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BMI Hounds One of My Venues
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Author:  Sabata [ Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:06 pm ]
Post subject:  BMI Hounds One of My Venues
BMI is hounding one of my venues, claiming that because they have karaoke, they must pay an annual fee of almost $4000. I am the only entertainment they have all week besides turning on Comcast's Music Choice or turning on the jukebox. They don't want to get rid of me, but if they have to pay that much money to keep me, they are sadly going to have to let me go. I can move on to another place in no time, but I currently have a close professional relationship with the establishment, the community and the entire borough.

Anybody experienced with any of this please interject. What are the options? If I were to license with BMI (since I am also a songwriter), would that elleviate any of this? How are BMI's fee structured for each establishment. Why in this place being hounded by BMI when there are literally 11 other karaoke shows in this town (yes "town").

Any help will be appreciated.
Author:  mckyj57 [ Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BMI Hounds One of My Venues
$4000 sounds high for what I have heard it runs. Is the place huge and hugely busy?
Author:  johnny reverb [ Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BMI Hounds One of My Venues
They will negotiate, and I'm sure they're starting out on the high end. The establishment is responsible, and that would be for all musical entertainment, not just karaoke. It's based on seating, square footage, and number of times a week. Did I leave anything out?.....Trouble is there are still two more agencies to deal with.......I'm sure people on here have more information on the subject.....it's not your dance though.....the fee for karaoke itself is usually the least of the cost....I don't mind being corrected, if I'm wrong about any of this....rules change, and actually seem to vary a bit by location.....good luck.....
Author:  Sabata [ Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: BMI Hounds One of My Venues
The place is large, but karaoke is only featured in one area, closed off from the rest at about a third of the size of the place. Karaoke at this place is only one time a week, me. The room seats 120. The show is 3 hours long so I go through 40-50 songs a show. That's about 2600 songs a year. I keep a playlist from every show archived. Honestly, the bulk of their business is from food. Booze is literally around 25% of their take. And my show just happens to bring in people on a night (Tuesday) when otherwise little would happen.
Author:  mckyj57 [ Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: BMI Hounds One of My Venues
Sabata @ Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:53 am wrote:
The place is large, but karaoke is only featured in one area, closed off from the rest at about a third of the size of the place. Karaoke at this place is only one time a week, me. The room seats 120. The show is 3 hours long so I go through 40-50 songs a show. That's about 2600 songs a year. I keep a playlist from every show archived. Honestly, the bulk of their business is from food. Booze is literally around 25% of their take. And my show just happens to bring in people on a night (Tuesday) when otherwise little would happen.

Then I would have them point those things out to BMI and negotiate it down. I don't know what "large" means, but BMI shouldn't be looking to take more than 2% of gross for that night, and it should probably be more like 1.5%. That would mean if gross on that night for a year is $50,000 to $75,000 -- which is pretty good for a lot of places on a Tuesday night -- they should ask for no more than $1,000.

Of course it is pretty unusual for a place to only ever offer entertainment on Tuesday. Are you sure they aren't talking about other nights as well?
Author:  knightshow [ Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: BMI Hounds One of My Venues
they DO go by seat counts... so they're gonna be sticklers about it!
Author:  Lonman [ Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: BMI Hounds One of My Venues
Sabata @ Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:06 pm wrote:
BMI is hounding one of my venues, claiming that because they have karaoke, they must pay an annual fee of almost $4000. I am the only entertainment they have all week besides turning on Comcast's Music Choice or turning on the jukebox. They don't want to get rid of me, but if they have to pay that much money to keep me, they are sadly going to have to let me go. I can move on to another place in no time, but I currently have a close professional relationship with the establishment, the community and the entire borough.

Anybody experienced with any of this please interject. What are the options? If I were to license with BMI (since I am also a songwriter), would that elleviate any of this? How are BMI's fee structured for each establishment. Why in this place being hounded by BMI when there are literally 11 other karaoke shows in this town (yes "town").

Any help will be appreciated.


That sounds a bit high per year, unless they are going to hit them for any tv's/radios (comcast music)/dance floor/etc....
You can't register to BMI to play in venues, as a songwriter you are joining to make sure that if your songs are played anywhere, that you will get your $.02 worth per performance.  It's the bars/clubs responsibility to pay for their BMI/ASCAP fees - yes ASCAP can still hit them as well.
Here is the license, maybe you & the manager can go over it & figure out how much they should really be paying.

http://bmi.com/forms/licensing/ede.pdf
Author:  Lonman [ Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: BMI Hounds One of My Venues
Sabata @ Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:53 pm wrote:
The place is large, but karaoke is only featured in one area, closed off from the rest at about a third of the size of the place. Karaoke at this place is only one time a week, me. The room seats 120. The show is 3 hours long so I go through 40-50 songs a show. That's about 2600 songs a year. I keep a playlist from every show archived. Honestly, the bulk of their business is from food. Booze is literally around 25% of their take. And my show just happens to bring in people on a night (Tuesday) when otherwise little would happen.


The room seats 120 or the closed off section seats 120?  Our club seats about 250 (even though karaoke is only half the room) they pay approx 2650 per year - breaks down to $220 per month.  We make that back on 1 night of karaoke running 7 nights a week.
Author:  karyoker [ Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: BMI Hounds One of My Venues
Google bmi music rates They are in court with many trying to increase rates The rates are getting out if hand and they are using any tactic The court cases that are settled are not made public and part of the settlement is those sued cannot talk about it.. Hmmmmmm!!!!
Author:  karaoke for food..... [ Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: BMI Hounds One of My Venues
They are like cockroaches...I've seen it happen before. Once the money grubbing leaches get their foot in the door, next comes the union. So if they have bands as well, be forewarned. Everyone will be standing their for a handout, and it WILL come out of your pocket to in the long run. I have seen many a small club ran out of business, or stop any form of entertainment including the juke box and even the radio, over this BMI ASCAP nonsense. And that's exactly what it is....nonsense..... :no:
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