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Karaoke Ettiquette for singers AND KJ's
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Author:  oneofakind864 [ Sat Jul 07, 2007 11:40 am ]
Post subject:  Karaoke Ettiquette for singers AND KJ's
I am a former KJ and now I’m professional vocalist - but I also still love Karaoke Shows. In the scope of entertaining from all aspects I've witnessed and learned some things. Here are the hot topics from both sides. EDIT...this is ONLY from MY experience which was from HUGE shows with more than 100 song requests per night. Every show is different...and as you read this PLEASE KEEP IN MIND THAT THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS TO EVERY RULE! These are by NO means a hard and fast thing to follow. Every point I make with the exception of the one(s) that a karaoke show's purpose is to make money fpr the venue, A singer should always be considerate of their KJ, and a KJ should give every singer individual attention and sound adjustment ..is debatable. None of this is meant to offend.
There are a few things you need to take into consideration as a Karaoke Singer.
A KJ's primary objective is NOT to allow YOU to sing as many times as you can. The objective is to make his employer money. This is done through ONE thing only- that is keeping a crowd that is SPENDING money - at the venue for as long as possible. This is why you will now hear "dance music" played in between rotations of many karaoke shows. So many Karaoke singers sing ballads that it can make for a dreary night if the singers aren't that great and even if they ARE terrific singers-Ballads can get OLD!  There will always be a large part of any crowd that wants to DANCE not listen to a concert.

This is my advice to anyone wanting to sing more often. PICK UPTEMPO DANCEABLE TUNES. It was made clear to me at my shows as a KJ-(by the boss) that songs that would "go over" with the crowd got rotated in faster than the 5th request to sing the same Whitney Houston song.  It also has a LOT to do with how well you sing. If you can't sing(that does NOT mean in your own opinion but in the general publics opinion) then you BETTER be entertaining! Or nothing you do is gonna get you up any faster. If you are a decent singer- look around you- who is the audience? What age are they. "Lets stay together" though a wonderful song- is NOT going to go over as well as "Hey Ya" or with a younger crowd. But by the same token Eminem isn't going to be received as well and Motown if the crowd is on the 40's to 60's. If you want to sing- then don't be just a singer. Be an ENTERTAINER. Choose songs that will make your KJ's life easier by pleasing the crowd. Always keep in mind that a karaoke show does NOT revolve around "YOU"- even if you ARE the best singer in the house. Choose you songs wisely!
I had a section about tipping here but it ticked off so many people i deleted it. Sorry!
Do NOT under any circumstances repeatedly ask your KJ "How many more????" They have a full plate. They’re coordinating the show, keeping the rotation, adjusting the sound, locating songs & queuing them, Plus MCing at the same time! They do NOT have time to baby-sit you. It will NOT make them want to call you up any faster if you continually pester them. If you’re getting ready to leave- you may politely say "We’re leaving soon- am I anytime soon or should we just go ahead and leave?” Your KJ will give you a yes of no. If it is going to take too long tell him to pull your request because you can't stay that long. DON’T whine for him to move you up. Remember the show is NOT about YOU! Sorry if that sounds harsh but it's a fact of life.

If your KJ is organized it may be a good idea for you to give him 2 or 3 songs to choose from for you(a mix of genres and tempos)- He will know his crowd and will appreciate your willingness to allow him to get you up while at the same time pleasing his audience. He may be more likely to get you up sooner if you give him a choice about what you’re willing to sing. If you do this DO NOT!!! get on stage THEN request to do 1 of the OTHER songs! You cause a delay in the show when someone could have been singing!

