Karaoke Forums

Hi all....recently there have been many questions regarding compressor setups so I thought I'd start a thread with pics, sketches or whatever showing your typical setup for your model compressor.
In order to make comparisons/measurement/setups easier I propose a few simple starting points for mixer/mic/insert and gain settings.

These are :-

1. All info to be based on using the channel insert only on your mixer (please specify your mixer and compressor models)

2. Mixer channel gain/trim pot set for 0dB on your compressors input meter under typical singing conditions.

3.Compressor output makeup gain set for unity signal throughput (ie. same signal level out with compressor active or bypassed).

Any other suggestions welcome.

I'll start by posting a couple of useful setups for the dbx1046 and Behringer MDX4600 quad compressors.

Thanks

GH

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Gadget's Karaoke : Boldly singing what no one has dared sing before.

Mixer :- Allen & Heath Zed-14
Compressor :- dbx1046

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Gadget's Karaoke : Boldly singing what no one has dared sing before.

Mixer :- Allen & Heath Zed-14
Compressor :- Behringer MDX4600

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Gadget's Karaoke : Boldly singing what no one has dared sing before.

I hate to say this but I'm not sure how helpful this thread really is. Dynamic processing in general and specifically compression, needs to be set specific to the input signal received. In other words, each singer has their own requirements for how the compression should be applied. Ultimately, it takes an understanding of what compression is and how it works plus a good ear in order to get this right. I'll post some general guidelines as far as the parameters I have set on my compressors and hopefully that will help.

I'll focus on only four parameters, I think most of us use compressors that have automatic or interactive modes where you don't have to set things like attack and release times.

Threshold: Typically this is somewhere between -20db and -10db for most singers. Louder singers you'll generally set a lower threshold (closer to -20 than -10) and then use a lower ratio to keep the compression smooth and avoid "pumping".

Ratio: Typically between 2.5:1 and 6:1. As mentioned before, use a lower ratio for louder singers and a higher ratio for quiet singers that need a lower threshold.

Output gain: Should always be 0 db (unity). If you set your input signal so it peaks around 0 then there's no reason for any gain on the output side. Adding boost here only serves to introduce noise and possibly distortion. Use the trim (input attenuation, gain control, whatever you want to call it) on your console to get this right. This should be reset for each singer as well.

Peak Limiter: Usually stays static at around +3-5 db. Depends a little on your console and where it's clipper kicks in but 3-5 db should be safe for most if not all consoles.

The other thing I'll offer here that should help is this. When a singer is singing at normal volume. You should see little to no compression being applied (watch the meeters). When they really lay into it then you should see the compression come up and start locking down the channel. The peak limiter should almost never get hit and should be very short and transient when it does.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

Its sort of a catch22. I as a host do not have the time to tweak for every singer. Good hosts are not soundmen and you cant expect them to be. During a serious recording session I will tweak every knob in the photo. During a live show they pretty much stay where they are except for extreme circumstances.

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I love you guys so much! i've had my compressor for a while and still don't understand how to get the most out of it. By having a good guideline of where to start, now i can make subtle adjustments to obtain the best sound. . . before i was just turning dials randomly and praying to correct problems. This thread is giving me not only a clearer understanding but also pictures. Thank you! thank you! thank you!

Just to add for an average singer I like to have the first red light blinking occasionally. Some singers you never will and they are the ones you have feedback problems with.

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Once again, letitrip said it right, and I can do nothing but agree with him. If you are not familiar with the use of a compressor, you should set it up in your garage and play with it until you are comfortable. Do this with every new tool you buy. Why have it if you do not know how to use it?

I will also agree that the primary job of a KJ is not to be a sound man. While attention to the sound is an important part of the job, I know many successful KJs who have NO CLUE about sound. But they do talk to the customers, look up songs, promote the other entertainment activities at the venue, etc. etc. Being a good host is really important and so is having the music people want. You can't focus on the mixer all night and still do all those other things effectively. I make sure I completely ignore a few singers each night so I have time to flirt with whatever 21-year-old girls come up asking to hear Cupid Shuffle or whatever.

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Jeff Wheeler, moonlight DJ/KJ

Again it depends upon the crowd and time of night Sometimes late at night you have a bar full of screaming drunks. All they want is loud music and a lot of it. There is nobody sitting there evaluating the sound.

Now when I have a few good singers and the crowd is enjoying them I will tweak the sound a bit. Of course this is at a lower volume.

