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Various Formats
https://mail.karaokescene.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=28540		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  SinCitySteve [ Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Various Formats
I've just been perusing karaoke music vendors and was wondering what is the difference between the different formats (ie. CD+G, MP3+G, MP4 Video, etc.)? Is there a difference in quality? Can you only use certain formats in certain software?

Thanks!
Author:  Cueball [ Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Various Formats
CD+G is in a Disc format.
MP3+G and MP4+G is a downloadable digital format for your computer.
Author:  Lonman [ Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Various Formats
Video format is usually a higher quality music wise and better graphic swipes over mp3g/cdg.
Author:  Bazza [ Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Various Formats
SinCitySteve wrote:
I've just been perusing karaoke music vendors and was wondering what is the difference between the different formats


99% of pros use:

CD+G <-- The CD karaoke format used in old school Karaoke CD players.
MP3+G <-- The computer equivalent of the above for use in PC Karaoke hosting software. <Now the industry standard>

Any other formats are in the 1% professionally, although slowly gaining ground.

SinCitySteve wrote:
Is there a difference in quality?


Absolutely. CD's are "CD quality" as they are a linear device. MP3's can be just as good, or horrible depending on the bit rate. Stick with 256kbps or better and you will be just fine in a normal party environment.

SinCitySteve wrote:
Can you only use certain formats in certain software?


Again, most software deals with MP3+G. Some can handle other formats as well but the vast majority of digital Karaoke files in existence for sale are MP3+G. With the exclusion of some obscure foreign language Karaoke, you will never find a Karaoke song you want available in the other formats and NOT available in MP3+G.

If you are on the fence about what to buy...get the MP3+G if using a computer.
Author:  Lonman [ Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Various Formats
Actually the mp3g while is the standard now, most of the manus are starting to re-release all of their library in HD video formats. Almost all of the UK manus are doing so anyway. ALot of karaoke software now have the ability to play the video formats as well. Only downfall to video formats, is if you have lyric sync issues, you cannot use the sync adjustment that most of the karaoke software offer that do work on the mp3g.
Author:  SinCitySteve [ Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Various Formats
I get what the formats are and what they mean. I just wondered what the pro's and con's were of each.

Thanks!
Author:  Lonman [ Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Various Formats
SinCitySteve wrote:
I get what the formats are and what they mean. I just wondered what the pro's and con's were of each.

Thanks!

It was already answered in this thread. Pros of video formats will have higher quality swipes for HD tv's and better sound quality as a rule over the jagged graphics and slightly lesser sound quality of mp3g. Put the same files side by side, you can hear a difference and SEE the difference.
Cons of video is you cannot adjust off lyrics sync like you can with mp3g.
Author:  KaraokeIan [ Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Various Formats
SinCitySteve wrote:
I get what the formats are and what they mean. I just wondered what the pro's and con's were of each.

Thanks!


Audio quality is near perfect in just about all formats since the MP3 was invented. Even though some will say that videos have prettier graphics, you really need to keep in mind the size of the files. An average MP3+G takes up from 3 to 6 megabytes, but an average karaoke video can take up anywhere from 10 to 20 megabytes or more. When karaoke collections can be in the tens of thousands of songs, it really is something you need to consider. Do you want to buy a 1 terabyte drive or a 3 terabyte drive? Do you want to spend 3 times as long waiting for it to backup when needed? Good singers want the best audio background music available, and frankly could care less if it's displayed in a sharper font or has a pretty picture behind it. Let's just say I've never in my entire karaoke career heard anyone complain about how the lyrics are displayed on the screen. They might complain about the screen's size or location in the venue, but as long as the words are legible and the audio quality is good, that's all that really matters.

A lot of video types require installing codecs and setting them up, but virtually every karaoke app supports MP3+G right out of the box. Also, an MP3+G file can be converted back to play on a karaoke CD, but a video can't, so once you go video, there's no turning back. You can convert an MP3+G to a video as well, but again you can't do the reverse and convert a video back to an MP3+G.

With all that in mind, it would make sense to stick with MP3+G files until they don't make them anymore, and considering all their advantages, I don't think that will be anytime soon.
Author:  KaraokeIan [ Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Various Formats
Lonman wrote:

...and slightly lesser sound quality of mp3g. Put the same files side by side, you can hear a difference and SEE the difference.


Not true. In fact, I'm looking at a Zoom karaoke video (from Select-a-track) that has a 269Kbps bit rate (how audio quality is measured in the digital world), and yet I have a Sound Choice MP3+G version of the song that has a 320Kbps bitrate. In fact, the entire Sound Choice Diamond series was recorded at 320Kbps. It all depends who ripped the tracks. Anyone can rip a karaoke CD at 320Kbps. You can actually go higher, but it's pretty much understood in the audio community that anything higher is usually imperceptible to the human ear.

Audio quality can vary in both MP3+G and videos and the highest rate can be applied to either, which makes no format have any better quality than another. How it was recorded or ripped is another story.

We did some tests back in the old days when we first started ripping karaoke CDs. Most people were ripping at 128Kbps. However we tried all the different bitrates and found that anything over 192Kbps couldn't be detected by the human ear on even a good sound system. Hence, we ripped everything at 192. Although I applaud Sound Choice's decision to go with 320Kbps on their diamond series, frankly it's a bit overkill in my opinion.
Author:  Lonman [ Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Various Formats
KaraokeIan wrote:
An average MP3+G takes up from 3 to 6 megabytes, but an average karaoke video can take up anywhere from 10 to 20 megabytes or more. When karaoke collections can be in the tens of thousands of songs, it really is something you need to consider. Do you want to buy a 1 terabyte drive or a 3 terabyte drive? Do you want to spend 3 times as long waiting for it to backup when needed?

