Karaoke Forums

Ok, I've been singing karaoke and performing (ok, teaching technical classes - but keep 20 people interested in learning about computers for 8 weeks) for quite some time and have been toying with starting a small karaoke business for about 6 months. My decision was made for me when a former co-worker asked me to host the weekly karaoke session at their bar (in a hotel) and were able to come to terms.

I'm working on selecting my initial setup and have made a few selections on equipment but am wanting some recommendations on equipment. Keep in mind that this is a SMALL bar, and most of my gigs will be for less than 100 people with most in the 30-50 people range.

Mics: Sennheiser 835's ($200 for 3) but I'm interested in feedback on the Nady SP-R3's ($100 for 6!?). I'll planning for up to 4 mics.

Player: JVC 303 (1 new, 1 refurb - I've seen more than one player fail). May add a laptop or CAVS-99 style player in the future so I don't have to carry the discs (yes, I know many people don't like the CAVS-99 but not for any specific reason that I've seen).

Cables: Samson (considering Armoured cables)

The mixer/amp/speakers is where I'm still trying to make a decision between these 3 different setups:

1. Peavey Escort 2000 - I have a friend that does KJ work for small groups and I've seen this one in use. Has pre-amp out so it can be hooked up to a house system if need be. He's been doing KJ work for a long time and recently moved from a much larger system to this one.

2. Fender Passport Deluxe PD-250 - Seems to have better reviews than the Peavey, but I haven't seen it in action.

3. Mackie DFX12/SRM450 - This is the setup that was recommended on the soundchoice board but chances are with my building my CD+G selection from the 350 or so tracks to the 2500 (trying to stick with quality discs manufacturers and be 100% legal) or so I'm wanting to start with it will be out of my price range for a month or two.

I don't have a problem buying a smaller system and upgrading in the near future which would give me some flexibility for future gigs. The bar currently has a Peavey XG600 and a single (yes, only one) speaker (not sure of model - but it's Peavey, about 4' tall and has wheels on the back side) that I can use. The largest venue I may do in the near future (2-3 months) would likely be their conference room that only seats 90 people (in conference fashion).

I've already made a few other contacts in regards to doing a few other shows and they either already have thier own 'house' systems that I'd plug into, or are small enough that any of these systems would be acceptable for use. Keep in mind I need to be able to put these systems on a small 3 1/2' x 4' trailer since none of them will fit in my car (I have a Miata).

Keep in mind I'm looking for quality, ease of use, portability, and the ability to work with a crowd of up to 100 people. To be honest, I don't know of any venue in town that I'm likely to play that would be more than 100-150 people where they don't already have a compete house system.

I'm also interested in vendors you'd recommend since I'm in Alaska and shipping costs will be a major issue on most purchases. I've priced Musician's Friend and SamAsh who have nearly identical prices. I'm curious on experiences good and bad with these two or other vendors that are recommended.

You wouldn't be satisfied with the Peavey or Fender system. Too small - IMO, but what I prefer is my own opinion.
The Mackie combo would give you the best sound out of the 3 with room to grow as well & you wouldn't need to purchase anything more down the line.

Musicians Friend is a great online retailer (as are most of the major names). I've never had a problem with them.

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I second Lonmans opinion. I've used those setups before and I was far from thrilled by the sound quality. Plus the one I used (the peavey model) didnt seem very well constucted. Whatever you decide good luck.

The question you have to ask yourself is "Do you WANT to get any bigger". If you assume that in the next 3-5 years you will be doing bigger shows in other venues, then get something that will at least cross over to help you build the system. Otherwise you will be just buying all over again.

I would put together a different system. I have run sound professionally so I personally want a little more control. Adding a 31 band EQ is one way to do that. Vocals usually run at 700-1K, 2k and 5k. If you have a weak singer, you boost those bands and they sound better.

My biggest suggestion is to get more than one case for the system. The Amp should NOT be put in the same case as the players. Heat is one reason why. weight of the system is another good reason.

I would also put the second player in a seperate case. That way you have some versatility with the system. I usually run the show from one player, and you can easily leave the second player in the car so it stays newer and cleaner.

As for mics, I don't put much stock into them for karaoke. They get banged around too much. I would suggest getting a good main mic - maybe even a wireless. But for the other mics - Musicians Friend runs a special - Nady SP5 - 3 for $20. They have a bit of a muffled sound, but work just fine when you have 2-4 singers. That way if one of them gets ruined, you can replace it easily.

Anywho - that is my 2cents worth.

BTW - any effects on the system?

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A good friend will come and bail you out of jail...but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"

I disagree with the mic statement. Good mics to begin with can stand the abuse of everyday karaoke abuse. I have used the same Shure SM58's since 1994 & they've been dropped, swung & flung (singer 86'd), & knocked over & still are working strong - the mesh wind screen has been replaced several times, but other than that....now this may not be the same story with everyone, but the SM58 is virtually bullet proof & still sound good with a reasonable price which is why you see these more in local "band" rigs (not all) over any other mic. Watch MTV as well & you will see more SM58 (or Beta 58's) over anything else as well. Not saying there aren't better sounding mics, but reliabilty definately they have over anything else.

