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knightshow
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 Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 5:41 am |
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KaraokeJerry @ Thu May 28, 2009 5:51 am wrote: Talk about obsolete technology, I even use Laserdiscs when I can for variety.
(I have a triple-tray, a single-tray and an LD/CDG player in my rack.)
I can play my singers' discs when they bring 'em in.
If a disc ever gets scratchy beyond repair, I can replace it (plus I usually have an alternative version of many songs).
My sound system is great for the clubs I play. I like my set-up, my singers like it, my bar owners like it, everybody has fun. I play lasers too, except I use the converted mpeg files!
I too play customer discs, for I have a single tray dvd player.
How do you replace a disc that's no longer for sale?
We're talking computer vs disc... what's that got to do with the sound system? When I converted, I had many regulars surprised when they saw I wasn't using discs or the lasers anymore! They couldn't tell!
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JoeChartreuse
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Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 9:08 am |
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Lonman @ Wed May 27, 2009 12:59 pm wrote:
1. I have seen several disc based shows that do not know how to run their player fluently. There is usually SEVERAL seconds (and in some cases minutes) of dead air between songs while the host is trying to ge tthe disc cued up. No way a disc based show can run faster than a computer UNLESS 2 players are being used & one is always cued up for the next singer & you are crossfading songs. Otherwise there will always be down time between singers - even with a multi tray player. No getting around this.
2. Problems for computers, sure! Most of the time it's simple compatability issues or not having knowledge of the program. But there are problems with discs too ie skipping, graphic garble (which many times the computer can rip these discs to play perfectly). Cracked/scratched discs (usually due to improper storage/handling).
As far as spending tons for computer, not sure why you stated that, my computer the only thing I really spent any large dollars are on the sound & video cards - $350 for both. The computer system itself cost around $500 in a kit form in which I assembled. The players I would need to purchase would run around $800 since I still run laserdisc & Pioneer is about the only company that still makes these players for karaoke use.
3. Backed up, yes. You have a complete set of original discs to match your library or you made dupes - just curious, most do not have original sets for backups - especially on discs that aren't in productions anymore?
Just curious why didn't you like the computer route. I would switch back to discs only if I had major issues with the computer but only until I got the computer repaired or replaced.
1) Bingo- two single trays, no wait.
2) Since you're still running Laser Discs ( which amazes me- kind of a role reversal..  ) your player costs are high, but that is not the norm. I can get 2-4 players for what you laid out for PC and cards, and that means my backups are included in the same price, where full backup for you would double your costs.
If a host doesn't take care of their discs they will cause problems- same as a PC.
3) Not quite sure of what you are asking, but yes, I have burned duplicates of my discs for backup, which is completely legal for single site use, just like a software backup.
The exception would be for inexpensive sets, where I just buy two to save myself burning time ( time IS money, which can actually be saved by the dual purchase).
I'm unsure about your reference to out of production discs. I have purchased discs that were, but no longer are, in production, and backed them up.
Are you asking if I removed them from my collection for some reason? Please clarify.
Lon, as for switching back from computer to disc: It's pretty much the same as everyone else- personal choice.
The time I save not fooling with the PC or software, or problem solving, or "upgrading", and other stuff is used for marketing to bring in private events and/or a new venue. Coalating mailing packages, e-mailing, finding new places to list on the net, phone calls and follow-ups, searching restaurant/bar databases for closings and new openings, etc... All of this takes time, and marketing is a priority.
However, that's only part of it. All of the "My Kung Fu is better than your Kung Fu" arguments aside, I enjoy the feel of handling discs with skill, and it makes my hosting more enjoyable to me. I believe that happiness in my work helps my show.
_________________
"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"
" Disc based and loving it..."
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JoeChartreuse
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Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 9:14 am |
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kameragurl @ Wed May 27, 2009 1:32 pm wrote: I'd just rather not have to go through the extra expense now of using a computer for shows. I'd rather use discs. I only have 3 large books full. I do have a cheap computer just to keep the songs and the discs # for quick look-up. To each their own.
Now THAT'S a terrific idea! My master book is a monster. If I did it, I think one of those little ACER notebooks would be great, but I'd start with a cheap lappy right now...
