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Pirates Trolling shows
https://mail.karaokescene.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=28592		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  simpmech [ Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:40 am ]
Post subject:  Pirates Trolling shows
Had a "KJ" come to my show the other night (claimed to be a KJ but he is not in the Club). Wanted to sing all Sound Choice of course, and when I didn't have every song he wanted on SC he said I was killing him with my lack of music. He told me my next weekly show at this location he would be there to "give" me his loaded hard drive with over 100,000 karaoke tracks to download for free. When I respectfully declined and told him I run a legal show, am a real Karaoke Host and have no interest in becoming a pirate his response was that "he paid for his music too" and that if he had to pay for each song as I had it would cost a fortune.....(insert my thoughts here)..... :withstupid:
Author:  The Lone Ranger [ Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pirates Trolling shows
8) How do you know it was a pirate tolling your show? It could have been a SC investigator seeing if you would take the bait concerning an illegal hard drive.
Author:  Cueball [ Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pirates Trolling shows
The Lone Ranger wrote:
8) How do you know it was a pirate tolling your show? It could have been a SC investigator seeing if you would take the bait concerning an illegal hard drive.
What you are referring to is entrapment, and from all of the past postings here regarding SC investigations(for over 3 years now), entrapment is not SC's style. If I missed something, please be so kind as to post the URL that contains the exact post describing such activity.
Author:  chrisavis [ Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pirates Trolling shows
The Lone Ranger wrote:
8) How do you know it was a pirate tolling your show? It could have been a SC investigator seeing if you would take the bait concerning an illegal hard drive.


This is EXACTLY the kind of made up crap I was talking about in another thread.

-Chris
Author:  djjeffross [ Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pirates Trolling shows
It's not hard to see by reading just a few posts on this forum that anything 'The Lone Ranger' posts instantly touches a few nerves. I'm not inclined to agree that SC is now using entrapment as it's new M.O. but it does have validity as a statement. Unless of course you believe that every SC investigator is above board or that another "KJ" is not above "setting up" another KJ by just giving him pirated karaoke and then turning him in via whatever methods are used these days (website, phone message, etc ..).

I didn't get the impression that he was making up a "fact" that it was a SC investigator using that tactic at all or even referring to SC having used entrapment in the past. I just read a statement that said "maybe" it was a SC investigator.

GASP ... maybe it was Kurt himself on the Troll : ) Highly unlikely I'm sure but I said it anyway. While your gearing up your attack on me for such blasphemy let me just say, in all likelihood, it was a young, foolish KJ wannabe who wanted to "help" out another KJ who didn't have 1,000,000 karaoke tracks. In his mind, everyone who doesn't isn't running a good show.

Now have a very nice rest of the day ...
Author:  chrisavis [ Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pirates Trolling shows
djjeffross - It's all in the history and the tone. I can tell (or can I?) that you are being somewhat sarcastic in tone about it and so I can laugh it off like most will.

But it is obvious, even to new people such as yourself, that Lone Ranger has a history here that ruffles more than a few feathers. I will leave it at that and let you continue to observe and form your own opinion about him (and the rest of us for that matter) based on his posts and our replies.

Welcome to the forums!

-Chris
Author:  Lonman [ Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pirates Trolling shows
I have had kj's come in wanting to trade disc libraries to burn from the 90's to offering me hard drives like mentioned in the OP - same type of scenerio with same type of 'why do you pay that much' answer. I don't believe they are investigators - just dumbass kj's.
I always declined the disc trade in the 90's - main reason - WHY on Earth would I want my competition to have the exact same stuff I had! As far as hard drives go, i'm still getting people telling me I have more than what those 100K song kj's have with my 14K song selection.
Author:  The Lone Ranger [ Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pirates Trolling shows
cueball wrote:
The Lone Ranger wrote:
8) How do you know it was a pirate tolling your show? It could have been a SC investigator seeing if you would take the bait concerning an illegal hard drive.
What you are referring to is entrapment, and from all of the past postings here regarding SC investigations(for over 3 years now), entrapment is not SC's style. If I missed something, please be so kind as to post the URL that contains the exact post describing such activity.



8) You mean cue that all of SC investigators have been of the highest morale integrity. If that is the case then why did SC feel compelled to sue APS for stealing from them? If you hire a thief to catch a thief you can't expect your hired hand to have any higher standards than the person they are trying to catch, can you? Besides it's only entrapment if they actually sell you the hard drive. If you seem open to the idea it would be safe to think if you are an investigator that the host might be a pirate, or at least can be corrupted. That could warrant further investigation.
Author:  Alan B [ Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pirates Trolling shows
chrisavis wrote:
The Lone Ranger wrote:
8) How do you know it was a pirate tolling your show? It could have been a SC investigator seeing if you would take the bait concerning an illegal hard drive.


This is EXACTLY the kind of made up crap I was talking about in another thread.