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I think sometime you just a hit a brick wall though and this is why forums like this are great. . . I've set it up and played with it for hours, searched forums for advice, re-read the manual countless times and was getting nowhere near it's potential. It was certainly working, and was having a positive benifit at my shows, but my gut feeling was saying something was wrong, looking at the above examples I can see I was right.

I'd never seen a compressor before I brought one, none of the karaoke shows in my area use one, so it was difficult for me to judge what it should sound like and when it should kick in. At least with a mixing desk, however complicated it is, most people know or quickly find out the basic settings (eg 12o clock) and then you are able to adjust from that point on.

It was like someone had given me a banana told me it was food. I felt like i was eating it with skin on. Still edible, still tastes nice, still gives me my vitamins but not ideal. This thread is like someone has taught me how to peal it.

You eat the peels????

Let me be the first to tell you, don't eat the peels!

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KingBing Entertainment C'mon Up! I have a song for you!!! [font=MS Sans Serif][/font]

Well Marble, I'm glad the thread is helpful. Compression is by far one of the most misunderstood and misapplied concepts in pro-audio. As with so many things there are a number of theories that all work but there's also a lot of mis-information out there. We do have a great group of folks on this board that are happy to help so don't be afraid to ask anytime you've got a question.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

I'm pleased that the thread is going to help someone.

Karyoker which dbx unit is this ?

Marble what compressor do you have ?

I never mess with the compressor settings once set except if I'm messing around at home otherwise it comes out the same every gig.

I too have better things to do with my time....mostly mixing effects, music and singer levels on the faders

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Gadget's Karaoke : Boldly singing what no one has dared sing before.

Its a DBX266XL. I usually run the threshold about -10, the ratio about 3 and overeasy on.

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Join The Karaokle Singers Social Network. Upload Your Music!!

I don't find compression hard to apply at all. I just turn the knob on my Yamaha mixer.....

Seriously, though, isn't everyone making it harder than it is? Sure you want unity on the output. But a threshold of -10db, auto attack/release, and 2.5:1 compression is going to work well for karaoke. You can't really fine-tune much beyond that when you are running live, can you?

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.

Your absolutely right Mickey for those that know where to set the knobs.

That's all this thread was meant to be...a starting point for those new to compression like Marble who want an easy place to start from.

A picture speaks a thousand words

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Gadget's Karaoke : Boldly singing what no one has dared sing before.

im still trying to get to grips with the the dbx 266xl so like you say a picture is as good as a million words ,even if it is only a starting point ,at least you know your not far out.
By the way gunghouk a great thread but i think best way to do this as you said at the beginig nice pics of setting ,that way no mistakes to typing or anything.
I have been very greatful to the advice i have recieved on thes forum but sometimes some can be a bit to technical for the people are just getting into it all like myself,but hey any advice is better than none and im greatful either way.

Whatever works for you, go for it. However, I'm confused where the impression got started that you need to constantly fuss with the compressor to get it right. One adjustment at the start of the song for each singer. Do you guys not adjust your mic's trim with each singer to account for variances in each singer's volume?

I spend about 10-20 seconds getting the gain, EQ and compressor setup when a new singer comes up and starts singing. If it's someone who's already sang that evening, it takes less time because I already know what I need. From there I'm either out in the main listening area checking my mix, conversing with patrons or working the delay and verb if I have specific cues for the song their singing.

Are we making it harder than it should be? No. Compression is a great thing but when mis-applied can really ruin the vocals. The more automatic your compressor is (the Yamaha consoles being the epitome of ease) the less you have to worry about. But given the wide range of vocal dynamics from singer to singer, using the same compression settings from one to the next could have negative results.

I wouldn't expect anyone here to be a sound engineer, however, does that mean you shouldn't strive to learn how to use your expensive equipment properly? More power to you if you want to just set and it forget it, that's your prerogative. For those that have the desire to understand how to get it right, I'll be here to offer any assistance that I can.

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DJ Tony
Let It Rip Karaoke

More pictures less words please

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Gadget's Karaoke : Boldly singing what no one has dared sing before.

I'll have to respectfully disagree. While putting 4:1 compression on the wrong singer might have negative consequences, the settings I mention should never really affect things greatly in a negative way. In fact, you should not be able to even notice them explicitly in a given slice of 10-20 seconds at the beginning of a song.

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[color=#ffff55]Mickey J.[/color]
Alas for those who never sing, but die with all their music in them.
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr.