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Oh my friggin.... ASCAP SH** STILL !!
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Author:  Karaoke Kelley [ Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Oh my friggin.... ASCAP SH** STILL !!
Im SOOOO  po'ed !! This guy & his ASCAP sh** are making me & my husband fight now !!!! So the ascap fees are 750 a year, the mgr of this bar is STILL wanting us to pay half he says he called 2 of our competitors & they told him that they build the ascap fees into their fee to the bar so THEY pay ascap, (the karaoke company)  ...weve been there almost a year & didnt "build" this into our fees. He ( the bar mgr)  says we can, which he says will pay US another 10$ per hour to pay ascap. WTF !! Can this be done? Can a karaoke company be paying ascap on behalf of the venue we work in ? Why wouldnt the bar owner just pay it instaed of paying us more yearly than the 750$ they origionally owe to ASCAP ...Sound fishy to anyone but me ? Hubby is willing to do this. Im having a f-ing COW !!!!! All hubby sees are $$$ right now...I am trying to look past them ( the $)  to what the he%% they have up their sleeves b/c NOONE is THAT fricking STUPID to pay US to pay ASCAP right ????  We do 2 nights a week there right now but Im ready to say pi$$ on it ! Oh & would someone PLEASE tel my hubby that that is not 750$ JUST for karaoke its for the tvs & jukebox or any other stuff like that too !!! I am"crazy" as hubby says.... GRRRR ! Even 350$ is too much am I right ? We shouldnt pay a PENNY right ?? we are not responsible for ANY ascap crap right ? Please correct me if I am wrong.. Thanks for all your help :)
Author:  Catseyeview [ Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oh my friggin.... ASCAP SH** STILL !!
It's not your responsibility Kelley, it's the bar owners plain and simple.  If the "other" people he's talked to say they're willing to build the fees into their fees they don't know the law.

Personally I think he's just trying to "convince" you to pay because he knows it's his problem.
Author:  Keith02 [ Fri Nov 02, 2007 11:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oh my friggin.... ASCAP SH** STILL !!
"The day the music died"....."Bye, bye Miss American pie...."...Ever heard that song?

RIAA and ASCAP is a nothing more than a greedy bunch of do nothing Jews who have forever fleeced performing artists.......Now that they don't control the vinyl presses, they employ Jew lawyers to extort their 'pound of flesh' from the listening public and those who simply sing....Even Girl Scouts are expected to pay if they sing "Row, Row, Row Your Boat" around a camp fire.

Call me anti whatever, but it's a fact.

Go read "The Merchant of Venice" and then read about "Usury" and how the Arab/Islamic Law addresses same....then read up on "middleman"....ASCAP and RIAA are nothing more than 'middlemen' who so far convinced performing artist that they can earn a few extra bucks if they allow them to extort it from their listening public under the guise of "LAW".

Wanna put a stop to it?......Simply STOP buying/renting prerecorded music and video.....I'm serious, do not buy/rent a CD of DVD for a year.......Just one year is all it would take and then the recording/performing artist would toss RIAA and ASCAP out like the thieving trash they are.
Author:  TTowntenor [ Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oh my friggin.... ASCAP SH** STILL !!
Karaoke  Kelley @ Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:43 pm wrote:
Im SOOOO  po'ed !! This guy & his ASCAP sh** are making me & my husband fight now !!!! So the ascap fees are 750 a year, the mgr of this bar is STILL wanting us to pay half he says he called 2 of our competitors & they told him that they build the ascap fees into their fee to the bar so THEY pay ascap, (the karaoke company)  ...weve been there almost a year & didnt "build" this into our fees. He ( the bar mgr)  says we can, which he says will pay US another 10$ per hour to pay ascap. WTF !! Can this be done? Can a karaoke company be paying ascap on behalf of the venue we work in ? Why wouldnt the bar owner just pay it instaed of paying us more yearly than the 750$ they origionally owe to ASCAP ...Sound fishy to anyone but me ? Hubby is willing to do this. Im having a f-ing COW !!!!! All hubby sees are $$$ right now...I am trying to look past them ( the $)  to what the he%% they have up their sleeves b/c NOONE is THAT fricking STUPID to pay US to pay ASCAP right ????  We do 2 nights a week there right now but Im ready to say pi$$ on it ! Oh & would someone PLEASE tel my hubby that that is not 750$ JUST for karaoke its for the tvs & jukebox or any other stuff like that too !!! I am"crazy" as hubby says.... GRRRR ! Even 350$ is too much am I right ? We shouldnt pay a PENNY right ?? we are not responsible for ANY ascap crap right ? Please correct me if I am wrong.. Thanks for all your help :)


What it sounds like is they are trying to get you to pay for their ENTIRE ASCAP fees, not just the karaoke portion which is basically anywhere from .25-.50 cents per occupent...almost sounds like they just got nailed for NEVER paying any fees in the past for any kind of the music/video reproduction they may have & are taking it out on you.  They have absolutely no right to ask the dj/karaoke company to pay that, it's not your responsibility.  If they try to force you & go with one of the other companies if you deny it, you may have a possible lawsuit against the bar.  If the other companies say they'll pay it's because they are either stupid or they are charging more to compensate.
You can call ASCAP directly and find out all the facts, they will tell you it's not your responsibility, the bar has to fill out all the paperwork in their name, not you!
Author:  Flipper [ Sat Nov 03, 2007 5:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oh my friggin.... ASCAP SH** STILL !!
Not sure what angle the bar owner is coming from. He has fees for all entertainment machines, live entertainment, and karaoke. It looks like he's trying to get you to pay for them all. Fact is ASCAP will not even consider you in the equation as you have nothing to do with it. IT'S THE VENUE....NOT THE ENTERTAINMENT THAT IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE FEES!!!

