Karaoke Scene's Karaoke Forums :: This gal just works at a bar

since the kj doesnt own the material or equipment, i cant see where he/she would be liable. i guess it would be akin to driving a company vehicle with expired tags. you really have no control over that except to let the company know.

Question:

If you work at a bar and the karaoke system belongs to the owner and all you do is go in every night and run the show and you do not use any of your own media, who would be liable if the piracy cops came in?

My thinking is that the guy running the show has no control over what is on the machine. He is merely running the show. The owner would be the responsible party since it is his equipment.

Right... Wrong??? What are your thoughts??

xx @ Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:54 am wrote:

But if you are driving the vehicle with the expired tags and you get pulled over you get the ticket. Not the owner of the car.???

xx @ Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:54 am wrote:

Ah, but it is the drivers responsibility to KNOW if the tabs/registration/valid insurance or what is in the car they are driving before they take possession for the borrowed duration. It's like borrowing your buddies car to get stopped & have them do a search & find a couple bags of coke, your buddy isn't going to jail - YOU are.

Right now everything on the hard drive seems to be legal (Chuck and Gigi ripped everything for him). The owner has said that he doesn't care what is put on the machine. What concerns me is the KJ that runs the equipment Sun - Thurs. We have no idea what he is putting on the machine and how legal that may be. The owner expressed to us that he would like us to take the customer CDG's and rip them to the machine so he will have the music and the singer doesn't have to bring their CDG's in all the time. I am concerned about that.

I'm not a law breaker and I just wanna do what is right. This is not my main source of income, just something I am doing for fun on the weekends. Cause I'll tell you this guy doesn't pay worth a crap.

Author:	Isis [ Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:39 am ]
Post subject:	This gal just works at a bar
Question: If you work at a bar and the karaoke system belongs to the owner and all you do is go in every night and run the show and you do not use any of your own media, who would be liable if the piracy cops came in? My thinking is that the guy running the show has no control over what is on the machine. He is merely running the show. The owner would be the responsible party since it is his equipment. Right... Wrong??? What are your thoughts??

Author:	pflugerville [ Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:54 am ]
Post subject:	Re: This guy just works at a bar
since the kj doesnt own the material or equipment, i cant see where he/she would be liable. i guess it would be akin to driving a company vehicle with expired tags. you really have no control over that except to let the company know.

Author:	karyoker [ Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:36 am ]
Post subject:	Re: This guy just works at a bar
ARRRGH Mateys Get all the porn offon ur hard drives!! Standby to repel boarders!!! Avast!!!~ Hear Ye now!!!

Author:	Isis [ Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:10 am ]
Post subject:	Re: This guy just works at a bar
xx @ Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:54 am wrote: since the kj doesnt own the material or equipment, i cant see where he/she would be liable. i guess it would be akin to driving a company vehicle with expired tags. you really have no control over that except to let the company know. But if you are driving the vehicle with the expired tags and you get pulled over you get the ticket. Not the owner of the car.???

Author:	Mark Cheetah [ Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:26 am ]
Post subject:	Re: This guy just works at a bar
Maybe the KJ could be charged as an "accessory" if the owner gets arrested. Also, "middlemen" for drug dealers get busted all the time. I really don't know the law; I'm just extremely paranoid about everything! LOL

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This gal just works at a bar https://mail.karaokescene.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10872	Page 1 of 2

Author:	karyoker [ Sun Sep 16, 2007 12:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: This guy just works at a bar
It wouldnt be a bust A federal bust requires 2-3 years of investigation and costs hundreds of thousand dollars. Now do you really think they are going to expend that much time and expense on some little KJ or bar owner? Now there are some whom I regard now as mafia that sues for monetary gains and threaten with copyright laws. Unless they have FBI or federal backup concerning federal laws they have no teeth other than bark. It doesnt have to do with copyright it has to do with their greed fees. I have been cited by the FCC for incomplete transmitter logs, a tower needing painting, investigated for illegal frequency and power violations . I have personally told OSHA DOD IRS State health inspectors CPA a three star Admiral and the FBI Vice squad and others to go to hell. Now I dont know who the hell karaoke piracy cops are but you better tell them to stay the hell away from my bar.