Most KJ's will call the current singer up and announce who is next or "on the deck" after the current singer. If you hear you are "on the deck"  Go TO the side of the stage & wait for the current singer to finish so the KJ doesn’t have to wait for you to make your grand entrance through a crowded bar while there is nothing but silence on the mic.
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Now to the KJ's. First and foremost DON’T set your level 1 way when the place is empty then not adjust the sound as people enter the venue. No Kidding I have seen many do this! Also be aware that every song is recorded at a different level. No two tracks are the same level- why would you leave your sound at the same level for all songs? That's not only detrimental to your shows- its just LAZY! Every singer wants to hear themselves- bring up the vocals in the monitors so they can hear their vocals and adjust the house for the crowd’s enjoyment. (I.E. if the singer sucks- put them deeper in the mix so the crowd can focus on the music not the vocals) The singer will be happy because they can hear what they came there to hear- themselves! And your crowd will be happy because they aren't overwhelmed by terrible vocals! The sound between the house speakers and the monitors doesn’t have to be the same. Be aware of the sound and make sure that yours is optimal. If you have bad sound- you WILL NOT get repeat customers! And if you don't get customers then you won't have a show very long.

If you are a KJ you SHOULD NOT BE SINGING!! LET ME SAY THIS AGAIN...IF YOU ARE A KJ- YOU SHOULD NOT BE SINGING!! You are there to facilitate other singers! NOT YOURSELF!  If there ARE no singers with requests THEN it is acceptable to sing to fill in the gap. Most people come to karaoke shows for one thing "To HEAR THEMSELVES sing" They are not interested in you singing! Let me repeat this...THEY’RE NOT INTERESTED IN HEARING YOU SING!!!!EDIT :I Granted at some of my shows people would come up and try hand me $10 to sing and I’d tell them" I'm not here to sing & $10 IS NOT worth it for me to tick off the people waiting their turn to sing." And YES I DO ADMIT that there WERE some times on a few occaissions that I Accepted large..make that LARGE sums of money to sing-But it was never more than 1 song!  A girl has to make a living!  I will stress this- singers guard their place in the rotation and they get pretty touchy about KJ's singing- but it's always going to be your call. But Other than those unusual instances TRUST ME- it doesn't matter HOW GREAT you can sing- if there are people waiting to sing themselves- they DON'T CARE how wonderful you are- NOR do they want to HEAR YOU AT ALL!!! NOT EVEN ONE SONG IF THERE ARE  MANY SINGERS WAITING TO SING!!!

When you enter a venue- EVERYONE becomes "the client" there are no "friends" Of course there’ll always be people you like or that are special to you- but on the stage of your show is NOT the place to show it. Friends should not come before any other paying customer. Do Not give preferential treatment to anyone!

Tell people when they hand you a song that was just sung(or that has already been submitted by several people) that they need to pick another song. PERIOD! You know that you are not going to allow 5 people to sing "Broken Wing"  in a night. TELL them & if they say that "they sing it better" than the others ...tell them that they should have gotten there sooner to request it. End of story.

Vary what you say and TRY not to lie through your teeth. Don't say "What a great performance" after EVERY singer. If they couldn't sing but really tried...say HEY that WAS an AWESOME EFFORT! Give it up for ___ she really gave that one her all! Personalize comments to each singer. If they deserve Oh My GOD...that was just____ then say that! You’ll be boring if you keep repeating yourself or doing the same old gags at every show year after year.

Do NOT infringe on a singer by singing back up or dancing around with an air guitar while they’re singing UNLESS they ask or you have gotten their OK- PRIOR to them going on stage. Remember- they waited for their chance in the spotlight and MOST don't want to share it with someone else.

BOTTOM LINE SINGERS: Respect that your KJ is there to put on a show & to make money for his employer. No matter how well you sing  you are NOT making your KJ look good to his employer if you're a water drinker unless you're eating. The karaoke show is there to make the venue money. That’s the ONLY reason the venue hired the show in the first place.  Remember that AND take into account that your KJ is trying to put together the best possible show FOR EVERYONE. The motto is true- you can't please all the people ALL the time' but you CAN please SOME of the people SOME of the time. You’re not the only person there & your personal taste doesn’t reflect the of the rest of the crowd. Please don't try to inflict your preferences on everyone else.

