZARRE that people get so up in arms over it.

PEOPLE WE COME HERE TO WIND DOWN!!! WHO CARES ABOUT WHO WANTS TO BE OR NOT BE RATED?!?!?

This is such a moot topic really.

I like my hair black with red stripes. This is a personal choice for me.

Ratings are NO different.

I hope nobody tries to virtually stab me because they dont like my hair .

I love all of you, and I love this site.

Elisha you rock- lets hope everyone can try and let it all GOOOO. TO EACH HIS OWN.

Everyone count to 10 and BREATHE .

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When SingersShowcase first opened I was pretty vocal about my opinions about the ratings... which is why I've kept my mouth shut about this... it just seems to go round and round.... the same issues keep popping up! As long as friends are rating friends there is gonna be a sea of 10's on the front page and Heaven forbid someone starts to dole out 9's... it starts to look like there is a trouble maker amongst us ! I stopped getting rated as soon as Phill implemented the option and have been happy as can be ever since... nor do I rate other's... it's just not what I want or why I'm here. The problem with letting 'everybody' rate... is that some will feel that friends or "cliques" will rate their friends higher then say new or unpopular members.... I have seen it YES! That is the way of the jungle ! You cannot stop that as long as it is up to each individual to rate what they feel... and that is their right to do so... but others will complain! Also... in the past... we had a "rater" who was extremely harsh... and so the few people that this person would rate were penalized... when others with submissions that were less than perfect received 10's .... these stellar submissions were receiving 7's.... that's not fair either. So the top singers list is really a novelty... all you need to do to be on it is delete any songs that are less then 10 and viola! I would prefer no ratings at all since it seems that it only causes trouble... remember the "panel"? Oi! This was where a group of us formed a panel and were anonymous and gave HONEST evaluations and opinions about the songs we listened to! Although most people want honest critiques... when they got one ... all Hell broke loose and friends were lost! Some CAN and do appreciate it... but it seems most don't! I remember telling one girl... (not anonymously) that she had some pitch problems.... and the rest of the members jumped all over me.. saying they "didn't hear ANY pitch problems" I felt awful for saying it!!!! Even questioned my own judgment... went back and listened again... turned out.. she was even worse the second listen ! But why say anything if I am going to look like an evil person doing so... so I learned to just tell her she was doing great.... we took all the critiques to PM because she truly appreciated them! But it seemed the other members thought I was attacking her... so.. I guess my preference is to live in peace and harmony and NOT RATE... glad we have the option so I am a happy camper.... I'll let you guys duke this one out.... I'll be watchin'!

I respect your opinion. I documented my methods on a long, crazy thread, probably won't get read, but I prefer everyone getting along and if it means trashing the ratings, so be it; even if it means I can't get good critical responses and help. Hmm that was my reason for getting on here in the first place, but it is great fun too.

Here's an idea, just pump that emotion into a kickin' new sub

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It's better to burn out...than fade away

Jazzy sweetie...i have experienced much of the same problems on another site and i made myself swear when i moved over here that i would not get involved in disputes and i would try and be less vocal about things because i did feel that i was alianated for my views, and now here i am gassing in forums olol....i think you come up with ideas to try and please everyone and sweetheart that is just not gonna happen...i soon realised this and spent many a sleepless night and for what? ...even here if you dare put something slightly negative towards someones performance you will get jumped on because people hear things / music very differently and this is why i believe ratings a heap of crap....many many time and even here ive left little negative remarks then felt very worried because i have not wanted to upset and offend....i do find sarcasm offensive because the British on the whole are not a sarcastic race it is to me the lowest form of wit i would rather someone just be straight out and honest and if it hurts deal with it and understand its their opinion, but now i understand this is a multi national site and everyone and everyones personalities are so very different...i am now of the mind...let people rate if they want to i personally believe words can express just what a 10 can...and if you don't want to rate as i don't the option is there...even with the rating system people do not leave on the whole leave tips on improvement and the reason why? because no-one wants to offend or hurt someone for trying their hardest... ya know jazzy your the only person in my few months of online sites that has actualy given me constructive comments even though i didnt ask for them i was well impressed because i knew you had listened to my song begining to end and you had picked out the one part myself that i believed let my performance slide slightly and ya know what lassie that was when i first thought...i really admire that girl shes straight and she's bloody honest and she is listening ...thats the difference ... sooo fear not jazzy i think everything you have said or done was for what you believed is the good of everyone

Lately I hear ever so often when I comment on a sub "AllStar, are you getting soft" and "AllStar, you are scaring me, you liked the mix??"

No, I'm not getting soft, just tired.......tired of having to be carefull. I cannot remember who wants to hear up-building critique. So many great members, and at my age, the memory

Can I hijack this thread? Please? Purty please?

I left a very honest and non-sarcastic reply at the end of the other thread. I'll repeat the quote here because I think it applies:

"What has always struck me about singing is the fact that it is so personal, and that there is not one degree of seperation between the singer and the instrument. Learning to sing places one in a vulnerable position..."

