Karaoke Scene's Karaoke Forums
https://mail.karaokescene.net/forums/

Eq Question
https://mail.karaokescene.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11586		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  jamkaraoke [ Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Eq Question
This past weekend show I had a fellow KJ/DJ stop in at my show.  
So first he complains that the SOUND at the far- end of the bar is muddy and bassy and the vocals are not cutting through. There have been many a discussion on how irritating OTHER KJ's can be at you shows  so I WON'T GO there.

But the truth is he was right ....  I have described my set up previously but to refresh it is less than optimal....  Due to SPACE limitations  a Pool table and some tables , cigarette machine, video game etc .  I can not put my speakers on stands and or spread out in the bar without being right next to somones table etc.
Or having someone KNOCK THEM OVER ..no stage or anything.

SO I have the speakers  up on three steps that lead into another unused room stacked one on top of another.  So the Horn of the top speaker is about 5ft off the floor and at the far end of the bar where everyone is standing and playing pool etc.

So the sound is GOOD for 3/4  the bar --By the time you get to the other end it is bassy and muddy (..just a little)  MOST people don't mind cause at least you can hear and talk without sceaming ..      But now I'm thinking maybe there is something I can do to even out the sound a little better and maybe not have it so BASS heavy.. I just DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO .    I really like the sound at 70% of the bar  and maybe thats OK???????  

The equipment is shared between myself and the DJ that works at the bar - It is MINE but we both share it .  So I have the 7 band EQ on the powered mixer and thats all to round out the sound ..  Any suggestions or should I be satisfied that 70% of the bar the sound is good ? :thinkin:
Author:  Lonman [ Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Eq Question
I would go with the best sound for the majority.  If you start cutting & adding frequencies to compensate for the back of the room, then your majority of good sound is going to go away.  May consider putting a small powered speaker in the back that way some of the higs & vocals will cut through a little better balancing out the bass/mud.
Author:  LondonLive [ Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Eq Question
It would seem that a lot would depend on the shape of the room itself. Bottom line is, higher frequencies travel in a straight line, low frequencies spread out and get in every nook and cranny, it is just the nature of the way sound travels, particularly when using front loaded cabinets. If you mix the sound for the back of the room then you will loose something in the front of the room. I hate to say it, but here we go with the BBE thing again, with the way the BBE delays the low frequencies slightly, it might clean up how the sound is perceived in the back of the room. The lows will still be there but the ear will hear the highs just slightly before.
Author:  jamkaraoke [ Tue Dec 04, 2007 2:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Eq Question
Lonnie - I agree and that's the way it's been - 70% of the room has a good sound
and any dancing that is had whether while Karaoke singing or DJ'ing is done closest to the speakers so the sound is great there.  This other KJ just got to me  :( and made me think too much.  He probably said something cause HIS friends where the ones sitting farthest away and couldn't hear him  :drums:

London - When I had my rack system there I did have a BBE hooked up for awhile
( I think it was the cheap one 362?)  any way I wasn't thrilled with the sound it gave me and again it may have been due to the set up and speaker placement.

probably another topic but would smaller speakers mounted on the walls THROUGH OUT  THE BAR be better ????  Like 10" ?--- This bar has a Kickazz digital juke box by BOSE with about 8 - 8" speakers on the walls -- ( 4 on each side ) plenty loud enough !!!
Author:  Lonman [ Tue Dec 04, 2007 2:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Eq Question
You would get a better dispersion throughout the bar with smaller speakers placed around although you might be disappointed in the bass response - why I suggested a small one in the back, it would break up the 'mud' with some added clarity in that area.
Author:  jamkaraoke [ Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Eq Question
I'll have to look into the powered speaker it might be "doable" -
I'm going to talk to management about 2008 and some more $$$$$$$

I might be able to use the additional speaker as a TOOL to get the raise I deserve  :shock: - To be honest without any additional  "ching" for 2008 they might have to live with a somewhat muddy sound in the back  :D
Author:  mckyj57 [ Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Eq Question
How about investing in a little carpentry to put a speaker shelf/stand in an appropriate place?
Author:  jamkaraoke [ Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Eq Question
It's a very small BAR - low ceilings and no space really to put shelves -

I I had the space I would just put them up on some stands  - but my set up is right next to the pool table --sometimes the players have to wait until the singer is done singing or unless the singer moves forward or backward a littlle   LMAO  LMAO
Author:  mckyj57 [ Wed Dec 05, 2007 10:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Eq Question
Aren't there wall-mounted speaker holders like:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SS7913B/?foo=bar

or

http://www.directproaudio.com/product.c ... ctid=55894

I would think they would be cheap to install and would work even in a place with low ceilings and not much floor space.
Author:  jamkaraoke [ Wed Dec 05, 2007 11:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Eq Question
Thanks for the links --I'll take a look this Saturday to see if these might work?
Than I would need the okay for a semi permanet install like this.

Could I get away with maybe some lite weight 12" on the walls and maybe a SUB stuck in a corner somewhere?    --  If I'm correct I do not have to worry so much about the placemet of a sub?
Author:  JoeChartreuse [ Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Eq Question
Leave it the way it is.  Besides possibly lowering sound quality for the majority of the bar, you would probably get complaints from customers who sit back there just so they CAN have a conversation, or even to give their ears a hiding place from, um, less gifted singers.

    I actually make a POINT of setting up sound so that this sort of space exists someplace in the bar, and get a lot of appreciation for it.
Author:  jamkaraoke [ Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Eq Question
Joe

I agree - Ideally I would love to have an evenly dispered sound but it won't be feasable in this place
Author:  sidewinder [ Tue Dec 25, 2007 1:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Eq Question
You can never make everyone happy. But you need to get the speakers apart from each other.  Stacked up, the bottom speaker is about worthless for the horn to be heard more than 5 feet.  That's why it sounds muddy.  They can only hear the bass and no high end. Get some stands and find a way to get them up and apart.

I have seen that method used before. Someone thinks by putting the top speaker on the floor they can use it as a bass speaker.  Well ya...you just killed the horn from transmitting the high end past the speaker. Thereby rendering half of your system useless and only adding to the muddiness of the sound.  

Close the pool table, it's only 4 hours. How many games of pool are we talking about? I have a bar owner that won't close the dart board on karaoke night. He claims it makes a lot of money.  For all the time i have been playing there, it hasn't brought in $100.  They, the players are loud and disruptive and use up a lot of floor space.  You said it's a small bar. The possibility of a fight breaking out because a regular singer caused someone to miss a shot, isn't worth it. The dart and pool players are always in somebody's way. I also find that the pool players are not usually there on a regular basis.  The karaoke people are. Try talking to the bar owner and tell him people are complaining about they way it sounds.  Tell him you need the room to set up the speakers properly.  Tell him he could be chasing away regulars that are coming to sing and spending more than the pool players will ever bring in.  He's robbing Peter to pay Paul. If they complain enough they might find another place to sing.
Author:  jerry12x [ Tue Dec 25, 2007 10:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Eq Question
Why not put a box under them for a bit more height.
It will make a differance.
Author:  Blind Snoopy Rhodes [ Tue Dec 25, 2007 8:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Eq Question
This suggestion depends on what the cielings are made of but the sound can be bounced off the ceiling to get through the house a bit better sometimes,  the comment about the low ceilings made me think of this right off.  Just tilting the speakers back on a small angle can make a world of difference.  it can cut the sound pressure levels in the front of the house a bit and make the back a bit more even.  Check out amp stands on Musicians Friend for some cheap ways to do this.  Aiming those horns up a bit can really help a lot in this kind of setup.

BSR
Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC - 8 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
https://www.phpbb.com/