Karaoke Scene's Karaoke Forums :: Adjusting Mix for Singers

Can any pros share with me their general philosophy on adjusting the mix?

* How you adjust music level at the beginning
* How fast you move the faders
* Adjusting the mic level
* What you might tweak in the middle of a song
* Changes done during an instrumental break

mckyj57 @ Sun Aug 19, 2007 6:04 pm wrote:

My opinion is that you should leave it the F*** alone. Someone who knows how to sing and use the equipment can adjust the mix with the mic far better than the sound man. If you have a singer who hasn't got a clue, teach them. Sure you have to stand by the volume knob in case you have a whisperer or a screamer but that's it. If you have a vocoder and they're singing "Iron Man" use the effect but otherwise, trust the singer. If it's one thing I can't stand when I'm singing karaoke it's a knob twidler. My 2 cents....

mckyj57 @ Sun Aug 19, 2007 6:04 pm wrote:

Everything is setup in a general manner then gets adjusted per singer & song either volume, eq, effects, etc.

How fast do I move the faders, as fast as needed.

Adjusting the mic level, vocals a bit over the music where they can be heard.

Might tweak the music volume or vocal volume if one gets louder than the other.

Generally no changes during an instrumental break.

Of course I posted with something was looking for, which was "first few seconds of song" from Lonnie. Although I guess I was also looking for "move faders in a smooth and not-too-sudden fashion so as not to throw off the singer". I had a yoyo mixer -- in more ways than one -- last night, and it totally threw me off before I realized on all levels what was happening. The volume on the music jumped up -- and down and up and down again -- over the first 40 seconds of the song, with the vocal level doing the same thing

This can happen on occassion, but should be the exception rather than the norm. Very rarely, you get a singer that you just can't get into the mix. Usually it's a softer voice, and when you bring in as much mic as you can you still can't quite get them in there.

Then, you have to back off the music volume...I try to do it very slowly and make a change at a point in the song where it isn't so noticable.

c'mere Perry I am a knob twiddler ;-)

Then, you have to back off the music volume...I try to do it very slowly and make a change at a point in the song where it isn't so noticable.

Any good KJ/DJ or live band sound man is sitting out front behind the audience where he can see and hear everything the audience does.....To do this requires you snake your signals to/from the stage and mains....Yep, it cost a little more and requires a bit more setup, but the results are the difference tween pro and amateur.

Author:	mckyj57 [ Sun Aug 19, 2007 6:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Adjusting Mix for Singers
Can any pros share with me their general philosophy on adjusting the mix? * How you adjust music level at the beginning * How fast you move the faders * Adjusting the mic level * What you might tweak in the middle of a song * Changes done during an instrumental break

Author:	exweedfarmer [ Sun Aug 19, 2007 7:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Adjusting Mix for Singers
mckyj57 @ Sun Aug 19, 2007 6:04 pm wrote: Can any pros share with me their general philosophy on adjusting the mix? * How you adjust music level at the beginning * How fast you move the faders * Adjusting the mic level * What you might tweak in the middle of a song * Changes done during an instrumental break My opinion is that you should leave it the F*** alone. Someone who knows how to sing and use the equipment can adjust the mix with the mic far better than the sound man. If you have a singer who hasn't got a clue, teach them. Sure you have to stand by the volume knob in case you have a whisperer or a screamer but that's it. If you have a vocoder and they're singing "Iron Man" use the effect but otherwise, trust the singer. If it's one thing I can't stand when I'm singing karaoke it's a knob twidler. My 2 cents....

Author:	MorganLeFey [ Sun Aug 19, 2007 8:12 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Adjusting Mix for Singers
c'mere Perry I am a knob twiddler

Author:	karyoker [ Mon Aug 20, 2007 3:31 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Adjusting Mix for Singers
First is setting the 550 for male or female vocal. Next is setting mic gain. For a singer that holds the mic at belly button I turn the music level down. After a singer is learned EQ can be preset to a number other than by ear. One example is I have a regular that sings old country and some Johnny Cash. I cant get him to hold the 58 close so he needs bass on the mic strip. One problem with this is you forget to put it back. Average to good singers and no hollerers you can leave the compression threshold at a low number. High compression sometimes causes the problem when a singer thinks the loud passages are not high enough then they over compensate. Time permitting: On the dfx12 I put it on chorus for duets or during the chorus . Spring for old rock. small plate for slow songs. Large plate for a singer that is struggling Sometimes reverse gate for high tempo songs. Mic tecnique and knowing how to find the best spot on the stage that helps them the most cuts down on the tweaking.