Singing is very personal which is why there is so much difference of opinion.

I agree with the majority here.

You rank, or you don't. Simple!

If you ask yourself to be ranked, you might bet disappointed if people are really honest.

I personally ASK that people are as honest as can be with my subs. If I get a series of sixes on one song, guess that means I wasn't very good that time!

Jazzy, this whole thing started when there were posts such as "I won't support" soandso and the infamous thread of courtesy if I listen to your song do me the courtesy of listening to mine. It's topics like that that stirred up this hornet's nest. If you can't understand it, I'm sorry, but that did irk some of us. And finally, some people started speaking their mind. Ironically, there is a lot of "background" support of people that don't want to fully speak their mind here, because they're afraid of being ostracized from the community!

I just am tired of the bickering between BOTH camps. I think we've all said our piece. Thanks for being here, and I for one am glad to see that you are so passionate about this place.

It's the first site I come to on the net nowadays! Even before email! !

OMG, I know how you feel!

I did that once too...I made a comment to one guy one time (not here) about his timing being off...and the next three people who commented said there was nothing wrong at all, making me look like a complete jerk! (I think I have posted this before !)

That was the day I decided that honesty seems not to be the best policy....and you don't know who can accept it or not!

I remember my first sub on "the other site". I remember I subbed Unwanted First, and then Miss Independent. I remember these "panelists" telling me everything that was wrong with the song, and even pointing out the exact places I was pitchy.

I remember my first reaction too "How Dare They! What do they know!", which then turned to...."what the hell am I saying! I am so pitchy in that spot" After that, I looked forward to see what all those "panelists" were going to say when I subbed a song. It made me want to work harder to impress them.

I also think that I could post my most awful sub in the world, and everyone would still love it just as much....it is kinda like when your friend is wearing the ugliest shirt in the world, and they as yoy what you think, and you say "awesome" because you don't want to say anything to hurt their feelings.

I leave the 'Rate Me' box open because I do welcome anything. I believe that not everyone is going to like my voice, and yes, I am not a perfect singer, which is why I want people to tell me when things are wrong.

LIke, when I listen to the first few subs I ever made with CEP! ALLSTAR, if you heard them, you would die the mix is so bad.

No one has ever told me the mix was bad. Why, probably not to hurt my feelings, but in this case, I so wish someone did!

I don't get hurt feeling easily.....I have had more problems in real life than a few bad comments on my song.

I mean, don't get me wrong. There is definately nothing better than coming back to your song and seeing all of the wonderful comments that people leave! If they feel that my song is worth a 10, then thank you, and if you feel that my song is worth a 3, then thank you just as much.

I love everyone here, and I respect everyone for all their opinions and being brave enough to post them. I respect those who like to get rated, and those who chose not too.

And as for "not wanting to get hurt feelings" I get mad when my BF won't tell me if I sing bad. As far as I am concerned, he is the one person that I trust the most to tell me when I have sung horribly. If I sing a song that is not right for me, he tells me he did not like it. I don't get upset, I thank him, and then go and practice the song until I get it right.

He is my "average joe" listener. Another friend of mine also tells me when I don't sing well and what I can do to better myself. I LOVE IT! She is so experienced (as most of you are), and any help that I can get from her, I welcome! Sometimes I don't know how bad I am, and need someone to tell me!

When it comes down to ratings, no one is ever going to be happy. When you are used to getting 10's on every song, and then that one person comes in, who may be new to the site and goes along with the "honest critique" type stuff, and then gets slammed for giving "low" scores....I mean, it sucks.

Life will always be one big competition. Your job, school, and no one can ever tell me they have not tried hard to ever beat a sibling....I know I sure have had!

I have had FRIENDS mad at me for getting good on a test, for getting compliments that I sing well, and I have learned that it is not worth getting upset over. My god, I was in an online singing competition and every time I went to the front page, all over the Tag BOard was "Crystal Sucks!"

I don't know if I have made a point in my ramblings here.....I just think here, at this site where everyone is just looking to make friends and have fun, the ratings should go.

Unless everyone is here to try to be better than the next person that comes along, then bring the ratings in, but from the consensus that I have gotten from the site, that is not what it is all about

I am going to go listen to some subs now....as I am sure by the time it took me to type this, 10 have gone up !

Peace

Hey Ritisroo! Just a little side note to your comment about people leaving 'Crystal Sucks'...this happened to an awesome singer on a competition going on right now. (lawsy, it's down to the wire now and I keep waffling back and forth on who to vote for...) Anywhoo, take it as a compliment...people only do stuff like that 'cos they're jealous and it goes to prove how really great you were! Does that make sense?

Edited to correct spelling - where the bleep is Sheree when ya need her?