BOTTOM LINE KJ's: Remember that your crowd is there to be entertained and that doesn't mean your friends or yourself doing a concert. Remember that those individual singers make up your crowd and it is your responsibility to make sure that EACH and every ONE of the sounds the BEST he or she can sound. If you do not give preferential treatment, have good sound, & make each performer feel thier best qualities were highlighted- you will have a good show.
Author:  mckyj57 [ Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karaoke Ettiquette for singers AND KJ's
oneofakind864 @ Sat Jul 07, 2007 2:40 pm wrote:
There are a few things you need to take into consideration as a Karaoke Singer.
A KJ's primary objective is NOT to allow YOU to sing as many times as you can. The objective is to make his employer money. This is done through ONE thing only- that is keeping a crowd that is SPENDING money - at the venue for as long as possible. This is why you will now hear "dance music" played in between rotations of many karaoke shows. So many Karaoke singers sing ballads that it can make for a dreary night if the singers aren't that great and even if they ARE terrific singers-Ballads can get OLD!  There will always be a large part of any crowd that wants to DANCE not listen to a concert.

Observation -- karaoke-only shows seem to survive long term, the dance-fests don't. Maybe they make the bar more money while they go, but I haven't seen one of them stick around long term in my area.
Author:  oneofakind864 [ Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karaoke Ettiquette for singers AND KJ's
Regarding your observation- I completely believe that- in many places a karaoke only show would be more popular(I prefer them myself and have never run a "dance fest" as you called it (smile) What I was trying to say was that the show all depends on your crowd. Younger crowds  of college age and 20's respond better when they can dance so a mixed media show may be best for them whereas a crowd of my age group would prefer a karaoke only show and would also be more open to a lower energy show that had more ballads and easy listening music. I've been to shows from coast to coast and the "audience" is never the same at any two venues. I was just saying that the individual Kj's usually know what will be a hit at "their" show and will deliver it. That may or may not include dance breaks.  Personally when that stuff comes on- I take a restroom break-LOL. An individual singer should be respectful of the KJ trying to make his boss happy with the numbers. But the bottom line is- as long as it is profitable for the venue in whatever format- the show will be around. When it ceases to be so- they will try something else. As a singer..I just go from show to show until I find one that feels comfortable- then I keep going back time and time again. Thanks for the read and the response!
Author:  Kellyoke [ Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karaoke Ettiquette for singers AND KJ's
Have to disagree with part of your post oneofkind.  Tips to me are ONLY for a job well done.  Tips NEVER and I mean NEVER get you up before another singer and I would NEVER take money to sing if there are others waiting to sing.

I've been offered at least a couple hundred dollars to bump someone before.  Call me stupid; but it ain't gonna happen.  We (@$%&#!) and moan about our gov't people doing basically the same thing but then it's alright for us to do it??  I don't think so.

The remainder of you post I very much agree with. :)

Kelly
Author:  karyoker [ Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karaoke Ettiquette for singers AND KJ's
Very good post and some important points...

I dont sing every rotation but if the energy level is low my host can sing then I can sing  and the crowd is buzz buzz buzz The singers then put everything they have into it.

When one has a professional system then good singers come to your shows The audience is going nuts The singers are not worried about little rules and could care less if they sing every rotation. You are trying via the typical liberal way to obtain success with petty rules..

LET MY CHILDREN SING!!!
Author:  Babs [ Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karaoke Ettiquette for singers AND KJ's
I agree making money for the bar is a main objective. You have to have a crowd first before they can spend money though. Making my patrons happy and wanting to come back attributes to that. Staying loyal to my rotation is a number one priority. One thing that will drive true karaoke people away is not sticking to a rotation. I would never put someone earlier in the rotation just because I think people would like the song better. Pure suicide for me !

