Karaoke Forums

One of my owners asked me to run a karaoke contest. I've done them for a company I used to work for and later for myself. They never turn out good, despite my/our best efforts. Only one singer is not upset. THE WINNER. Knowing how they ALWAYS end, I went against my better judgment and started the contest. Four bars, four different nights, $500 prize. It lasts 7 weeks total. (5 qualifying weeks, 1 week of In House Finals and The Finals).

So far, week #1 is over. And, so far, I have heard from no less than 10 contestants about the judging. They were ALL told that they would be judged on stage presence, song selection, and crowd reaction - in addition to vocals. (Crowd reaction means "Are people paying attention to the singer - not getting up to go smoke, use the restroom, or get drinks? Are they tapping their feet, dancing, or singing along? It does not mean applause.) The best singers didn't have stage presence. They sat behind the monitor and read the words as they sang. So, the best singers didn't place as high as they should have.

I told them all that later rounds will require us to look hard at things like stage presence, etc because everyone that gets up on stage will be a good singer.

And people think that the $500 should be theirs. I think some have already spent it.

I always knew that contests were counterproductive, but look what I've gotten myself into.

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I'm not a cheerleader, but I paid for my pom poms with my own money!

Here's and idea for you the next time you find yourself being pressured by a club:

I tell the club that the contest does nothing long-lasting for the club. It will bring all the water drinkers who want to "stay sharp" for the competition and sure, it will fill up the bar for the finals and the next day they're all gone looking for the next contest. Plus, I don't like pitting the club's patrons against each other. And you simply piss off your regulars when they are delayed from singing because you're running a contest.

I despise contests. It brings to much additional drama to the bar. And while water sales pick up tremendously, there is no truly fair way to judge one so too many people (regulars) get upset and stop coming after the contest ends.

It's just never a good idea to tell your singers they aren't good enough -- and then go about proving it.

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KNOW THYSELF

Never use crowd response as a judging criteria IMO. It's too easily stackable to help or harm someones score. I've never used it in any serious cash contest.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

There aren't any contests in my area anymore. This is the first real one in about 5 years maybe....

So far, we saw a (guessing) 30% increase in business in two bars, no increase in a third bar, and we kicked off a new show at the other bar with the contest. I'd say that it has helped business overall, but the ticked off/hurt customers are probably going to not come out as much once the contest is over. In the long run, I think it may end up hurting business.

Lon, I agree with you about crowd reaction - but that is why I didn't use the applause as part of it.

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I'm not a cheerleader, but I paid for my pom poms with my own money!

When I was a singer I liked competitions but was amazed at how many people shouted fix or got angry But not to sound like a cocky pompous (@$%&#!) but i entered three and won three so that may have clouded my opinion. I did however win one against a girl who i thought should have won she was a miles better vocalist but sang depressing angst ridden heart breaking ballads in a busy drinking pub , i sang a feel good foot tapper that got them all involved , she stood still in a corner i was moving about and interacting with the audience. I felt really sorry for the girl and my mum and dad said she should have won on her vocal talent ,(they are my harshest critics in the world believe me) my parents were looking at people condescendingly.. to shut up talking when she sang and to show more respect. A few years later i met her she is a professional singer now and graduated from performing arts course she was on , she comes to karaoke shows I host occasionally. But at the time I did feel guilty.

As a host i decided that if i were to hold competitions i would not just do them but serious planning and rules would be needed and a fair way of scoring would need to be devised so i started chatting about it on UK forums to other hosts.

I called in favours , I am a member of various karaoke associations and national DJ associations. I asked several KJs from way outside my locality about this conundrum and we decided we would have a "pot" of hosts that would be willing to be judges depending on if they were working of not on said night , in return you would also have to put your name in this pot. For the competition we have three judges , with judges name badges so everyone knows who they are and to make it like x factor \ idol. I printed up score sheets with the criteria but the scoring was a weighted point system.

for technical ability on vocals you could score up to 20
for performance only up to 5
for conveying emotion and connecting with the audience up to 5
and for style and presentation 5

The contestants were all told about the scoring system and all score sheets were available for inspection

As the host it was really good that none of the singers knew the judges. and they tended to blame them who would not see them again rather than the venue or host , when i was asked to return the favour and judge a comp 75 miles away i did and yes i got hassle , yes i got angry mums and dads and partners saying such and such was robbed and it was fixed when it wasn't but i was never going to see them again and i stood by my judging. The host didn't get it in the neck and neither did the venue as much as when its a local person or the host was judging.

having said all that I too still hate competitions as a host they are lots of work , hassle and give very little in return , I have not done a comp for over three years but maybe my experiences may help any host thinking of doing a competition

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"Your Never Fully dressed without a smile."