! The first time I saw that "Crystal Sucks" on the website, I actually came home from karaoke (drunk as a skunk mind you), and laughed my (@$%&#!) off! I thought it was so funny (it did get annoying though after awhile, and I did freak out on him, with support of others), but that definately is probably what it was....probably a jeleous girlfriend of one of the guy contestants !

I never worry about stuff like that....I believe that every singer is unique in their own way, and if someone does not like me, well, then nothing I can do

jazzy, as i'd mentioned in the other thread, i'm not personally a fan of the ratings system, but i do applaud your idea of a positive type of award to those subs who someone feels is worthy of note. i think you're on the right track for the issue of keeping it all positive rather than using the numbers or stars, which only serves to draw comparisons and/or indignation from the participants.

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"howwudiduppohdaddoh?"
buckwheat, 1938

Scratches her head...neither do you sweetie i think you know what i mean

Sorry MissyGG, I don't get your point here?

i did say my sarcastic skills need work olol....well what i meant was it appears neither do you like critique, you appeared to take offence when i offered my thoughts on a sub...you see the song was asking ...is this scottish enough...and i pointed out my thoughts...then it was changed to danish...which yes now it did sound danish...one person appreciated my honesty another not so...i thought oh shi...god i have offended someone by being honest....which takes me right back to the ratings and critique and everything else thats been discussed....i will use this space to say what a fantastic sub i thought it was however allstar from you and stan...had i known it wasn't meant to be sung in a scottish accent then i would have missed the bit out about the accent etc etc

MissyGG, Have you ever heard me speak American English? People here think I have a heavy accent. My heavy accent does not mean I can speak/sing in a Scottish accent, that's why it DIDN't sound Scottish. Where the Danish comes from, I do not know, you have me confused there, I am Dutch. You don't offend me by being honest, not at all. I had a ball doing that sub, like it or not.

Personally I think you have taking this slightly out of context. Over-reaction is never good.

As I commented in the sub


AllStar signing off...

Elisha, I said it to you before on the other thread and I reiterate, you are so chock-full of GOOD ideas, things that will open up people's minds and embrace new concepts.

I personally have stopped the ratings/rankings game cuz it's not for me. That doesn't mean I have to knock down anyone's ideas. For those of you that want to be ranked, any ideas to help improve this method is a wonderful thing. And I think that's what Elisha was tryiing to do. She's trying to appeal to those people. She wasn't asking if you want to be ranked or not. She's putting out her brainstorms for those that WANT to be ranked, am I not right, Elisha? At least that's what I understood from the beginning.

Those of you that don't want to be ranked (like me), you know who you are. Just hit the little button that expresses that desire. Period.

Here's my stand on this...
I can go both ways.. I have songs both ranked and unranked.. Some how my rankings of my songs have disappeared off the board... who cares.. I'm not in competition on this site...but in other sites where Charts & Spins count for Gold Records, and the like for Industry recognition... Heck Yes! I will fight "Tooth and Nail" and kiss butt for every place I can get (not that I like to) and BSP My way to the top (using Blatent Self Promotion)

Personally I Really honestly believe in my heart a fair system of scoring CAN be achieved that a majority can agree on without a bunch of fighting.. ALTHOUGH no matter what happens it's going to create some hard feelings.

Now I also have songs I don't allow ranking on for various reasons too..
of which I will not disclose..

Now as for Jazzy I feel for you and know where you are coming from.. And I fully appologize.. I hope you find it acceptable.

My Music is on approximately 45 different sites now, I see how they are run, thier ranking and voting systems and rules.
Like what I believe was said earlier... Please keep an open mind.. when all the ideas come out one by one... PLEASE weigh them out before making a decision.. but if you personally do have one yourself... PLEASE PUT IT UP...

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Brian D.
(BHB)

music on 45 sites sheesh mate and i thought i had no life ol sorry 45 sites ya are kidding right how on earth do you keep up let alone sleep or even record songs ....just curious like ol

(off topic reply to the above post)
My day is very structured... I wish to add this in case anyone didn't know..

My subs are done at home. On my time... sometimes 1-2 songs a night..

I work for the record label I'm signed to.. In Nashville... I have permission to promote 3 original songs of mine from a 10 song CD, to 45 internet sites that only allow "Original" music, World wide... This act has been going on for 4 months 96% of these sites don't even allow a properly licensed cover song. I can say this with confidence this is one the best and one most well organized sites in the world of it's kind.. be very happy it exists... and I advise to also be supportive of the people who run it.

Without them... Karaoke would not be where it is today, and alot of new artists would not be coming up in the industry, and future artists would not have thier dreams of making it.

No matter what is said online... In my heart I support deeply Karaoke 100% because I got my competition start here. Without it, I would not be any better of a singer, musician, or engineer... than I was in 1992.

I hope this makes anyone feel better as YET I am still not a star.. just another Indie Vocalist, Songwriter, Musician, and Recording Engineer...

Like it or not I also love karaoke too... and get my 7 hrs of sleep a night too.

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Brian D.
(BHB)