As for bribes how you handle that would not work for me either. I turn down all bribes unless it is $50 or more. It is a rare occasion that it will happen, so I can easily explain to people who would complain about me going out of rotation why I did it. Otherwise again it would be suicide for me to constantly go out of rotation.

I have a true karaoke crowd who would notice the slightest variation in rotation and being that my business is mostly dependent on regulars I can't disregard the fact I would lose my crowd if I played favorites with songs and bribers.

I appreciate your opinion on most of what you have said, but some venues are different than others. There isn't a pat answer for how to run a karaoke show in any one venue. They are all different.
Author:  oneofakind864 [ Sat Jul 07, 2007 2:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karaoke Ettiquette for singers AND KJ's
To  Karyoker and kellyoke ....LOL... You ARE SO right  about the good singers! I am now a professional singer and when I Do go to shows- I could care less if I sing every rotation. Most truly good singers are like that...its the not-so-good-but-don't-want-to-admit-it singers that cause most of the trouble( wink wink) They aren't as secure in their talent and "need" the crowds applause to validate themselves as singers. I was posting the hot points for singers that I have discussed over and over again with pther Kj's and I was also trying to address the hot points for KJ's that I have seen over and over with karaoke singers. I should have qualified that there ARE ALWAYS exceptions to EVERY rule. They were meant more as a very rough guideline. I also said that if the show was slow -especially if that are only 2 or 3 singers--then it is the hosts job to sing a few. That whole part about not singing when there are singers waiting applies to a show when there a lots of singers- and the host has a handful of slips...then gets up to sing. That is NOT a good thing! I caught hell from singers even when they knew I was making an extra $100 for singing a song. But when that almost doubled my paycheck for the night...you can guess what I told'em about "Fair" LMFAO!  But I guess that's up to the individual KJ...you are VERY commendable NOT to take a bribe of SEVERAL HUNDRED???WOW- girl YOU are KARAOKE SAINT!!!!!I guess I've been shafted one or ten times too many by the government- cuz I'm sure not that uncorruptable(rueful grin) I would have taken the MONEY! But my hat is OFF to you if you didn't! You sound like a PERFECT KJ0 and I am sure that those things didn't apply to you anyway! You got it going on! Thanks for the read...I had a feeling it would get some pretty heated replies...your's was very polite( wink) THANK you for the discretion!
Paula
Author:  MorganLeFey [ Sat Jul 07, 2007 2:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karaoke Ettiquette for singers AND KJ's
Paula dahlin you would be such a great politician...you are good at public speaking and ya take bribes...
I am like the others bout the bribery thing...sorry but if money talks let them shout the bar, then maybe you will be able to look your public in the eye when you have explained that mr/ms hotshot has just leapt the rotation in one single bound.

Your talents would have been wasted as a kj anyways...not hearing that voice would have been a crime
Author:  Babs [ Sat Jul 07, 2007 2:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karaoke Ettiquette for singers AND KJ's
Quote:
If you are a KJ you SHOULD NOT BE SINGING!! LET ME SAY THIS AGAIN...IF YOU ARE A KJ- YOU SHOULD NOT BE SINGING!! You are there to facilitate other singers! NOT YOURSELF!  If there ARE no singers with requests THEN it is acceptable to sing to fill in the gap. Most people come to karaoke shows for one thing "To HEAR THEMSELVES sing" They are not interested in you singing! Let me repeat this...THEY’RE NOT INTERESTED IN HEARING YOU SING!!!!If they are TRULY INTERESTED make them PAY you to sing!!! At my shows people would come up and hand me $10 to sing and I’d tell them" I'm not here to sing & $10 isn't worth it for me to tick off the people waiting their turn to sing." Now if they REALLY WANT to hear you sing & come up with "an offer to good to refuse”  like $50 or $100 then you tell the crowd that "you had the kind of request that can't be turned down "Green with zeros on it and SHOW THEM THE MONEY! That way the crowd understands that YOU honestly DID have a chance to make a substantial sum by singing 1 yourself. Other than that TRUST ME- it doesn't matter HOW GREAT you can sing- if there are people waiting to sing themselves- they DON'T CARE how wonderful you are- NOR do they want to HEAR YOU AT ALL!!! NOT EVEN ONE SONG IF THERE ARE SINGERS WAITING TO SING!!!