THANKS!
_________________
"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"
" Disc based and loving it..."
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Babs
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Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 9:22 am |
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I worked manually for yrs with disc trays and now use a computer. I truly can say there is no difference in the way the show is run. The only big difference is I have less to do. I actually was bored at first because I didn't have to get discs ready. I believe if you are a seasoned KJ flipping discs becomes an art. I was very proud of how good I was at it. After not doing it for yrs now it would take some practice to go back to it. Kudos to those of you who still flip discs.  _________________ [shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown] ~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]
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JoeChartreuse
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Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 9:41 am |
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BarryKaraoke @ Wed May 27, 2009 7:46 pm wrote: JoeChartreuse wrote: Barry, I don't let new technology pass- I'm and Electronics Engineer, with an EE and an ET. I CREATE a lot of new technology. Awesome. What new technologies have you created lately? Just curious. JoeChartreuse wrote: However, there were very few HD channels available ( and STILL less than 50%). Not if you have one of those newfangled satellite dishes.  JoeChartreuse wrote: This means that most of the shows being watched were standard def (SD), which appears as an inferior picture on an HD set.
Also, by the time all channels are HD, the HD sets will have dropped in price dramatically from the initial offerings.
SO: People who ran for the bandwagon overpaaid for an HD set where MOST of the the channels produce a picture inferior to the old SD sets. IF you are watching the original over-the-air analog signal, yes...the SD picture on an SD TV is smoother and you will see less artifacts, due to the dramatically decreased resolution. But who still uses rabbit ears? Besides, an SD signal isnt somehow being degraded on an HD set. The HD resolution is simply magnifying the existing flaws. It's the same argument that people had when CD's came out of Analog recordings. If you know where to listen, you can actually hear SPLICES on Dark Side of the Moon, or studio chatter on Beatles recordings. It was always there, you just never heard it. That being said, sports fanatics have been enjoying HD broadcasts for quite some time and DVD's have been available for over a decade so your argument probably held water in 1999, but is wearing thin today. If you only watch Meet The Press however...stick with your Quasar. Cell phones are another example. I have an iPhone that I absolutely love. Could I wait 3 years and get one free? Probably, but I would miss out on those three years of enjoyment. Did I overpay by standing in line and paying full price? You probably think so. I don't for a moment and if I dropped it in the toilet today, would run out and buy a replacement that afternoon. JoeChartreuse wrote: As far as PCs for karaoke? Believe me when I tell you that within a year or two new technology will make them look like toys. THAT is when I will make changes. No need to waste my time now. So says you! Never! I will never leave the comfort of my K-WAX Cylinders. Seriously...some people (like me) are early adopters. Some, never adopt at all. The majority are somewhere in the middle. 1) Working on AFFORDABLE 3-D graphic portable sound representation- I'll keep you posted.
However in regard to HD TV, one of my OLD inventions ( actually a co-inventor) is what's making it possible for you to view shows and films made in SD on a HD set at all- the AIM circuit. The Automated Interlace Module actually oscillates the lines of resolution, creating a line doubling, tripling, or even a quadruple effect. Though it does NOT add video information as HD does, it "smooths" the picture, making it at least useable for HD. Without it, all SD shows would be virtually unviewable on an HD set. This was originally invented for the medical imaging field way back at the end of the 70's. The smoothing effect added definition to irregularities.
2) Though Satellite may bring in a higher percentage of HD channels, the preponderance of programming available in total is still in SD, though being shown on HD channels.
3) You are completely correct regarding degradation of SD on HD sets, but the perceived picture in SD is still inferior to that of an SD set because the SD set DOESN'T magnify the flaws, whether by antennae, Sat., or cable.
4) Don't even get me started on cell phones. Remember when the Razr came out and how much everyone paid for that? It's a company giveaway now.
By the way, I used to sell components to the mfrs. Though much improved in regard to bells and whistles ( only thing that seems to be missing is a built in Jacuzzi and wet bar ), technically, they are made like crap now. Your iPhone is worth about a buck, and that's only because of the display.
I'm with you on the K-Wax! Stick with your guns!
_________________
"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"
" Disc based and loving it..."