Author:	johnny reverb [ Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:19 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Adjusting Mix for Singers
If a singer holds the mic too far away, many times I do nothing(don't need the feeb-back). Often times the singer is a bit timid, and wants to hide behind the music. I've increased the volume, by various methods, only to have the singer move the mic even farther away. They hear the mix, and if they ask me, why they can't hear their voice better, I tell them to hold the mic closer to their mouth. They need to learn this, if they don't realize it. Personally, when singing, I hold the mic about four or five inches away at first. This gives me some control over the volume, and I avoid touching the mic with my mouth(nasty, nasty habit, people), like the plague. A person that puts his mouth on the mic, can only decrease his volume, though I swear I've seen someone just about deep-throat a mic, trying to get some kind of effect/result....... ....it was a dude....

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Author:	Lonman [ Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:54 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Adjusting Mix for Singers
mckyj57 @ Sun Aug 19, 2007 6:04 pm wrote: Can any pros share with me their general philosophy on adjusting the mix? * How you adjust music level at the beginning * How fast you move the faders * Adjusting the mic level * What you might tweak in the middle of a song * Changes done during an instrumental break Everything is setup in a general manner then gets adjusted per singer & song either volume, eq, effects, etc. How fast do I move the faders, as fast as needed. Adjusting the mic level, vocals a bit over the music where they can be heard. Might tweak the music volume or vocal volume if one gets louder than the other. Generally no changes during an instrumental break.

Author:	Lonman [ Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:56 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Adjusting Mix for Singers
exweedfarmer @ Sun Aug 19, 2007 7:43 pm wrote: mckyj57 @ Sun Aug 19, 2007 6:04 pm wrote: Can any pros share with me their general philosophy on adjusting the mix? * How you adjust music level at the beginning * How fast you move the faders * Adjusting the mic level * What you might tweak in the middle of a song * Changes done during an instrumental break My opinion is that you should leave it the F*** alone. Someone who knows how to sing and use the equipment can adjust the mix with the mic far better than the sound man. If you have a singer who hasn't got a clue, teach them. Sure you have to stand by the volume knob in case you have a whisperer or a screamer but that's it. If you have a vocoder and they're singing "Iron Man" use the effect but otherwise, trust the singer. If it's one thing I can't stand when I'm singing karaoke it's a knob twidler. My 2 cents.... Don't agree with this at all. You can't teach someone to add more highs/mids/lows or effects to their own voice - a whisperer gets turned up a bit, a screamer is not a problem with a compressor/limiter. I adjust to make the singer sound their best, usually is done in the first few seconds of the song.

Author:	karyoker [ Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:18 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Adjusting Mix for Singers
One of the reasons I bought a snake When Im 10 feet from the singer I sometimes hear their voice live more than on the system.I cant sit on the stage and adjust vocals. The little bar we are in now has a row of tables 10 feet or less from the singer This is where some of the regulars sit I had a screecher and gave her quite a bit of bass A gal leaned over and said she needs some bass in her voice I did..Go over there and listen to the system What you hear here is her raw voice. LOL

Author:	Dennisgb [ Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:23 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Adjusting Mix for Singers
Lonman @ Mon Aug 20, 2007 1:54 pm wrote: mckyj57 @ Sun Aug 19, 2007 6:04 pm wrote: Can any pros share with me their general philosophy on adjusting the mix? * How you adjust music level at the beginning * How fast you move the faders * Adjusting the mic level * What you might tweak in the middle of a song * Changes done during an instrumental break Everything is setup in a general manner then gets adjusted per singer & song either volume, eq, effects, etc. How fast do I move the faders, as fast as needed. Adjusting the mic level, vocals a bit over the music where they can be heard. Might tweak the music volume or vocal volume if one gets louder than the other. Generally no changes during an instrumental break. Pretty much the same here. I will turn the treble down and the bass up a little bit on female singers that I don't know. Then tune the mix once they start. Most women are a bit more "trebley" than men (not all though). If a new singer is not very good, I will click in a bit more reverb. Most of the time, all I do is mix for the volume though...turn up the vocals or down the music. I like the vocals to be bit louder than the music...we want to hear the singers :D

Author:	mckyj57 [ Mon Aug 20, 2007 11:07 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Adjusting Mix for Singers
Of course I posted with something was looking for, which was "first few seconds of song" from Lonnie. Although I guess I was also looking for "move faders in a smooth and not-too-sudden fashion so as not to throw off the singer". I had a yoyo mixer -- in more ways than one -- last night, and it totally threw me off before I realized on all levels what was happening. The volume on the music jumped up -- and down and up and down again -- over the first 40 seconds of the song, with the vocal level doing the same thing. I realized that when I do shows and adjust for different singers I tend to move the faders very gradually in hopes of not affecting the singer, and wondered if that was normal. Also, when I adjust the music level I try to do it during the intro (presuming the song has one). But I was also looking for tips on this, because I am still not quite sure of the effect of effects. I am getting better at listening, but I appreciated the effects ideas from karaoker, as I pretty much have one or two settings I use and don't use others just because I don't know what is appropriate. I guess I should experiment on myself more....