-Chris

I don't see anything wrong in what The Lone Ranger stated. While not likely, the possibility still remains that it could of been a set-up.
Author:  The Lone Ranger [ Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pirates Trolling shows
8) A red flag to me would be the person wanting to sing all SC. How many people come into a show and insist on singing just one manu's product? I would have told the person I carry no SC and I would wait to see how long he hung around, or maybe he would try to sell me a hard drive, or better yet a gold ring, like the guys used to do in the parking lot.
Author:  Lonman [ Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pirates Trolling shows
I get SC preferred requestors nightly. Wouldn't seem odd to me in the slightest.
Author:  The Lone Ranger [ Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pirates Trolling shows
8) I don't, the only manu I have ever had requested by name is DK, everyone seems satisfied with my selection, and have had no complaints about not carrying SC, that is going on 19 years now.
Author:  Lonman [ Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pirates Trolling shows
The Lone Ranger wrote:
8) I don't, the only manu I have ever had requested by name is DK, everyone seems satisfied with my selection, and have had no complaints about not carrying SC, that is going on 19 years now.

You have an older crowd though. DK did ok on those oldie tunes.
Back when it was just Pioneer vs DK, I had Pioneer preferred requestors (still get a handful of those once in a while as well - one guy says if it isn't on Pioneer, he isn't singing lol - yes he only sings song from the late 90's on back). But I don't get complaints if I don't have something on SC, I just said 'preferred' choice - meaning they ask if I have it on SC, that's what they would like. If I don't have it on SC, they will either sing it anyway (if it warrants replacing i'll do so) or they will simply pick something else. If it's a good customer, I may try to find the song on the brand they prefer beit SC or another brand.
Author:  chrisavis [ Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pirates Trolling shows
Alan B - Fair enough. You are entitled to your interpretation and opinion.

*My* interpretation and opinion of Lone Ranger's comment is that historically he has had almost nothing positive to say about SC. The comment about it being an investigation is nothing more than a guess, speculation, and then fabricating a scenario around it. It is also probably another attempt to just say something negative about SC in hopes that Harrington will respond so that Lone Ranger has someone to play with.

Lone Ranger - I prefer Pioneer and Sound Choice over most brands. If I go to a karaoke bar that doesn't have Sound Choice, it reduces my desire to sing greatly It also has an impact on variety since many songs I like to sing are only on Sound Choiuce. I will also generally not go back to that karaoke bar as well.

-Chris
Author:  Smoothedge69 [ Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pirates Trolling shows
I have to say that I am enjoying Zoom. They have stepped up their game and many of their songs are BETTER than Sound Choice quality. Whenever I need something, the first version I look for is Zoom, now.
Author:  Alan B [ Sat Sep 07, 2013 1:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pirates Trolling shows
Smoothedge69 wrote:
I have to say that I am enjoying Zoom. They have stepped up their game and many of their songs are BETTER than Sound Choice quality. Whenever I need something, the first version I look for is Zoom, now.

I totally agree with you about the quality of Zoom. I have several tracks by them including the Hits Of The Eagles CD, which is awesome. I don't know what all the fuss is about the SC version and why fools, I mean people, were willing to spend mega dollars for it but, IMO the Zoom version is just as good or better.

So yes, I do agree with you that Zoom is one of the top choices for music.
Author:  The Lone Ranger [ Sat Sep 07, 2013 2:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pirates Trolling shows
chrisavis wrote:
Alan B - Fair enough. You are entitled to your interpretation and opinion.

*My* interpretation and opinion of Lone Ranger's comment is that historically he has had almost nothing positive to say about SC. The comment about it being an investigation is nothing more than a guess, speculation, and then fabricating a scenario around it. It is also probably another attempt to just say something negative about SC in hopes that Harrington will respond so that Lone Ranger has someone to play with.

Lone Ranger - I prefer Pioneer and Sound Choice over most brands. If I go to a karaoke bar that doesn't have Sound Choice, it reduces my desire to sing greatly It also has an impact on variety since many songs I like to sing are only on Sound Choiuce. I will also generally not go back to that karaoke bar as well.

-Chris


8) If you want to leave because there is no SC Chris that's your right as a consumer. It will make things easier for me since, I very often have more singers than I can handle, and the waiting time is quite often over 2 hours.
What really gets me is that most of the hosts believe anything and everything about pirates. That it's trolling if a pirate is at a club. I would hope that investigators would be at venues checking out hosts carefully before they file suits. It seems to be a matter of semantics it's trolling if a pirate does a certain activity, and it's an investigation when the manus are engaged in the same activity.