Again you obviously work under different conditions than I do. I agree a KJ should not sing as to give patrons the priority. But I work in the same venue 3 nights a week with basically all regulars. If I am asked to sing for an anniversary or a birthday I'm not going to tell them no unless they pay me. I've known some of these people 6 years or more and they have been loyal followers. I would feel like a huge heel.
(Sure I've been tipped to sing, but I would never ask for money.) And if I am tipped to sing I will wait until all new singers have sung and only put myself in once a rotation round, if that. I've even turned down tips to sing if I'm to busy.
Author:  karyoker [ Sat Jul 07, 2007 2:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karaoke Ettiquette for singers AND KJ's
As per another post we might be getting a gig that for this month is entertained by the best bands in the world .. The crowd will expect pro singers my host and I can provide that energy that turns a crowd on. Until we get some good singers (I want to haul my singers up there and talk them into free rooms
LMAO )


As Babs says every venue is different For the first hour we will be playing DJ for the dining crowd in the best steakhouse in the state...

That was a very good post and an oldtimer gleaned some knowledge from it But dont try to apply your rules to the big leagues.. :D
Author:  oneofakind864 [ Sat Jul 07, 2007 2:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karaoke Ettiquette for singers AND KJ's
Hey guys...I edited the post..I was NOT saying not to stick to a rotation....I was saying that if you dont- there had better be a darn good reason you aren't And way back when when i was struggling to make ends meet being paid 75 to 150 per show...shoot me- but a $50 or $100 tip was alot of money to me and I made VERY sure the crowd knew  the reaon for the departure from the rotation. I will qualify something I forgot to put in my initial post..NEW or first time singers got a higher priority over someone who had sung 3 times already. That was JUSt for MY show..but it worked. I tried to get a new singer in within 5-7 songs of them turning in a slip- then they got added to the rotatation. When I left I was making very good money and had even hosted a national karaoke TV show.

My comments regarding helping the KJ out with dance tunes were only an example. I was trying to get the singers to understand that they will get a better reception and make the KJ very happy if they tailor a song to the crowd. I had one bar owner have me say on the mike every 15 minutes that dance tunes were given priority. It was a college bar and lots of young people. They did 5000 a night in a place that was the size of 2 double wides together. When we had a night full of ballads- the crowd left and their sales went down to less than 2000. The examples I gave weren't for everyone...but for many people they will hold true. I did what I needed to do to make both my crowd AND my boss happy...and it was a NARROW THIN line. I don't think most Karaoke shows have that sort of crowd. I was in a very touristy area so there were lots of "Big spenders" I had my little crowd of regulars that followed me from place to place and i took care of them...but I didn't give preferential treatment. That brings up another thing. In my shows a "duet" was considered a "turn". I'd get all kinds of flack for allowing "Becky" to sing then 2 songs later "Andy" turned a duet in with Becky and everyone wanted to know why she got a 'turn" again so soon after she had just sung. I guess the things I am talking about apply to huge shows. As I said I was turning 13-15 singers a hour in a four hour show- that's at MOST 60 songs a night ! I would always end a show with a handful of slips that never got done. Literally I woukd get anywhere from 150 to 200 slips a night. So you can imagine how zealously those singers guarded their position in line. I haven't run shows here in San Fran but I have been to several shows and they do the same things regarding rotations, bribes, and new singers. I guess metropolitan areas are just corrupt. I'd like to say I wouldn't take the bribe if I had it to do over again...but if I were a KJ struggling to pay my bills like I was them...I would.

