Karaoke Forums

Please allow me to introduce myself. I've been running bandeoke events for the last few years in various guises.

From time to time (usually when there has been a personnel change) I like to take a step back and review what I'm doing and how I could improve it. This time I have decided that some input from people on music forums would be very welcome.

I have been on a couple of live gigging musician sites, but found that there is a very snobbish attitude prevailing when it comes to Karaoke and Bandeoke. (Karaoke is the devil that will devour the world, and Bandeoke is even worse because it encourages drunk members of the audience up on stage to destroy your gig). Now I have a very different take on all of this, I think that spreading the singing around creates a communal atmosphere and if managed well can lead to much more enjoyable evenings than just listening to a covers band trotting out their usual set.

So, here I am, on what looks like the biggest and best Karaoke Forum. I'd like to know if you've ever done Bandeoke? If not, would you like to? What are the things you like or dislike about it. How do you think it could be improved (bigger/broader songlists?)

Cheers

Martin

I've never been to Bandeoke but would love to try it if there was one close by and they had a good way for the lyrics to be shown on a TV instead of holding a piece of paper.

Hi BruceFan4Life

The way of displaying the lyrics is something that I've spent a long time considering.

We have a number of books that have the lyrics laid out in what I think is a nice format (Arial 18 Bold). The book is on a music stand so there's no need to hold pieces of paper in your hand.

The problem with putting the lyrics on a screen is that something or someone needs to scroll it at the appropriate time. If it's put on an automatic scroll the band is now forced to play in time with it (to a certain extent) and this starts to work against the organic nature of a band playing live. It also brings in technology (possibly in the hands of somebody drunk or nervous) which is kind of asking for trouble in my eyes.

I have seen live band karaoke, but I have never participated. I only know of a couple places in the northwest that do live band karaoke and they are far enough from where I live that I don't prioritize it. I would love to do it just once so I can say I sang with a real band.

-Chris

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-Chris

My question is how would all that break down cost wise? You would have to pay the band of course, would you need a host as well? If you need a host then you would have to pay him as well? I don't know if many venues would want to pay both at the same time. Unless one of the band members also doubled as the host. I know a lady that plays the drums and has back up music to accompany her, she might be right cost wise if she could team up with a host. Just a thought.

I have done three different bandeoke experiences. One in Portland that Swingcat turned me on to, Karaoke from Hell. This was very good. Another in Satellite Beach Florida, which was also very good. Then one in Miami, which was terrible.

* Karaoke from Hell had an extensive song list. They had practiced *most* of the songs pretty well. (My wife found they had not much of a clue how to do Johnny Angel.) They had personality and a good following. They play at least two nights a week, and apparently specialize in this. They have a songbook done nicely, with nearly 400 songs listed. They essentially require you to tip to sing, or at least to receive a lyrics sheet. If you give them $5.00 they perk right up and you get some priority.

* The band in Satellite Beach, at a great place called "Lou's Blues", was very good because they were very good musicians. You've heard, "Hum a few bars, and we'll pick it up", that describes them. My wife asked about some songs, and they improvised "The Tide Is High" pretty well right away. They had about 200 songs, and most they did pretty well. Highly recommended.

* The one in Miami was terrible, they were essentially impostors. They said to me "We'll play any song, just tell us what it is." I put in a Toby Keith, and they put on a Sound Choice version from a hard drive and played the bass and drummed along with it. Simply awful.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

What you call Bandeoke sounds a lot like open mic nights.

Many acts, from local all the way up to Bruce Springsteen, have stage prompters that a sound guy scrolls. They have versions that can be foot activated on stage by the singer.

I've sat in with several bands both in rehearsals and on stage but have never done anything that wasn't rehearsed. I know of one band that did some open mic shows while looking for a lead singer. It was a way to gig and audition singers at the same time. They had two players that sang so they didn't need to rely on the open mic and they were looking to improve the vocals for the group. My fear with a bandeoke would be not having enough people willing to jump up on stage, or worse, having one or two not so good singers up there over and over. Karaoke can get away with not so good singers, I can't see a band getting away with it too much. The culture is just different with that regard.

I think it's funny that band sites are snobbish toward karaoke. I can promise you that that the same people knocking it are hitting karaoke bars on some weekend nights that they do not have gigs.

I'll be honest with you, making money from it can be a problem, there are a lot of mouths to feed.

Firstly let me mention that I'm in London, so there are going to be both cultural and musical genre differences with you guys stateside. We had been doing it with myself (keyboards) a drummer and a guitarist. My girlfriend did the (what I would call) floor managing. She would go handle the lyric books and getting the singers up, but she did no MC'ing, that was left to us (the band).

We've found that it's hard to get any pubs or bars to pay more than £150 a gig, so we generally make £50 each (with my girlfriend doing it for free as a favour to us). The intention is always to use these gigs to hopefully attract private bookings (where we can charge a fair bit more). This does happen, so it seems the more public gigs you do, the more exposure you get and the more private bookings come in.

Both my girlfriend and the guitarist are now moving on for various reasons and I am left with the problem of how to fill two pairs of shoes with £50 a gig. My current thinking is to get somebody who is used to organising the events and can sing. They can combine the admin, the MC'ing (including helping the singer) and be a singer in their own right (to start the show or if there's nobody waiting to sing). Correct me if I'm wrong but I'd say that some KJ's would be perfect for this. What do you reckon?

Cheers
Martin

It depends on your definition of Open Mic Night.
Mine is that when it's your turn, the stage is yours. You can do pretty much anything you want (including comedy and poetry). You can replace the entire band with your own people if you like.

