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Maybe I'm being too harsh or strict, but I can't enjoy a song if the vocal is off pitch or has bad timing.  Of course an occasional slip is normal but if bad pitch and timing is consistent throughout, I just can't seem to appreciate the other aspects of the song.  To me, you need to get those two areas correct before worrying about good dynamics, emotional connection and other elements of good singing technique.  That's one reason I don't sub songs a lot -- it's just too much work to get it right for me!  

As this is phrased the answer would obviously be "Good Singing" in the respective genre depending on venue of the performed music which might or might not enable bare-essentials to pass at all.  If you are looking for answers such LIVE singing performance "showmanship", "Emotional outpour" "stage presence" are important to me, so it'd seem reasonable to qualify this with "Good LIVE overall performance", vs "Studio or Singers Showcase type performance", The live singer can't get by on JUST bare essentials of "singing" in certain settings, other times perhaps.  Singing performance can be excellent, but the person remains stonefaced and devoid of emotion, movement presence etc..Singing can still be fabulous, the overall performance might lack... So bare essential elements of good singing performance require nothing more than "Good singing" logically.


The answer to the later is the person needs to have some ability in areas of performing to make the act interesting.  This requires more than just musical ability (or singing), A musician must also learn how to be a performer assuming they are a performing act up and real on stage in front of an audience,  Mixing online is different as are other singing applications. Studio retakes are very different than live one-shot, etc.. DEPENDS on venue of singing and genre.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

guess you dont listen to Dylan then

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

Agreed Vicki,  Many of us are from an era of music where Singing told "The Story". Term being Ballad era of music.  Singing also included spoken phrases and technical imperfect areas IE....  "I Stashed the bill in my shirt", Chapin...  What qualifies as good singing ?  The listeners preference for the performers style.  Nothing more.

The most fundamental aspect of Good singing performance is the ear of the individual making such a determination.  Little more.  What a "good singer" to me is today, IS NOT what a good singer "to me" was prior to my acquired taste for Jagger, Cocker, Rod Stewart, Dylan, and SO many others... Is voice gravel "Good singing" ?  to me it is fabulous assuming assuming it's Burton Cummings... To the operatic tenor is that "good singing" ? Not sure, I suppose if he likes that genre of rock too.. It's individual aesthetic preference and NOTHING beyond.. Unless you break this down specifying genre, performance type, etc.

Assuming you do, there will be as many differing answers as people you ask.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Steven, I should have clarified further.  I was strictly talking about listening to a song (the audio experience). I wasn't referring to stage presence or other visuals pertaining to a live on stage performance.

Good catch there Vicki, Bob Dylan is a big exception.  I do like Dylan!

yep agreed Kappy...some of the most memorable songs are not technically perfect but the story they told and the emotion that was felt by the listener as a consequence was incredibly powerful. McArthur Park is a prime example, anything by Dylan as already mentioned and Leonard Cohen must fall into that category also. How could ever say Croce was technically perfect but there was not a better story teller or musical humourist before or since in my opinion

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

And to me "The Beatles" are an exception as were MOST of my preferences at this current time (at one point). I never considered ANY of them individually impressive singers.  Collectively what they did was so very different however !

 The Beatles and so many others are/were AMAZING (in my mind given their age and time period) absolute genuises as musicians and what they did TOGETHER.  Individually I never considered ANY of them technically striking singers in terms of vocal quality or ability to just sing, In terms of their ballad harmony work ?  Absolutely brilliant !!.. As composers they were phenomenal too IMHO. So,  While I respect McCartneys ability for upper range in singing, NONE of the Beatles I thought were ever individually "good' singers yet collectively they have got to be the most amazing band ever in so many ways !

I like what I like,  I can just as easily explain to you WHY I like the pastel water-colors and WHY they make me feel a certain way as I can "Good singer" meaning I can not substantiate any of this, It depends entirely on MANY areas.  I can give you a few examples however these examples are JUST my own conditioned preference.. Aesthetic values are VERY tough to understand in their basic form.. Conditioning, our chemistry, you name it..  What is a "Good color" ?  It depends AGAIN on the Viewer, as good singer does the listener... My father is basically tonally challenged,  of course half of the drunken males that aren't artistic and see a voluptuous female on stage singing totally off key might be too.... Who is ANYONE to qualify "Good aesthetic taste"...  IMHO... Burton Cummings,  Brad Delp, Karen Carpenter, Klaus Meine, OK what now, OperaKitty, Nathan, Vicki (runs threw list of KS membership) are among the top vocalists, can I substantiate this or justify why ?  OF COURSE I can not !  It's because what they are singing, and the music style and so many OTHER things all "Do something for me".  NOthing more.. Aesthetics are subjective..  For all I know, Some rhinocerous someplace might like my singing because it puts him in an amorous mood.. Who am I too challenge this ?