Oh please! File size was an issue when hard drives were small and expensive. A 2 even 3 TB drive these days run $100 if you find a deal, however a 1 TB will probably be more than you'd ever need - even with 10's of thousands of songs ripped in best format quality. I have approx 18,000 songs on my 1TB drive that take up around 420 GB. That is including my several thousand 'big' video files too. Backing up takes maybe 3 hours to do the entire drive, an overnight set and go to bed. Done in the morning. NOT an issue.

Quote:
Good singers want the best audio background music available, and frankly could care less if it's displayed in a sharper font or has a pretty picture behind it. Let's just say I've never in my entire karaoke career heard anyone complain about how the lyrics are displayed on the screen. They might complain about the screen's size or location in the venue, but as long as the words are legible and the audio quality is good, that's all that really matters.
May be true, however video swipes are much cleaner and smoother in comparison.
Author:  Lonman [ Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Various Formats
KaraokeIan wrote:
Lonman wrote:

...and slightly lesser sound quality of mp3g. Put the same files side by side, you can hear a difference and SEE the difference.


Not true. In fact, I'm looking at a Zoom karaoke video (from Select-a-track) that has a 269Kbps bit rate (how audio quality is measured in the digital world), and yet I have a Sound Choice MP3+G version of the song that has a 320Kbps bitrate. In fact, the entire Sound Choice Diamond series was recorded at 320Kbps. It all depends who ripped the tracks. Anyone can rip a karaoke CD at 320Kbps. You can actually go higher, but it's pretty much understood in the audio community that anything higher is usually imperceptible to the human ear.
I have several from SBI & Karaoke Version (you can downlowd in all formats from KV to compare) that I had mp3g and got the video version for test purposes and the sound was much crisper and deeper bass response.

Quote:
We did some tests back in the old days when we first started ripping karaoke CDs. Most people were ripping at 128Kbps. However we tried all the different bitrates and found that anything over 192Kbps couldn't be detected by the human ear on even a good sound system. Hence, we ripped everything at 192. Although I applaud Sound Choice's decision to go with 320Kbps on their diamond series, frankly it's a bit overkill in my opinion.

And again, with hard drive space being as cheap as it is these days, there is absolutely no reason to rip at anything less than the best IMO - there are people that claim they can tell if something is ripped in mp3g at any bit rate (although I agree and call BS on that).
Author:  Big Easy [ Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Various Formats
I rip Cdg's at 160 usually and can't tell the difference between that and of higher bit-rate.

SCDG's can only be ripped at 128 close enough for karaoke.

With all the crowd noise who can tell? In a coffee shop maybe yes but I doubt it.
Author:  JoeChartreuse [ Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Various Formats
Bazza wrote:
SinCitySteve wrote:
I've just been perusing karaoke music vendors and was wondering what is the difference between the different formats


99% of pros use:

CD+G <-- The CD karaoke format used in old school Karaoke CD players.
MP3+G <-- The computer equivalent of the above for use in PC Karaoke hosting software. <Now the industry standard>


SinCitySteve wrote:
Is there a difference in quality?


Absolutely. CD's are "CD quality" as they are a linear device. MP3's can be just as good, or horrible depending on the bit rate. Stick with 256kbps or better and you will be just fine in a normal party environment.
.


( Hand over heart...) IT'S THE BIG ONE ETHEL! :lol:
Author:  Lonman [ Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Various Formats
With a pro quality sound card and a high bit rate mp3g, I will still pay money to anyone that can tell the difference in a side by side comparison! Those that CAN hear the difference obviously do not use quality sound cards! A bad (or stock headphone jack) sound card - YES you can tell the difference!
Author:  KaraokeIan [ Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Various Formats
Big Easy wrote:
SCDG's can only be ripped at 128


Wrong again. Where do you people get your information?

ANY CD or DVD can be ripped at any rate (below the rate of 1411.2Kbps which is what the rate of CD audio is in it's uncompressed format). Now you may have a piece of software that won't let you do it, but that only means you need better software.
Author:  Cueball [ Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Various Formats
JoeChartreuse wrote:
( Hand over heart...) IT'S THE BIG ONE ETHEL! :lol:

If you're quoting "S&S," then that's "Elizabeth." :angel:
Author:  Bazza [ Sat Aug 31, 2013 10:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Various Formats
KaraokeIan wrote:
Big Easy wrote:
SCDG's can only be ripped at 128


Wrong again. Where do you people get your information?

ANY CD or DVD can be ripped at any rate (below the rate of 1411.2Kbps which is what the rate of CD audio is in it's uncompressed format). Now you may have a piece of software that won't let you do it, but that only means you need better software.


Actually you are both mistaken. An SCDG (Super CD+G) is neither a CD nor a conventional DVD. It's not even an audio disc, technically it's a unique variant of a DVD data disc.

Bottom line: They are quite different animals. You are at the mercy of the bit rate that the manufacture chose...you cant choose a different bit rate when extracting the songs to a hard drive. In order to cram hundreds of songs onto one disc, most are 128kbps. A few manus made SCDG's at 256kbps. They are a quick, cheap way to get lots of music, but the quality is wanting.
Author:  Bazza [ Sat Aug 31, 2013 10:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Various Formats
Bazza wrote:
JoeChartreuse wrote:
Absolutely. CD's are "CD quality" as they are a linear device. MP3's can be just as good, or horrible depending on the bit rate. Stick with 256kbps or better and you will be just fine in a normal party environment.
.


( Hand over heart...) IT'S THE BIG ONE ETHEL! :lol:


:lol: Nothing that hasn't been said before Joe. As stated many time, stick with 256kbps or better and nobody will be able to hear the difference in a karaoke bar.
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