To Visit my website Rob Star Entertainments Click the link in my profile

"Strangers are just friend we haven't met yet"

I just don't think you can avoid all the hurt feelings. I think that I am going to staple a note to the entry forms that say something like:

Please note:

This karaoke contest is 100% honest and will abide by the official rules. This means that contestants should review the official rules - especially the judging criteria.

This is my fourth major contest and I have run several smaller ones as well. They almost always end with hurt feelings and claims that the contest was unfair. Please be prepared for the reality of not winning the $500. Only one person reading this form out of hundreds will win.

When you don't win, don't complain or be a poor sport. You were judged fairly according to the official rules and judging criteria.

Prizes come from the pockets of bar owners and your karaoke host. This is our money and we will pay it to the person who wins according to the judging criteria we have set forth. If you don't win it, you didn't earn it, so you are not entitled to it.

Future contests may be held if this one goes smoothly. And yes, one person can ruin it.

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I'm not a cheerleader, but I paid for my pom poms with my own money!

I like it ! It's honest and to the point.

on a side note , you are a nice person , you care , you are working yourself up about letting them down gently , at the thought of their failure or delusion. This in my book makes you a good person.

To be plain that's their hang up and their own issues. I am not saying be unfeeling but being detached and not getting swept along with the drama is a difficult balancing act , you obviously care very much about your shows , your singers , your job and your venue and that's why it burns when you get hassle.

As a singer i would sooner go to shows hosted by a host who obviously cares than the many who don't about anything but themselves or that its a job that can pull women etc (many of those types come and go in my area) .

The reason you have a customer base is you obviously care , just because you get a few moans and see people banking on winning don't let that get in the way of knowing they will be back despite grievances because your a good host who cares.

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"Your Never Fully dressed without a smile."

To Visit my website Rob Star Entertainments Click the link in my profile

"Strangers are just friend we haven't met yet"

As many of you know, Karaoke Scene hosts an annual contest, (Actually, three. Creme de la Creme, Creme de la Kids, and Creme de la King "Elvis" )

Yes, kids sing too.. http://karaokefest.com/

Votes are also for KJs, and Venue..

It's a pretty big deal..

The format is standard, events held at local pubs, choosing the semi-finalists, and then the big finale..

And the awards..

Come by if you get a chance..

But if part of the crowd reaction is your judging, then it is just as bad as judging by applause. If a group wants someone to win, they can just look interested, tap their toes, sing along. They don't like a particular person, they walk out for a smoke, start texting, look disinterested whether someone is good or not. CROWDS are not fair in most constests. I've ran contests for 20 years - large scale high $$$$ to weekly dumb prizes.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I'd go with separate judges for each category. For example, one only judges everyone's stage presence, one does song difficulty, one does performance, etc. Scale of 1-5. That way no one can rig it. And with the tally be at the end of the contest no one can look at a judge wondering who picked a low score.

Whenever I was forced to do contests, I refused to be ANY part of the judging process. That way, no one could EVER blame me that it was rigged. Ever.

And I would announce the fact that I was not a judge, although all I did was announce the "judge's decision." And I would wear a "NO Whining" pin.

I never do contests. I have posted the following before, elswhere:


Caveat: I have seen at least four venues completely lose/close out karaoke due to contests. I tell owners up front that I will NEVER do one. Here's my reasoning, all from past experience:

1) 99% of new customers will return to their regular venue after the contest, unless you are EXCEPTIONAL, and if you are, you probably still won't have the opportunity to showcase during the contest.


2) Newbies walking into the bar will be too nervous to try singing around all that talent, and these ARE possible new regulars. They will go elsewhere, and become regulars THERE.


3) Regulars not entered in the contest will get upset about the lack of air time for them, forcing them to look for a different venue.


4) Judging: No one will be convinced it's fair. Applause? Singers will load the place with their friends if they can. Impartial judges? If they're anywhere near local they will know at least some of the singers, and the singers will know that, and never believe they are impartial.


5) You get to deal with all of the egos and whining for no extra pay. Then, the sore losers, who may have been regulars at your shows at OTHER venues, disappear both from the contest venues and your others. It has been my experience that most bars AND HOSTS lose much more in the long run than they gain in the short run with contests....AND the host ALWAYS gets most of the blame/bad feelings..