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Hmmmm...well...this is pretty subjective to the listener, really.  For me, being a technically perfect sing doesn't do it for me.  Even in a recording, I want to hear some emotion and connection with what is being sung.  If that is there, I'm willing to overlook some technical problems.  I want to hear LIFE in a performance.  Someone like Josh Groban  or Charlotte Church bores me.  While Anthony Warlow and Linda Eder are just amazing!

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"I hold the key to an open door....will I ever be free...?"

I want to sing "Music of the Night" just like Michael Crawford.  I'd also be happy singing like any of Andy Williams brothers (assuming singing like Andy is an unreasonable request). However if what I hear sounded like Elvis Costello I'd feel ashamed.  Seriously, I have a very precise Idea of what to me "Singer" means, and that's what I gage my own voice by. I dislike the nasally, weak, breathy, headvoice sounding singer, and singing in chest voice is VERY VERY difficult for me breathing-wise

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Perfect example of a singer who really connects with what he is doing and yet is pretty imperfect technically.  Crawford is NOT a singer, but a comedic actor.  Yet he so understood that role and what he was doing that it made him BRILLIANT.



So many singers - no matter how good other people think they are - don't care for their own voices.  You're not alone there, and may not be nearly as bad as you think you are.

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"I hold the key to an open door....will I ever be free...?"

Are you SERIOUS ?   That guy ISN'T a singer ?  :shock:

OK,  I'll admit, Crawford doesn't sound too polished hitting his higher notes such as "let your spirit start to soar!",  but he sounds pretty decent to me.

I wouldn't be a bad choir singer Operakitty. Assuming I liked choir vocals I might settle.  Like a told you, I want edge to my voice.  I want to be a rock tenor.  Otherwise I'm taking my ball and going home

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Nope, he is NOT a singer.  He was made famous in a British sitcom called "Some Mother's do 'ave 'em."  Total physical comedy.  Check out the film version of Hello Dolly! *laugh*  He's never had the success in musicals he had in Phantom.   In fact, they had to make so many changes for him in Dance of the Vampires that he was a big reason the show was NOT successful.  His most recent musical role was purely comedic - complete with fat suit.  Honestly, a lot of what made him so fabulous in Phantom was his charisma, not his vocal prowess.  



Aaawwww....

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"I hold the key to an open door....will I ever be free...?"

I believe you, I was just reading his biography and it does discuss his british sitcom of the 1970's however it also states this



I suppose it gets interesting because MOST of the vocalists that I envy for singing ability you'd likely consider damaged voices.  You are likely correct.  It has so much to do with my conditioning and being a product of a rock era. Voice gravel isn't technically "an asset" except in the style I happen to like.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Exceptional singing voices in boys don't always carry past puberty.



I used to date a guy who is an AMAZING rock tenor, but he also pulls off some exceptional legit Broadway stuff.  As much as he smoked when we were dating, I'm sure he had some serious damage.  Not saying I don't care for the sound...it's actually pretty sexy...*laugh*

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"I hold the key to an open door....will I ever be free...?"

I know,  Good rock singers often are sexy to women.  You don't think that had some influence on my conditioning and aesthetic preferences ?  

Of course it did !

Good rock musicians are sexy !   Since I'm going thru mid-life crises, I want a sexy singing voice !  I'm bored playing just bass, guitar and piano.. I want to sing too.. I bought the drumset 5 years ago,and that's coming along slowly but NOT as slowly as my singing. I'm not into superficiality such as corvettes. porsches, or any material stuff,  I just want to be a famous rock star within the next few months.

I want to be sexy and talented like my buddy Ok What now !



and I want to sing even BETTER than this guy !!!!

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

OK.  I'm acting bratty, babyish, and I'm overtired..  I'm going to lay here and pout..

Night all  LOL

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

 LMAO It's that whole "bad boy" image, I guess...



Sounds reasonable enough to me...*impish grin*





Well....I dunno...I mean...I'm probably a little biased here....but I doubt anyone could be better than him....*giggle*

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"I hold the key to an open door....will I ever be free...?"

Disallowed!

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"I hold the key to an open door....will I ever be free...?"

Opera Kitty is correct...he's not a singer in fact his album sux...he was right for the Phantom however.
Some mothers do 'ave 'em was a very amusing series...not the absolute best of british in my opinion (no-one does humour as well as the brits) but close. Plus he did all his own stunts as well.

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

I know nothing about Crawford.  My sole opinion was formed based upon a tape I have that has "Music Of the Night".  I never even heard him sing anything else from Phantom.  It's one of those "All Your Favorite Songs" type things courtesy of Ronco Ent. (and they throw in the Fisher-matic too for only $19.95).  BUT,  I was extremely impressed by what I heard on that one song. I also assumed it's a difficult song to sing. I'm surprised that he could pull off what he has in the one song I heard assuming many do not consider him a singer.  I just don't understand
Not disagreeing with either of you because I don't know.  Just surprised.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".