Bandeoke is not like that, the band is never replaced, only songs that are known by the band (or key elements of the band) are performed. This means that in order for it to be successful the band need a pretty large and varied songlist.

Currently we have about 450 songs going across most genres and decades. I have identified another 2000 songs that I hope to add to this list in time.

With regards to poor singers, well that's the name of the game. I have found that by keeping the standard "mixed", people who don't feel too confident to get up and sing are less intimidated and are prepared to have a go. When we find a poor singer we do our utmost to help them through the song. This can be by doubling up on the lead vocal (never drowning them out I might add), giving them cues to come in and also when to stop for instrumental parts. We will change the key for them (if the song has only just started, we'll stop it and restart in a better key. If it's been going for a while we can even change key mid song to "go and find the singer").

A very pleasant side effect of a poor singer is that quite often many other people apart from the band will join in the singing from their seats, this can produce a very supportive and fun sing-along.

As for the musicians being snobbish, well all I can say is they have a very strange set of rules. They also don't tend to like younger musicians (the guys I'm thinking of tend to be in their 40s/50s/60s) whilst not seeing the irony of the fact that they are mostly playing songs from the 60s and 70s that were orginally written and performed by people incredibly young at the time.

I believe that music is for everyone to enjoy and not an exclusive, ego driven art form.

Yes, I know of that sort of open mic night as well. The two bands I've been around did it similar to you. They also would do the hum a few bars and we'll join in as we can thing as well.

So you guys can help with vocals, that does help.

Have you thought of a cover charge? I have a few bands that I know of that will do a show for a base of $150 (us) then collect a cover as the rest. The more fans they have show, the more they get so it's really up to them on how much they make a night.

There was also the idea of a "tip to sing" I like that idea as well as a way to make up the difference.

Yes, many KJs could easily "host" this for you...

I've thought about this. Tell me, I assume you're in the states. Is that kind of concept commonplace? In the UK I think we'd have a problem with that one. Also, what happens when a few people pay and sing, followed by.......nothing. You can't throw it open for free as that's unfair on the people who've already paid. So now we've got to turn into a reguler band for the rest of the gig or until somebody else pays (could be a long wait in some of the places I go to )


That is good to hear. I had a feeling I was on the right track with that one.

Not just "host" mind, be part of the band whenever possible (harmonies etc.)

Yes, I am in the states. I can't speak for everyone but I always refused tips for bar shows. Tips for bar karaoke almost always has a "move me up" price with it.

But that is a one man karaoke show. A multi player band would be viewed differently I would think. I know I would. You could even put something in the front of your book explaining how it works and why. You could work it so others could tip to hear certain people.

We have what you might call Bandeoke up here. One of my bars does it on Thursdays. It's actually "Open Mic Night", but anyone can sing with the band. They only do Classic Country and some rock (southern, Skynyrd, etc), so there is limitations. But, they do very well and I really like going there. Before my son was born 10 months ago, I started going there every Thursday on my way home from setting up one of our shows.

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I'm not a cheerleader, but I paid for my pom poms with my own money!

First, a link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_band_karaoke

I've seen live band Karaoke at: "The House of Blues" in Las Vegas.. so it's not just smaller clubs.

Before I would sing, I'd need to be sure I had the song memorized..

You just need to see how well rockaoke is doing! National radio and tv - we just can't get enough of them!

Well, it seems like Google can direct your search.

I've found lots of live band Karaoke here in L.A.

Perhaps your computer has Google too..

At a club in Durham, NC, called Motorco, they do live band karaoke several times a month. They usually get a large group of karaoke singers in the lineup. Sometimes 25 to 30 in the rotation. It seem pretty popular, but a limited selection of songs for people that sing 50's - 60's, country, or big band stuff. Still, lots of fun.

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My first choice IS Sound Choice.

At a club in Durham, NC, called Motorco, they do live band karaoke several times a month. They usually get a large group of karaoke singers in the lineup. Sometimes 25 to 30 in the rotation. It seem pretty popular, but a limited selection of songs for people that sing 50's - 60's, country, or big band stuff. Still, lots of fun.

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My first choice IS Sound Choice.

We have a band that does live karaoke since 2001. The name of the band is Rockaraoke. They have done national major events, corporation parties, celebrity parties, clubs/bars both instate and out of state. They have a weekly gig in town at a local bar that is usually packed to the point that most only get 1-2 songs in. It's definitely an experience singing, as you are on a real stage with real band lighting - not just a couple of light trees blinking to the beat, real floor monitors, a true band pa that thumps with live sound engineer that will play with the effects as well. Now granted the singers that are usually going up are not the typical 'karaoke stereotype', they are usually pretty good (or at least worth listening to) - although not always. The band will make you feel like a part of the band. There are scrolling lyrics (from what i've been told - never witnessed this myself) displayed from monitors next to the floor monitors, since they play from a syncronized click track, the lyrics are in sync. They have over 500 of the most popular songs - rock, pop, country from 70's to today, maybe more now.
http://www.youtube.com/user/rockaraoke

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There's a group around here that does it, and the one local bar picked them up for a night in March. I'm excited. I think the owner said they charge somewhere between $500 and $700 for the night, so I'm sure they'll offset that with a cover charge, but I'm thinking it'll be something cool to do. I wonder if it'll bring out more singers but, if it doesn't, that'll be ok, too, for those of us that go.

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Co-host of The Greatest Song Ever Sung (Poorly), a karaoke-themed podcast