As for the other karaoke host comments he made.....HE'S LYING TO YOU!! or They are lying to him to discredit you. But somewhere I smell a RAT.

I would say OK to the $10 per hour raise and then say Keep it! You have lost nothing by him paying you more and then giving it back to him. You have also gained a tax deduction. Make him give you a reciept for the money you give back to him.

As far as you paying for the fees in your name.....IT'S NOT POSSIBLE TO DO THAT WITH ASCAP!!

Set an appointment with the ASCAP rep and the bar owner and hash this out.

Relax....this is not the end of the world as we know it, and certainly not something that should cause a train wreck with you and your hubby. This bar owner is being a bone-head and needs to step up to the plate and be a business man as it is HIS RESPONSIBILITY!!

Good Luck Darlin'
Author:  jreynolds [ Sat Nov 03, 2007 6:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oh my friggin.... ASCAP SH** STILL !!
nmmnmnmnm
Author:  karyoker [ Sat Nov 03, 2007 7:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oh my friggin.... ASCAP SH** STILL !!
Kelly is this for jukebox as well if its for karaoke how many nights a week do you do?
Author:  Odie [ Sat Nov 03, 2007 5:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oh my friggin.... ASCAP SH** STILL !!
Check this out Kelley.  Straight from the horses mouth or maybe it's some other area of the horse!  See FAQ #12 --   http://www.ascap.com/licensing/licensingfaq.html

"12. Aren't musicians, entertainers and DJ's responsible for obtaining permission for music they perform?

Some people mistakenly assume that musicians and entertainers must obtain licenses to perform copyrighted music or that businesses where music is performed can shift their responsibility to musicians or entertainers. The law says all who participate in, or are responsible for, performances of music are legally responsible. Since it is the business owner who obtains the ultimate benefit from the performance, it is the business owner who obtains the license. Music license fees are one of the many costs of doing business."
Author:  Flipper [ Sat Nov 03, 2007 5:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oh my friggin.... ASCAP SH** STILL !!
Odie's fact find sums it all up in one paragraph, you are not responsible.

Now if you want to cut some sort of deal with the owner to pay for the Karaoke portion of the fees...say 1/2 from you and 1/2 from him and that makes you and him happy, then so be it. I don't think the annual fees for 1 night per week is all that much.

Even if you two do strike a deal...He is the one who has to hand the fees to over to ASCAP.

Of course if you pay 1 year of fees in advance then you should expect him to give you a years contract, or at least a written agreement that if you do not last out the full year that he will refund you the unused portion of the fees. I think that would completely reasonable in this circumstance.

By the way I have never once suggested that you quit this guy. He still has to deal with the problem if he wants karaoke whether you stay or not.

All I'm saying is stand your ground and make it a fair deal for you.
Author:  jreynolds [ Sat Nov 03, 2007 10:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oh my friggin.... ASCAP SH** STILL !!
nmmnmnmnm
Author:  knightshow [ Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oh my friggin.... ASCAP SH** STILL !!
break the ASCAP fees into what it costs for 365 days a year, and you guys say you're doing 2 nights a week? that's 104 performances out of 365.

$750  for 365 days a week is basically $2.06 dollars a day.

Tell the bar that you'll deduct $2.00 from your nightly fee so that he can now afford to pay ascap for the nights you guys are now responsible for.

Kelley, it is NOT up to you to pay the ASCAP fees for the ENTIRE BAR. If he wants to throw ASCAP in your face, break down the facts, and then tell him [highlight=gold]"Fine, if you want to do this, great... but I'll only chip in on the nights that I AM RESPONSIBLE FOR KARAOKE. YOU bring in the money for your bar, and your TV, Radio, Jukebox... that's up to YOU to pay for it."[/highlight]
Author:  Lonman [ Sun Nov 04, 2007 1:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oh my friggin.... ASCAP SH** STILL !!
knightshow @ Sun Nov 04, 2007 6:09 am wrote:
break the ASCAP fees into what it costs for 365 days a year, and you guys say you're doing 2 nights a week? that's 104 performances out of 365.

$750  for 365 days a week is basically $2.06 dollars a day.

Tell the bar that you'll deduct $2.00 from your nightly fee so that he can now afford to pay ascap for the nights you guys are now responsible for.