And- yeah Vikki...I probably WOULD make a good politician(LOL) Can't be worse than what we have...and at least I have always been honest about my bribes(wink)
Author:  Babs [ Sat Jul 07, 2007 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karaoke Ettiquette for singers AND KJ's
Quote:
Hey guys...if I could edit the dar post I would..
 LMAO

I think we've all felt that way at some point. I think your post is fine. You have a lot of valid points. I was just pointing out you need to be careful with generalizing what is good for all KJs or singers because it depends on the venue.
Author:  Babs [ Sat Jul 07, 2007 2:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karaoke Ettiquette for singers AND KJ's
Oh my garsh  LMAO You are cracking me up. I love the clever edit. I wish I would have thought of that in the past, using red and all.


Oneofakind for president  LMAO
Author:  Tinkermom [ Sat Jul 07, 2007 2:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karaoke Ettiquette for singers AND KJ's
I've been a lurker on here for a while now and just recently decided to become active but I think just about everyone on here knows karaoke etiquette. These KJs are the most knowledgeable group I've seen. The questions asked by newbies like myself are answered quickly and what one seasoned singer/KJ leaves out, another one is right on their heels to fill in the blanks. The karaokers/KJs you're wanting to reach aren't taking the time or even care to learn karaoke etiquette. I certainly appreciate your efforts. Do you have a regular place that you karaoke? You must be their reigning karaoke queen, lucky people. You are truly gifted with such a beautiful voice.

I respectfully disagree with holding up a large tip for everyone to see. Maybe there are people in your audience who can only afford to tip you $5 instead of $50. And if they're spending all their money on buying their way to the top of the rotation, then maybe they're not spending it on food and drinks and tips for the bartenders and waitresses. I'm sure it's happened while I've been waiting my turn to sing but I sure didn't know it. I'm pretty clueless where I am in the rotation anyway, but that's just me.

All I know is I love karaoke, the good, bad and ugly of it. Yes, there are always going to be those tone-deaf singers (me??) who go up there and give it their all because they love to sing too. I have performance anxiety as it is and if someone told me "awesome effort," I would walk away feeling a little bewildered, not sure if that was a compliment or an insult  :confused:

I guess my point is is that there are several opinions on what proper karaoke etiquette is. I don't like dance music between rotations and I don't appreciate a KJ singing in a long rotation. The longer I'm there, the more $$ I spend. If I'm not enjoying myself because of that KJ's particular customs and practices, I'll take my $$ and leave.

Just my :2cents:
Author:  Laura [ Sat Jul 07, 2007 3:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karaoke Ettiquette for singers AND KJ's
Some good advice and good observations in this thread!

oneofakind864 @ Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:40 pm wrote:
A KJ's primary objective is NOT to allow YOU to sing as many times as you can.


Aw.  Darn.  *just kidding*   LOL


Quote:
If your KJ is organized it may be a good idea for you to give him 2 or 3 songs to choose from for you(a mix of genres and tempos)...


I do that sometimes.  Usually I pick 1 song at a time--after I'm done singing, I think, "Let's see--what do I feel like singing next?"  But sometimes I can't decide.  Or sometimes I want to do a slow one, but I don't know whether the time is right for a slow one.  That's when I give the kj more than 1 song.  

I usually tend to prefer fast songs anyway.  But once in a while I need to take a breather and slow things down (even if I won't be singing again for another hour or so).   That reminds me of something that happened last night, so I will digress here:  