It is ok for judge Wright to say SC is trolling for suits, if I say that is the case everyone thinks it's a bunch of hog wash. I don't think it is really fair to say I have nothing positive to say about SC. I never said they didn't have a right to try to recover money that was lost to them due to piracy. I even gave them a solution to the problem which of course was rejected by the majority of hosts here, because it made too much sense, amnesty at a small price with no audit. Guess what a version of my idea has been adopted by the legal process manus. You can either license GEM, or you can subscribe to Cloud for a smaller price than the legal hosts paid, no audit, and all your past sins are forgiven. You are washed in the blood of the manus, and of course the legal hosts that supported them. I don't support SC Chris because I don't like the way they have conducted themselves with this legal process of theirs. I think I will like PR even less, since they seem to be even more unbending than SC and will require all hosts that use the CB DTE product to have to sign up to some sort of monthly payment to be verified and vetted. This latest trick of PR is a real hoot, you pay $175.00 for an audit and it is only good for the day the audit is conducted, what is that all about? That would be a great deal for a host that only planned on being in business one day. If you pay monthly though no audit and you get placed on the vetted list, see where this is going. They want everyone paying into their little system. If they can get everyone paying in over 10 years I calculate they will earn over a quarter of a billion dollars. That is all pay off money so you won't be bothered by them or their lawyers. They just provide the service and collect the money, they don't have to produce any new product, just talk the producers of the new product into contracting with Cloud.
Author:  Cueball [ Sat Sep 07, 2013 4:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pirates Trolling shows
Alan B wrote:
I totally agree with you about the quality of Zoom. I have several tracks by them including the Hits Of The Eagles CD, which is awesome.
Zoom has 2 Eagles discs (#s 40 and 50), and then there's the Don Henley Disc on its own (# 41). I especially love the fact that they made 2 versions of "Stairway to Heaven" (a long version and a short version (where they cut out the long musical outro)).

Alan B wrote:
I don't know what all the fuss is about the SC version and why fools, I mean people, were willing to spend mega dollars for it...
I've pretty much said the same thing multiple times in this Forum, and I have even pointed out that there are other brands out there of (IMO) equal quality for those song tracks. Some of the answers I got back were:
It's a Collector's item
To become "Legal"
Author:  Cueball [ Sat Sep 07, 2013 4:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pirates Trolling shows
The Lone Ranger wrote:


You mean cue that all of SC investigators have been of the highest morale integrity. If that is the case then why did SC feel compelled to sue APS for stealing from them? If you hire a thief to catch a thief you can't expect your hired hand to have any higher standards than the person they are trying to catch, can you? Besides it's only entrapment if they actually sell you the hard drive. If you seem open to the idea it would be safe to think if you are an investigator that the host might be a pirate, or at least can be corrupted. That could warrant further investigation.



Firstly, don't go putting words in my mouth. I NEVER said that SC investigators have been of the highest morality (I never met them or saw them in action, so I am not in a position to judge). I just said that, based on 3 years worth of posts in this forum, entrapment was not SC's style (maybe I should have added the words "I believe that..." in front of my statement).

Secondly, as for your bringing up APS, this has NOTHING to do with this topic. Quit trying to deflect and redirect to make your argument.

Thirdly, with regard to the belief that SC has used entrapment tactics during/in their investigations,
cueball wrote:
If I missed something, please be so kind as to post the URL that contains the exact post describing such activity.
Author:  The Lone Ranger [ Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pirates Trolling shows
cueball wrote:
The Lone Ranger wrote:


You mean cue that all of SC investigators have been of the highest morale integrity. If that is the case then why did SC feel compelled to sue APS for stealing from them? If you hire a thief to catch a thief you can't expect your hired hand to have any higher standards than the person they are trying to catch, can you? Besides it's only entrapment if they actually sell you the hard drive. If you seem open to the idea it would be safe to think if you are an investigator that the host might be a pirate, or at least can be corrupted. That could warrant further investigation.



Firstly, don't go putting words in my mouth. I NEVER said that SC investigators have been of the highest morality (I never met them or saw them in action, so I am not in a position to judge). I just said that, based on 3 years worth of posts in this forum, entrapment was not SC's style (maybe I should have added the words "I believe that..." in front of my statement).

Secondly, as for your bringing up APS, this has NOTHING to do with this topic. Quit trying to deflect and redirect to make your argument.

Thirdly, with regard to the belief that SC has used entrapment tactics during/in their investigations,
cueball wrote:
If I missed something, please be so kind as to post the URL that contains the exact post describing such activity.


8) Isn't that the core of the debate the actual integrity of the SC investigators? I bring up APS not to deflect but to illustrate the type of employees that SC has hired in the past. The basis of SC's contract with APS required that they had to reach certain goals in order to maintain exclusive rights to handle SC's legal process. They couldn't meet the goals so they had to cut corners, that is why among other reasons they no longer represent SC. It amazes me that most hosts believe that every evil in the industry can be laid at the door step of the pirates. You can make up any story about a pirate and it is believable. If you even venture the idea that it could have be a manu investigator instead, the whole idea is too far fetched to be even considered. It is not entrapment unless you are physically trying to sell a hard drive. To mention the idea of a hard drive to see the reaction of the host is not entrapment, it's covertly asking a question to a suspect. The job of the undercover investigator is not to blow his cover is it? You can't provide any evidence on the other hand that it was not a SC investigator, can you? If the originator of the thread can suppose the patron was a pirate, I think it is just as legit for me to suppose he might be a manu investigator it's all speculation after all. I find it amusing that you rely on 3 years of posts with no mention of SC using entrapment tactics, as proof it isn't or has never occurred. If a host is in business 20 years and merely sued by the manus, most hosts believe he or she is indeed a pirate, that the manus don't make mistakes, see the double standard?
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