Author:	Lonman [ Sun Sep 16, 2007 12:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: This guy just works at a bar
Isis @ Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:39 am wrote: Question: If you work at a bar and the karaoke system belongs to the owner and all you do is go in every night and run the show and you do not use any of your own media, who would be liable if the piracy cops came in? My thinking is that the guy running the show has no control over what is on the machine. He is merely running the show. The owner would be the responsible party since it is his equipment. Right... Wrong??? What are your thoughts?? As I was told at one time, the kj (regardless of owning the equipment/media, bar owner/manager AND singer could be liable.

Author:	Lonman [ Sun Sep 16, 2007 12:39 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: This guy just works at a bar
xx @ Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:54 am wrote: since the kj doesnt own the material or equipment, i cant see where he/she would be liable. i guess it would be akin to driving a company vehicle with expired tags. you really have no control over that except to let the company know. Ah, but it is the drivers responsibility to KNOW if the tabs/registration/valid insurance or what is in the car they are driving before they take possession for the borrowed duration. It's like borrowing your buddies car to get stopped & have them do a search & find a couple bags of coke, your buddy isn't going to jail - YOU are.

Author:	Dr Fred [ Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: This guy just works at a bar
If you are an employe knowingly involved in illegal activity then you are liable. Sometimes it may pay not to look too hard if you "suspect", but do not know. For something like karaoke, where ANY busts are rare, then yes you are not too likely to get in trouble. In most cases the violations are for copying the songs illegally, or for not paying their BMI license. In such cases the penalty would all be monitary, and the responsiblity of the bar. If you however own the equipment and lied to your bar owner about legality of how you aquired the songs, then there might be a bit more of a problem. The big fish (bar owners) are going to have to pay any penalties. The little fish (kj, bartender, singers) just might get a stern warning if that.

Author:	knightshow [ Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: This guy just works at a bar
I'd only worry about what you have on the system... NOT the customer cdrs that are brought in. You have no way of knowing if they're legally bought or not, compiled at home, etc.

Author:	Isis [ Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: This guy just works at a bar
Right now everything on the hard drive seems to be legal (Chuck and Gigi ripped everything for him). The owner has said that he doesn't care what is put on the machine. What concerns me is the KJ that runs the equipment Sun - Thurs. We have no idea what he is putting on the machine and how legal that may be. The owner expressed to us that he would like us to take the customer CDG's and rip them to the machine so he will have the music and the singer doesn't have to bring their CDG's in all the time. I am concerned about that. I'm not a law breaker and I just wanna do what is right. This is not my main source of income, just something I am doing for fun on the weekends. Cause I'll tell you this guy doesn't pay worth a crap.

Author:	pflugerville [ Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: This guy just works at a bar
Isis @ Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:10 pm wrote: xx @ Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:54 am wrote: since the kj doesnt own the material or equipment, i cant see where he/she would be liable. i guess it would be akin to driving a company vehicle with expired tags. you really have no control over that except to let the company know. But if you are driving the vehicle with the expired tags and you get pulled over you get the ticket. Not the owner of the car.??? this is true, but if you've done due diligence and let the company know (in the case of the car) they should pay the fine. as for the pirated music...i wouldn't work under thse circumstances for fear of bad things happening to me!

Author:	pflugerville [ Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: This guy just works at a bar
Lonman @ Sun Sep 16, 2007 2:39 pm wrote: xx @ Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:54 am wrote: since the kj doesnt own the material or equipment, i cant see where he/she would be liable. i guess it would be akin to driving a company vehicle with expired tags. you really have no control over that except to let the company know. Ah, but it is the drivers responsibility to KNOW if the tabs/registration/valid insurance or what is in the car they are driving before they take possession for the borrowed duration. It's like borrowing your buddies car to get stopped & have them do a search & find a couple bags of coke, your buddy isn't going to jail - YOU are. you are correct. hoepfully you read my repost on the matter. because i concur with you wholly.

Author:	karyoker [ Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: This guy just works at a bar
Is there anybody here that has lost 50,000 with one hail storm? Is there anybody here that has actually run a successful business? Is there anybody here that knows what honest competition is? Is there anybody here that their entire business business practice is not based upon a single rumor about law? Is there anybody here that actually owns a business and not expecting federal control to take care of their competition? The piracy cops are!!!Boo Hoo!! We will be saved!! When you have 4 generations invested in a farm and you almost lose it then get excited.. With a few hundred invested in cd's you are talking federal copyright and major, laws concerning your business which chances are you dont even have registered or pay taxes on. When you are a registered business owner and pay taxes then maybe we will talk. In the meantime dont give me your hypocritical crap. If you cant compete in the REAL world and discuss real business practices and not hypothetical laws or imaginary law enforcement agencies and not expect uncle sam to save your pathetic few thousand dollar business then you are DOOMED..