I have in the past used cheap mics ($20-$50) with a company that kept thinking that it's JUST karaoke, so the singers don't need anything quality, well the overall sound suffered - generally making them sound tinny with no fullness to their voice & they frankly didn't last as long as we were replacing them at LEAST once per year if they got dropped too many times.

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I am in compleat agreement with Lonman and what he said about SM58s.
I've heard the PD-250 and I believe it to be a much better choice than the Escort system. It all snaps into one piece. What kind of speakers does the Escort have? Give me a break. The PD-250's speakers were designed by BOSE. Don't count on getting bass out of either system.
I have a Carvin system and a componet system with a Mackie 1202VLZ-Pro mixer.
I'm shure that Lonman knows more about the Mackie system that you mentioned than I, but I couldn't be happier with my mixer.

Check out Carvin. www.carvin
Don't forget speaker stands.

Good Luck!
Kojak

I went with the Fender System. Why? I wanted it for my first show and it was the only thing I could get locally - and for only $6 more than I priced it on the Internet - $114 less than the Internet if I included shipping costs. I could have gone for a slightly larger system with seperate components but even with the Fender PD-250 I was told to turn the volume down more than once (and it was never up more than half way on the mains, and hardly 1/3 on the stereo inputs).

The PD-250 allows for effects loops on each side of the stereo channel or as a single dual out (so I can add in an eq, TD, etc). It support a foot switch and other things the Peavey didn't (which I may never use, but it's nice to have). It has stereo output so I can push it through a seperate power amp later (or use a pair of SRM450's) and use the Fender speakers as monitors. It didn't come with speaker stands but I picked up the Fender speaker stands that are pretty beefy for $120. It did come with 2 mics which are 'decent' but I'll be ordering mics this week. It does limit me to 4 mics, but I dont' forsee a need for more than 4 mics and 2 inputs in the near future. The bar will only seat about 30 people, up to about 75 if I did the entire restaruant as well. I'll add the SM450's later for my mains and then move to a larger mixer later as the need for more mics/inputs arises.

Primarily I'm interested in getting my song list built up at this point with quality selections (Sound Choice primarily) so I can dump some of the garbage I have now (VCD's.... which I'll never buy again, UGGGHHHH!!).

I do appreciated the input from everyone and will add the SRM450's as soon as I can afford to. In the mics I'd probably go with the Shure SM58's but they're pricey (at about $120 each) and I've already had to deal with one drunk a$$ dropping a Shure Wireless that belongs to the bar. I don't want to have to replace mics once a month at that kind of price. I'm tempted by the Sennheiser e835's since they're a metal body and comparable to the SM58's specs at half the cost (3 for $200).

Anyone use the Sennheiser e835's and have a first hand comparison between them and the Shure SM58's? If they'll last at least twice as long as the 835's it would make sense to move to the Shure.

I'm also curious if anyone uses more than one player and how they handle switching the video signal between devices.

Thanks for all the input....

The Sennheisers are good, but the durability isn't there. They'll take a couple drops but not like the 58's. But again soundwise they aren't any better or worse, just different.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

If you wish to use 2 players, and switch the video from one player to the other you'll need an A/B switch and an RF modulator, (also known as an RF rectifier), for each player to convert from a simple video output to coaxel cable.
You may be able to find an A/B switch that handles the RCA video outputs found on most players, but I can't remember seeing one off hand.
partsexpress.com has a couple for $5.90. Go there and search for A/B switch. You don't need a $200+ switch designed for for professional video editing. You can also find them at your local Radio Shack.
These are simple switches, $20 is a ripoff.

Good Luck
Kojak

We use 2 identical Pioneer players, 1 for CD-G's and 1 for filler music. There is no need for switching and the second player can replace the first one if there is a problem.

Also have to agree with the others on the SM58's. If you go with a wireless system use one that operates on the UHF band. Also if you buy more than one wireless mic, make sure they are not on the same frequency.

After many years of use I sent one to Shure for repair. They charge a flat fee of $65.

Another source for equipment is American Musical Supply on the internet. I have purchased quite a bit of equipment from them and have been well satisfied. The local Guitar Center could not beat their prices. NO TAXES!!!(living in California 7.75%) and no shipping charge over $250. It is nice to have UPS ship a large set of EV sub's to your front door. Also, they offer a 3 or 5 month payment plan depending on how much you spend.

Cort
MC Entertainment

That's what I use Kojak... an a/b switch that takes the yellow (video), white and red outputs from my players, and I put the video out from that to my TV. If it didn't have the RCA connection, then I'd have to modulate it to go to a coaxil connection.

I even have a SECOND switch, where I can do the video on one, and the audio on another... that way I can switch the video to another player while the music is still playing. But for purposes of a standard setup, it's no biggie.

I have the whole thing hooked up to a mixer... I fade in the mix music whenever the singer is done... essentially, the audience only hears two things: the mix music and the karaoke music.

Matt

Matt,
Do you remember offhand what you paid for your A/B switch?
I would hate to see karaokemiester pay more than he has to because some salesman told him that he needs an expensive switch that was designed for a high end video system.

Check out my last post on the Shure microphones thread, then add your 2 cents.
I really screwed up when I posted it there.
It should of been posted here, or as a new topic.

How do you spell brain damage?

it was a basic model from radio shack!!

www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog% ... id=15-1217