Last night I was going to sing "Everybody's Fool" by Evanescence (it's a fast song), and the guy accidentally gave me the WRONG Evanescence song--he put on "My Immortal".  Not only is that a ballad, but it's a real tear-jerker, at least for me.  I didn't correct him, 'cause I'd sung it before w/no problems, so I just thought, "Well, I'll just sing this, then."  Well, sure enough, I started crying right in the middle of the song and it took me a while to gain my composure back!  (The first time I'd sung it, that didn't happen.  I think maybe part of the problem was that this time, I wasn't prepared to sing it.)  Fortunately, the crowd last night was very supportive.  I've got an Evanescence karaoke disk that has that song on it, so maybe I need to practice it a few times to make sure I can get thru' it.
Author:  Steven Kaplan [ Sat Jul 07, 2007 3:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karaoke Ettiquette for singers AND KJ's
Quote:
If you are a KJ you SHOULD NOT BE SINGING!! LET ME SAY THIS AGAIN...IF YOU ARE A KJ- YOU SHOULD NOT BE SINGING!! You are there to facilitate other singers! NOT YOURSELF!  If there ARE no singers with requests THEN it is acceptable to sing to fill in the gap. Most people come to karaoke shows for one thing "To HEAR THEMSELVES sing" They are not interested in you singing! Let me repeat this...THEY’RE NOT INTERESTED IN HEARING YOU SING!!!!If they are TRULY INTERESTED make them PAY you to sing!!! At my shows people would come up and hand me $10 to sing and I’d tell them" I'm not here to sing & $10 isn't worth it for me to tick off the people waiting their turn to sing." Now if they REALLY WANT to hear you sing & come up with "an offer to good to refuse”  like $50 or $100 then you tell the crowd that "you had the kind of request that can't be turned down "Green with zeros on it and SHOW THEM THE MONEY! That way the crowd understands that YOU honestly DID have a chance to make a substantial sum by singing 1 yourself. Other than that TRUST ME- it doesn't matter HOW GREAT you can sing- if there are people waiting to sing themselves- they DON'T CARE how wonderful you are- NOR do they want to HEAR YOU AT ALL!!! NOT EVEN ONE SONG IF THERE ARE SINGERS WAITING TO SING!!!



Than why would such people buy into the fact that a $50 bribe was able to sway you over ?  I understand what you are saying, but what you are also saying regarding this is that

Quote:
"I will toss my own rules aside as well as a set of ethics I am emphatic about assuming *I* deem a bribe as feasible"

Whether you see this or not.

In your case this MIGHT only be somewhat ethically sound given your own set of values if you paid a chunk of that sum to your boss/ the venue, and qualified this to the audience.  Meaning making the statement that, "This is a business, I am hear to benefit all including my boss, and this will be going to the venue, not MY pocket".  After-all you agree you are there to make HIM money !  It's not about at what level YOU can be bribed !  At least not in the context of your other rules and laws regarding this area.

In my opinion, you might just as well say,  this is grey area, and if it's slow and enough want me to sing for free, I will, because realistically, you have no right making absolute statements when interjecting "But I can be bribed to toss aside my values".

I played pro lounge piano for awhile, played bars MOST of my life from early teens (with adult guardians present) and while this was a different situation than Karaoke, the only time I'd bend my rules, or was told I can, would be when my boss told me "YOU HAVE TO".  Because in my day, it was all about 1) my boss  2) the customer  (but NEVER me).  If my boss made a statement such as "This guy is gold for my establishment, when he walks in, do what he says, he's your boss, play HIS songs"..  In such situations I no longer had say in the matter.  Otherwise, if taking bribes is acceptable If I'd take a bribe for $50, I'd take a bribe for $15, because I'd have a tip jar out and playing for tips WAS in such cases acceptable,  Your aforementioned method of blending Karaoke methodology, and old-school "Money talks" doesn't blend well in the overall context given your statement about "People who want to sing DON'T CARE, or,  I'm here to make my boss money" etc... You've thrown in a grand rationalization all things considered to say "But I can be bought for an established amount"..  Reason being,  in certain places playing for pay and tips DID set up a "taking bribes is OK scenerio" as a MUSICIAN, in those days, in such an atmosphere it's HOW we did things !  Bribes were allowed, and accepted.  Karaoke is different in the sense you begin discussing all this in.  Is it right to say,  

"I absolutely won't sing because it's wrong, but for $50 in MY pocket I'll change my ethical constructs, and screw absolutes and values" ?  You are making quite a few emphatic statements about proper conduct, and jumping to "But I can be bought over" so screw my values, and the customer and venues wishes.  Unless of course, you pay a chunk of that to your boss to !  I see your $50 bribe statement as a big contradiction.