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Author:	knightshow [ Sun Sep 16, 2007 4:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: This guy just works at a bar
jeez what a drama queen!

Author:	karyoker [ Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: This guy just works at a bar
As one whom has had dealings with every federal agency known I would like to to know who the piracy cops are affiliated with and who their backup is. Do they have special badges? Special priveledges?Above the law? Is there a federal agency that I havnt told to go to hell ? You people are in,a phantasy world. I am glad that I grew up in America when America was sane for you people have the mental capacity of bedbugs. You totally rely on government to butcher your own food or China to grow your carrots How many here has killed and picked a chicken for Sunday dinner? OH NO NO Huh Huh That is the types that peak of piracy cops. Do you realize there are more pirates in the cariebian now than ever before? Are you people real? You sound more like a radical (@$%&#!) than somebody trying to make a living. How many here have paid for and put together their first system then the best by earning it with honest gigs?

Author:	mckyj57 [ Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: This guy just works at a bar
Isis @ Sun Sep 16, 2007 6:49 pm wrote: Right now everything on the hard drive seems to be legal (Chuck and Gigi ripped everything for him). The owner has said that he doesn't care what is put on the machine. What concerns me is the KJ that runs the equipment Sun - Thurs. We have no idea what he is putting on the machine and how legal that may be. The owner expressed to us that he would like us to take the customer CDG's and rip them to the machine so he will have the music and the singer doesn't have to bring their CDG's in all the time. I am concerned about that. I'm not a law breaker and I just wanna do what is right. This is not my main source of income, just something I am doing for fun on the weekends. Cause I'll tell you this guy doesn't pay worth a crap. Think about buying several small USB jump drives to dedicate to users who want to put their songs on file. Then keep those around, labeled, but off the hard drive. Then erase them if the user doesn't come in before you need the space again. (For the anally legalistic among you, I understand the concept that you are still copying the song and that there is essentially no difference between putting it on the jump drive and putting it on the hard drive. But in my opinion you show the intent to make it temporary, and it isn't sitting there as part of something to be seized or inspected.)

Author:	Isis [ Sun Sep 16, 2007 5:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: This guy just works at a bar
The fact of the matter is that I am a law abiding citizen. There are laws against piracy and I just wanna make sure I am not putting myself or my family in jeopardy. I work in the Security industry by day and I cannot even have a traffic ticket on my record nor would I ever want to. I don't care if anyone thinks that the "piracy police" are not going to come into the club where I work on the weekends. I just need to make sure that I AM FOLLOWING THE LAW. I am not the type of person that says things will not happen to me. I have known too many people who said that and awful things have happened to them. By having an attitude that "it will never happen to me" is dangerous. And to think that you can just break the laws that you see fit is not right. The laws are there to protect people even if many believe they do not apply to them. So I just wanted to find out from a fairly educated audience what their opinion was in regards to illegal material on the machine and not being the owner of the equipment. I really didn't ask for all the other stuff. However, it is refreshing to see people who are very passionate.

Author:	Dr Fred [ Sun Sep 16, 2007 6:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: This gal just works at a bar
It sounds like your system is going to be 99% legal copies and MAYBE 1% copies from other people. That is the opposite of the ratio that is often seen in the download DJs, 1% legal 99% illegal.

Author:	Lonman [ Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:08 am ]
Post subject:	Re: This guy just works at a bar
Isis @ Sun Sep 16, 2007 3:49 pm wrote: Right now everything on the hard drive seems to be legal (Chuck and Gigi ripped everything for him). The owner has said that he doesn't care what is put on the machine. What concerns me is the KJ that runs the equipment Sun - Thurs. We have no idea what he is putting on the machine and how legal that may be. The owner expressed to us that he would like us to take the customer CDG's and rip them to the machine so he will have the music and the singer doesn't have to bring their CDG's in all the time. I am concerned about that. I'm not a law breaker and I just wanna do what is right. This is not my main source of income, just something I am doing for fun on the weekends. Cause I'll tell you this guy doesn't pay worth a crap. Loading from the customer discs would not be legal, unless they wanted to leave their discs there. There may not be busts going down at this time, but why chance it?