Karaoke Forums

Can anyone reccommend a good book for mixing. I have a couple but I don't think they go over the basics enough for me. I am quite new to mixing vocals in for karaoke and although I did not skimp on the quality of my set up, my running it leaves a lot to be desired.

Some of the main problems I have are everyone sounding too loud to too high for the background song.

Also I have a Lexicon effects unit and would like to get some basic reverb / echo out of it but all of the settings seem like they are too much of one of the other. I've tried 33 like I heard a couple of people on here reccommend and the echo is too much for most peoples liking.

Any little tid bits of knowledge could help me.  

Thanks,

~Lazer

_________________
"Baby, Just Because I Rock, Doesn't Mean I'm Made Of Stone."

On my mixer there is a knob for each channel to adjust the effects. So if you have a mic in 1 then use the effects knob for that channel to tune in the amount of echo or reverb while doing a sound check without music, then try it at that setting with a song and see if it needs to be adjusted. Is this what you're talking about? You can turn the effects going to the main music all the way down and have no effects applied to the recording-this is what I recommend. Just apply effects to the mic channels.

Make sure you don't set the level too high (i.e. 100% wet). Here is what I use on my MX200:



My frequency of use is as in the presets, i.e. 1 most often, then 2, then 3, then 4, and rarely 5 yet.

The Sound Reinforcement Handbook
Gary Davis, Ralph Jones
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0881889 ... eader-page

For some basic and general principal
http://www.rane.com/library.html
http://www.prosoundweb.com/install/c...ab_01_p1.shtml
http://www.yorkville.com/default.asp?p1=6&p2=0&p_id=17
http://www.colomar.com/Shavano/pa_page.html
http://www.peavey.com/support/technotes/
http://harada-sound.com/sound/handbook/index.html
http://members.cox.net/pasystem1/
http://www.soundcraft.com/palz.asp

_________________
I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

This sounds like an equalization problem. One guess is that you are lacking clarity and boosting volume to try and overcompensate.

For most small rooms, keep your subwoofer in line, but make sure your EQ looks something like a slow descent from low freq to high frequency. Start at about +3db on the lowest end, to -3db on the highest end. Then put a little peak at about 2.5 K or 3K. This will improve clarity of the vocals.

My eq line tends to look like this as a starting point:

   40  80  160  320  640  1.2 2.5  5.0  10  15
3 ___ ___
               ----
                        ----
0                              ----         ----
                                       ----         ----
                                                            ----
-3                                                               ----


All this is going to depend on the room, but 2.5Khz is often the key to vocals that are intelligible without being overpowering. Also pay attention to how you position your speakers -- it is quite important. There are some tips out there for distances from the corners and such.

The basic is :
If the singer is too loud; lower the vol in the mic ch. or turn up the vol of the music or do both.

If the singer sound too high:: just trim the hi of the vocal ch. may need to boost the low too.

_________________
I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

First i'd like to say that the book Jian suggested " The Sound Reinforcement Handbook" in my opinion is a must have for anyone trying to learn about sound. Seems I recall that you ended up with a Mackie CFX12 board. I would start with your main fader set to unity (0) or close to it and then adjust the gain on the channels until the signal light just comes on and stays on under normal use. Then adjust your volumes of the channels by using the individual fader. As far as your boards built in EQ, keep in mind the high and the low are both considered shelving type EQ's, where the mid frequency I believe is a parametric type, with a parametric you choose the frequency you want to adjust and then add or subtract with the knob located above. I would suggest experimenting with the mid and I'm pretty sure you will find it will help you with your problem. Now your effect, you have an FX out master and FX in on the individual channels. I think i would start with the FX out master set to around the 1 O:Clock position and your FX in at around 11 O:Clock. Because you are using your MX200 in the configuration you are using, you should be able to set the unit itself to 100% wet as you are using your mixer to actually blend in the FX. Here again experiment with your set up and see what sounds best to you. As far as an external EQ, I use them more for adjusting the speakers for the room, I would leave that in bypass while your trying to adjust your board and then engage it if you need to correct any problems either with the room  or feedback issues. Once again, the book Jian suggested will help you understand how everything works. Learning sound is a lot of trial and error, mostly error . I've been doing it for over 30 years and I still learn something almost dailey.

_________________
Quickness of mind will deceive the eye

I do also have a DBX 231 EQ on this unit as well as a DBX 266XL Compressor.