Sure money often talks, however you set up a scenerio that "I am here to benefit my boss", so unless you are going to pay him a good chunk of that money, I disagree that given your scenerio succumbing to the $50 bribe is ALWAYS acceptable.. Sometimes sure ONLY because performing is a grey area, little is carved in stone ALL the time,  but as a rule,  to say "Pay me $50, and I'll trash my values" seems wrong !
Author:  Tinkermom [ Sat Jul 07, 2007 3:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karaoke Ettiquette for singers AND KJ's
And by the way, thanks for adding a little flame to the forum.  I love to read posts that elicit so much passion. If there's one things these folks here love, it's their karaoke and they'll defend their opinions and beliefs to the end, some more politely and kindly than others. Thanks for making my bland Saturday afternoon a little more spicey.
Author:  Steven Kaplan [ Sat Jul 07, 2007 3:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karaoke Ettiquette for singers AND KJ's
Not really "flame".  There are MANY different ways !   :worship:


I was just going by the emphasis the OP put on certain aspects of proper etiquette, but than threw a huge wrench into her "these are the laws".  If OP stated she'd pay the venue owner a chunk of that bribe, I'd agree with her !   This is business after-all !   and that would concur with her statement "I'm here to make the establishment money"..  Of course she'd need to state,  "I received this, and my boss is getting it". There'd need to be a qualification.
Author:  Charmin_Gibson [ Sat Jul 07, 2007 3:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karaoke Ettiquette for singers AND KJ's
Tinkermom @ Sat Jul 07, 2007 3:12 pm wrote:
Thanks for making my bland Saturday afternoon a little more spicey.


I'm with you Tinkermom... hell, I've already popped myself a bowl of popcorn:)

Quote:
If there's one thing these folks here love, it's their karaoke and they'll defend their opinions and beliefs to the end


Very true statement. There's not too many here who will not defend their own opinion.... that's part of the reason I love this place. Not much of that monkey see- monkey do, people here stand up for themselves, and their personal values and opinions.

>going back to my popcorn now<  :wave:

Hiya Kappy... Give Cletus a hello for me, will ya?   :wink:
Author:  Tinkermom [ Sat Jul 07, 2007 3:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Karaoke Ettiquette for singers AND KJ's
I know I'm new to posting here, but Steve, I just love you. Why won't you submit a song on here? I know it's been asked of you by otheres here before but not by me so I thought I'd give it a try.

And I forget that "flame" has a different meaning in the world of internet forums. I meant to describe posts that get people a little heated and wanting to talk about it. "Flaming" is just plain mean, hateful rhetoric, right? And your reply certainly was not that.

Paula, you didn't have to delete that section of your post. You should always go with your original thought, since that's the closest to what you truly believe. Now most people who didn't have a chance to read that part aren't going to get the full effect...so I decided to copy it from an old window I still had open with that part still in there and post it here:

Quote:
"TIPS ARE ALWAYS appreciated by EVETYONE...bartenders will give you a stronger drink and faster service if you are a good tipper- but the same token any KJ who has a brain in his head- will put a good tipper up faster. I had a show in Myrtle Beach where If you got there at 7:30 for the 8:00 show and turned in your song requests- you ***MIGHT*** get to do 2 songs during the 4 hour show that went from 8-12. I was running 13-15 singers per hour which is humpin it! If a person came up and handed me a $100 - I would hold it up and say...folks we have a new singer who just gave me the right kind of request(Green with zeros on it) so they're moving to the front of the line. NOT ONE person EVER questioned that. (grin)It made the singer "not to popular" with the rest of the crowd who lacked that kind of money to throw around- but it did get them up quickly.


Was that wrong?? :angel:
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