Kelley, it is NOT up to you to pay the ASCAP fees for the ENTIRE BAR. If he wants to throw ASCAP in your face, break down the facts, and then tell him [highlight=gold]"Fine, if you want to do this, great... but I'll only chip in on the nights that I AM RESPONSIBLE FOR KARAOKE. YOU bring in the money for your bar, and your TV, Radio, Jukebox... that's up to YOU to pay for it."[/highlight]


I agree.
Author:  Karaoke Kelley [ Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oh my friggin.... ASCAP SH** STILL !!
Hubby just called ASCAP. This is am email I just got from him:

The lady at ASCAP said it is his responsibility but a DJ /KJ could obtain a license for that venue.  For two nights a week it would cost us 535.00 a year.  That would cover karaoke only.  The trivia guys would have to pay his own or the bowling alley would have to pay his portion.



Here is what I would like to propose to Pat.  If he guarantees us (in writing) a year at 2 nights a week will add $15 (7.50 per show) per week to cover that fee.  If he cuts a day or all together he will have to pay us the unused amount.



As far as this year we will pay ½ of the $535.00., not the $750.00.  That would be roughly $22.50 per week added to their shows.  If we agree to this we want a guarantee through the end of the year.

I STILL dont understand it why would we PAY to work there ???
Author:  Catseyeview [ Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oh my friggin.... ASCAP SH** STILL !!
While I can understand your wanting to obtain a license I'm not sure about paying half for less than two months?  Doesn't make sense hun, hate to see the change coming outta your pocket for something unnecessary at this stage of the game.

As far as paying the bar owner's fees it still doesn't sway from the fact it's HIS responsibility to pay the ASCAP fees for HIS club; he's taking advantage of you plain and simple.  To me that's simply not worth it and I'd find another venue before he finds another way to stick it to ya.

ASCAP/BMI used to basically be a Union for musicians; over the past few years it's become nothing but legalized racketeering.

Just my  :2cents:
Author:  karyoker [ Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oh my friggin.... ASCAP SH** STILL !!
Kelly the only only advantage I can see with that is if you approach another bar you can say you pay ASCAP But I do think $5 a show is outlandish it is greedy blood money.

If a bar has a dance floor the insurance goes up....and on an..d on... There are three things I wouldnt want right now a dairy herd a bunch of horses but most of all a bar...

In the last 10 years over 1/3 of the bars in Chicago closed.....Next they will be blaming bars for global warming and obesity.....I can tell you why domestic violence increased  over the last 10 years.. I can also tell you why there are more and more "garage" bars. I'm on SS and still paying for millionares greed I got 2 words..... It's another nail for public karaoke.
Author:  Flipper [ Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oh my friggin.... ASCAP SH** STILL !!
That blows me away that someone at ASCAP said you can get a license for that venue yourself. That is contrary to all my phone calls to ASCAP here in Oregon.

They were adamant that it was only the venue that could obtain the license.

Oh well!  LMAO
Author:  Karaoke Kelley [ Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oh my friggin.... ASCAP SH** STILL !!
Flipper I think you were told right, If you really look at what the lady said ahe said it IS their responsibility, but we "could" ( as if to say "if we wanted to", because ultimatly they dont care WHERE the $ comes from as long as they get paid, & we basically with the phone call to her let her KNOW that theyre gonna have trouble getting this venue to pay them)  get one FOR that venue, not for US but for THE VENUE... WHY would I dop that ?? Im not going to do that out of the kindness of my heart. I dont love lugging alll this equipment around & staying out all hours of the night THAT much ! LOL !! It just seems like we'd be a middle man & THATS what we ( if we do this thing) WILL charge him ( the bar owner) the ASCAP fee PLUS an adminastration fee for the BS ! So hed be better off just paying ASCAP himself, but we'll give him the choice after hearing the #'s its my HOPE he'll back away from wanting us in the loop ! I JUST dont want to be involved with ASCAP at all, I feel it would be opening a can of worms especially when it gets around town that Star Sounds Karaoke pays ASCAP fees...Too much BS to me...
Author:  karyoker [ Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oh my friggin.... ASCAP SH** STILL !!
I am personally writing my local Rep... If the singers knew what was going they would do the same I intend on informing my singers about whats going on I  encourage everybody here to do the same..
Author:  exweedfarmer [ Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oh my friggin.... ASCAP SH** STILL !!
Don't forget Kelley, just because you have paid ASCAP doesn't mean that you have paid BMI or SEASAC.  They are going to want fees too, or that's the way it worked a few years ago anyway.  Or, the independents like Hank Jr.  If you "live to love Texas women " he's supposed to get his cut too.

It is just not your problem.
Author:  Murray C [ Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oh my friggin.... ASCAP SH** STILL !!
exweed is correct in that ASCAP may not necessarily cover all of the songs in your songlist and there may be other fees payable to BMI or whoever holds the rights to songs that ASCAP doesn't.... the ASCAP site has a list of their members.

Also, be aware that if you do pay the licence as you propose, then it is only for that one venue... if word gets around that you are paying the ASCAP fee for that venue, then other venues might expect you to do the same for them... you might be stepping on a mighty big escalator!
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