I have printed out a flyer for owners noting the above. If they still insist on a contest, I let them know that I must protect my business and reputation and they will have to find another host.

The best ones around here feel as I do and won't do it. The crappy ones might, with predictable results.

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

Joe,

I hate contests, but you are pointing out everything negative and don't make any mention of the positive aspects.

First, the contest will expose more people to your karaoke show. I like to think I run a good show, so I believe the more people I expose to my brand of karaoke, the better.

Business will pick up during the contest. And, contestants are more likely to bring friends to see them compete.

If I have 15-20 contestants per night, this is simply one round of karaoke. Once the contest is done, those singers who did not compete get priority to sing. Once I get those non-contestants through, I keep the same contest rotation with the newbies at the bottom.

I tell my singers that this is a reward for their patronage. Even with the little prizes I hand out during qualifying rounds, it is more than they get down the road!

Finally, the In House Finals are a guaranteed good night. 20 singers will be back, and they become increasingly more likely to bring friends & family. The Finals will be even better.

Are there going to be hurt feelings? We all know that WILL happen. But, I am keeping on this education kick and letting my singers know that only one person can win and chances are really good that it won't be them, so they should be prepared to be gracious in defeat.

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I'm not a cheerleader, but I paid for my pom poms with my own money!

those are some positives Troy, and what the owners are looking at. what was being pointed out though is that those positives are temporary, and after the contest is over, attendance drops way below pre-contest levels and take a lot of time and effort to rebuild again. the loss to the venue hosting the contest, and your shows is much more dramatic than than the temporary increase in business for a few weeks.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

The only good use I've seen for karaoke contests is to open a bar. It gets people in the front door. Other than that I think they're pure poison.

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Okay, who took my pants?

Would it be good for starting karaoke at a bar/venue that hasn't been doing karaoke?

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My statements, opinions and conclusions are based on my own personal experiences, observations, research and/or just my own $.02. I'm not a "cheerleader", but that doesn't make me a Pirate.

Well I disagree that all contests will drop below pre-contest levels. Depends on how the contest is ran to begin with. Yes you typically will see an increase during/throughout the contests & a major jump for the finals, but majority of the time the regs understand that it is not a regular karaoke night, that there is an event in progress. Once the finals are over the contestants will normally leave seeking out the next contest in the area, although depending on how they like things run some usually do become new regulars, maybe not every nighters but at least once a week or so.
But it is human nature to want to compete - you name something, there is competition for it somewhere somehow. Kj's may hate it but people DO want them and almost NEED them whether it be karaoke singing or a quilting contest - people WANT to compete. People that get bitter about losing probably shouldn't have entered to begin with.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Except for being able to show what a good show you run (You won't be able to, because it's not a regular show. You'll only show how you run a contest), all of your good points are in arguably valid. I have absolutely no disagreement.

The problem is that all of them are short term. The long term loss can be staggering. As for the returning 20 singers: As I previously stated, if you are exceptional- MAYBE. Most return to there home bars, where they are already "stars".

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"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"

" Disc based and loving it..."

The latest note from one of my singers:

Ya know honestly though if you would have put it in that it was the "Muskegon" version of American Idol I wouldn't have been interested. You will find the majority of the time that people who like to do Karaoke many times do not want to be performers, they don't want to be a Garth Brooks, or Dierks Bentley lookalike, or shake their groove thing like Rihanna. For the most part they enjoy getting up in front of a bunch of people and singing. Some of them are very good, some of them not so good but it doesn't matter because they have a common tie that binds them, no one is above another. Now if you are going to have a Karaoke contest, have just that and award those that do a great job of singing, interpreting and conveying the meaning of the music to those who are around them listening. I won't be pursuing this any further by virtue of what you have explained to me thus far, I have no desire to parade myself around the stage trying to convince someone I am anyone other than "Who I am". I enjoy singing, I enjoy sharing my passion with the crowd in front of me, I have made people cry singing a song and looking at them, I have made them happy by virtue of sharing a memory of a time gone by
that a verse if a well sung tune brought them to remember. I have enjoyed being around you and sharing with all of those that have been at the Alibi the times we have come in, but I am sincerely disappointed at the same time. I wish you luck with all of your endeavours, but the way things are setup the best performer will most likely win your "competition", not the best singer, last time I checked that is what Karaoke is all about.

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I'm not a cheerleader, but I paid for my pom poms with my own money!