I've been trying to use the bypass features on everything to slowly add componets into the mix so im not dealing with too many things at once.

I will try what was suggested above many thanks.

~Lazer

_________________
"Baby, Just Because I Rock, Doesn't Mean I'm Made Of Stone."

Keep your compressor completely out of the equation until you have everything sounding good. It is (in a karaoke environment) only intended to keep singers in line, and is not essential at all to a good-sounding system. It can only do you harm until you get your system sounding good.

Gotcha. I heard it could do a lot to deal with feedback which is why I orignally purchased it. I will keep it bypassed until I have the sound right. Thank you all for taking the time to respond.

_________________
"Baby, Just Because I Rock, Doesn't Mean I'm Made Of Stone."

I forgot one thing, I assume you have extra channels on your mixer, so instead of running your Lexicon into the FX return on your board run it into the input of one of your extra channels, just make sure you have the FX shut off on the channel you choose or you will get a lovely loop. By doing this you can add FX easily just by rasing that fader, will also give you the advantage of the tone controls. As others have said, keep everything out of the equation while learning your board, When you do add the compressor, use the channel inserts not globally if you can help it.

_________________
Quickness of mind will deceive the eye

This is interesting. I didn't know this could be done. I'm not really following how this will work if the effects are passed on a separte channel, but I will give it a shot.

_________________
"Baby, Just Because I Rock, Doesn't Mean I'm Made Of Stone."

It not only can be done it is the preferred method for returning FX back to the board. Much easier to see where a fader is than to see where the little bitty knob is set, plus in a live band situation thats how we manage to get repeat on certain phrases and parts of a vocal, just a quick slip with the fader and back down. I haven't used an FX return jack in years. Like i mentioned, just make sure both of the FX knobs are turned off on the channel that you use to return the FX to. Remember the gain has to be up on that channel too, just make sure you see a signal light on the return channel. Try about the 12 O:Clock position to start with on the gain. If you get a signal light on you know the FX is passing through.

_________________
Quickness of mind will deceive the eye

I'll give it a go and let you know how it works. Thanks.

_________________
"Baby, Just Because I Rock, Doesn't Mean I'm Made Of Stone."

If I am reading correctly you have the Mackie CFX12  plus an effects unit and compressor ?

As you title suggests --basics ...    Your mixer already has effects and and a built in EQ ...try running your system wuth just your Power Amp and your Mackie mixer
With your current system and one of your components that is set up improperly could make your overall sound "bad" .  Start simple ..master the macki Cfx12 and then go from there ......  If you're like me you may realize you don't need all the additional effects and enhancers .

I completely disagree with this statement, it IS karaoke which you will have screamers & soft singers, a compressor properly set-up will aid with this very much.  I wouldn't run a show without a compressor in the equation on the vocal mics.  It won't do much in the way of feedback, that's not what it's for.  But do agree that you need to learn what it does & proper settings.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Lonman,

Do you agree with narrowing it down by starting with Mixer / EQ then adding LExicon before the compressor?

What do you think of the above suggestions about adding the Lexicon on a separate channel as opposed to directly in?

_________________
"Baby, Just Because I Rock, Doesn't Mean I'm Made Of Stone."

This is the only way I run the effects unless I have no available channels open, then it goes back through the returns.  Only reason being is you can easily adjust the tone of the effects & even run one into another for a layered multi effect - but this is something you will want to try after you get your 'basics' down.  But yes you can run the effects back into a channel, just as stated, make sure you don't send the effects it's own signal - you will have some very interesting sounds.  Also you are able to easily send the effect to the monitors if needed (don't want to send alot, this will also cause feedback).

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I was just saying that until he gets good sound, a compressor only has the potential to mess it up. I don't know about you, but when I started I was capable of anything, and indeed I had trouble with the compressor until I finally got the right cable (with your help, in fact.)

Since Lazer can't seem to get the system sounding right at all, I am saying that the compressor will not be the magic bullet for that. If it were connected improperly, it could be the problem, though.

By directly in, do you mean via insert I/O? That would essentially mean that you are putting both the compressor and the effects in the insert chain, which if you are doing it has the potential for problems.

Does it sound OK without either the Lexicon or the compressor?

I run the compression via insert I/O, and the Lexicon via the effects bus (i.e. post-fader AUX). I then feed the Lexicon back in via another channel.