Author:	Dennisgb [ Mon Aug 20, 2007 11:27 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Adjusting Mix for Singers
mckyj57 @ Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:07 pm wrote: Of course I posted with something was looking for, which was "first few seconds of song" from Lonnie. Although I guess I was also looking for "move faders in a smooth and not-too-sudden fashion so as not to throw off the singer". I had a yoyo mixer -- in more ways than one -- last night, and it totally threw me off before I realized on all levels what was happening. The volume on the music jumped up -- and down and up and down again -- over the first 40 seconds of the song, with the vocal level doing the same thing This can happen on occassion, but should be the exception rather than the norm. Very rarely, you get a singer that you just can't get into the mix. Usually it's a softer voice, and when you bring in as much mic as you can you still can't quite get them in there. Then, you have to back off the music volume...I try to do it very slowly and make a change at a point in the song where it isn't so noticable.

Author:	karyoker [ Mon Aug 20, 2007 11:27 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Adjusting Mix for Singers
Mickey a true sound man will adjust according to ear only (he has time) When doing a a karaoke show it is often an educated guess how far to adjust because you have a cute gal standing there asking if you got so&so LMAO A live karaoke show is just ball park but a good host can make everybody sound decent (most everybody) I take pride in the fact I have the most easiest systems to sing on I have sang on many including bands There is none that compares to mine FACT...

Author:	Keith02 [ Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:09 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Adjusting Mix for Singers
Hey, it's all about a good show.....that's the bottom line. I figure I need to have the gear and know how to make everyone sound as good as possible....and be able to do it on the fly. Feel free to tweek as needed/when needed....one way to insulate the singer from your adjustments is to exclude all FX from monitors....you can't do this if you are sitting behind the mains. Any good KJ/DJ or live band sound man is sitting out front behind the audience where he can see and hear everything the audience does.....To do this requires you snake your signals to/from the stage and mains....Yep, it cost a little more and requires a bit more setup, but the results are the difference tween pro and amateur.

Author:	hamsamich [ Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Adjusting Mix for Singers
jeez, I've only done about 15 small shows and I'm 100% sure on, yes, you need to twiddle the knobs at least a little bit. You can't teach everybody to sing! And no-brainers like the person not holding the mic close enough; you don't want to stop the show just to teach them! Hold class later, but for now, turn up the mic volume. I won't twiddle them on someone who obviously knows what they are doing. But someone screaming into my mics is GOING to get the Knob!

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Author:	Keith02 [ Mon Aug 20, 2007 3:16 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Adjusting Mix for Singers
Buddy, if you wuz blonde with boobies i'd scream in yer mic all night....As long as i got "The Knob", you know?

Author:	hamsamich [ Mon Aug 20, 2007 3:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Adjusting Mix for Singers
hey, I hear you love gettin' on some knob. you wuz in the navy, huh? :hi5: she's gettin the KNOB! yeah

Author:	mckyj57 [ Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:40 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Adjusting Mix for Singers
Dennisgb @ Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:27 pm wrote: This can happen on occassion, but should be the exception rather than the norm. Very rarely, you get a singer that you just can't get into the mix. Usually it's a softer voice, and when you bring in as much mic as you can you still can't quite get them in there. This particular guy has heard me sing a hundred times, and I have a strong voice and pretty good mic technique. He isn't the sharpest tool in the shed, and I think he was also working with a new mixer. I struggled because it was bad early in the song, but when the music level and mic level very suddenly went opposite directions in the second verse, it threw me off completely. Quote: Then, you have to back off the music volume...I try to do it very slowly and make a change at a point in the song where it isn't so noticable. Yes, that's why I asked about the instrumental break.

Author:	pflugerville [ Mon Aug 20, 2007 5:06 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Adjusting Mix for Singers
MorganLeFey @ Sun Aug 19, 2007 10:12 pm wrote: c'mere Perry I am a knob twiddler C'mere YOU! Vicki, i think i am officially in love with you. will you marry me when you come to the states next year?

Author:	Lonman [ Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Adjusting Mix for Singers
Dennisgb @ Mon Aug 20, 2007 11:27 am wrote: Then, you have to back off the music volume...I try to do it very slowly and make a change at a point in the song where it isn't so noticable. Why wait until a point in the song, that point may not come for a while depending on the song, get the sound adjusted, even if it may be slightly noticeable (unless it's just someone that is SO soft that the music has to come down to inaudible levels), get it done quick & it's usually good for the rest of the song.

Author:	mckyj57 [ Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:00 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Adjusting Mix for Singers
Keith02 @ Mon Aug 20, 2007 5:09 pm wrote: Any good KJ/DJ or live band sound man is sitting out front behind the audience where he can see and hear everything the audience does.....To do this requires you snake your signals to/from the stage and mains....Yep, it cost a little more and requires a bit more setup, but the results are the difference tween pro and amateur. If you have the ability in the venue, that is definitely the way to do it. Lots of times, though, small bars don't have a configuration that allows it. I am just an amateur, but I have already done a fair number of home parties that resemble ones in small bars. I find that singing a test song with a wireless mic out in the target area of the mains, along with monitoring some better singers out there periodically, gives me enough to make things sound pretty good.