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JoeChartreuse
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Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 9:44 am |
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leopard lizard @ Wed May 27, 2009 9:22 pm wrote: BarryKaraoke @ Wed May 27, 2009 4:46 pm wrote: JoeChartreuse wrote: Barry, I don't let new technology pass- I'm and Electronics Engineer, with an EE and an ET. I CREATE a lot of new technology. Awesome. What new technologies have you created lately? Just curious. JoeChartreuse wrote: However, there were very few HD channels available ( and STILL less than 50%). Not if you have one of those newfangled satellite dishes. JoeChartreuse wrote: This means that most of the shows being watched were standard def (SD), which appears as an inferior picture on an HD set.
Also, by the time all channels are HD, the HD sets will have dropped in price dramatically from the initial offerings.
SO: People who ran for the bandwagon overpaaid for an HD set where MOST of the the channels produce a picture inferior to the old SD sets. IF you are watching the original over-the-air analog signal, yes...the SD picture on an SD TV is smoother and you will see less artifacts, due to the dramatically decreased resolution. But who still uses rabbit ears? Besides, an SD signal isnt somehow being degraded on an HD set. The HD resolution is simply magnifying the existing flaws. It's the same argument that people had when CD's came out of Analog recordings. If you know where to listen, you can actually hear SPLICES on Dark Side of the Moon, or studio chatter on Beatles recordings. It was always there, you just never heard it. That being said, sports fanatics have been enjoying HD broadcasts for quite some time and DVD's have been available for over a decade so your argument probably held water in 1999, but is wearing thin today. If you only watch Meet The Press however...stick with your Quasar. Cell phones are another example. I have an iPhone that I absolutely love. Could I wait 3 years and get one free? Probably, but I would miss out on those three years of enjoyment. Did I overpay by standing in line and paying full price? You probably think so. I don't for a moment and if I dropped it in the toilet today, would run out and buy a replacement that afternoon. JoeChartreuse wrote: As far as PCs for karaoke? Believe me when I tell you that within a year or two new technology will make them look like toys. THAT is when I will make changes. No need to waste my time now. So says you! Never! I will never leave the comfort of my K-WAX Cylinders. Seriously...some people (like me) are early adopters. Some, never adopt at all. The majority are somewhere in the middle. I jumped right into buying a Sony Betamax because I was sure it was the better technology. Now the VHS is a dinosaur. I think Joes is just holding out for the Blue Ray of karaoke machines. Me to. You are very close. Unfortunately, the same thing is happening right now that went on between Beta and VHS. It'll take a few years to sort out.
_________________
"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"
" Disc based and loving it..."
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JoeChartreuse
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Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 9:46 am |
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KaraokeJerry @ Thu May 28, 2009 6:51 am wrote: I use all discs. I don't waste time between singers, everything is queued up nicely well in advance. My rotation moves, usually 6-7 singers every half-hour.
Talk about obsolete technology, I even use Laserdiscs when I can for variety.
(I have a triple-tray, a single-tray and an LD/CDG player in my rack.)
I can play my singers' discs when they bring 'em in.
If a disc ever gets scratchy beyond repair, I can replace it (plus I usually have an alternative version of many songs).
My sound system is great for the clubs I play. I like my set-up, my singers like it, my bar owners like it, everybody has fun.
.....And that says it all. Thanks, Jerry!
_________________
"No Contests, No Divas, Just A Good Time!"
" Disc based and loving it..."
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karaoke koyote
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Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 10:14 am |
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Micky @ Wed May 27, 2009 5:43 pm wrote: karaoke koyote @ Wed May 27, 2009 8:38 pm wrote: jr2423 @ Wed May 20, 2009 12:55 pm wrote: Ok, I can see I was confused. Since we were originally speaking of hosting with computer vs. Disc and I mentioned the tedious process of ripping my library so I could start hosting that way, I assumed that the codec was one for CDGs.
However, this does bring to mind yet another question (maybe someone might want to move this to its own thread). I recently had someone rip my DJ library for me. He used windows media player and ripped the library in wma lossless format. Having the library this way is good except it takes a lot more HD space. For my library that currently equates to almost 500 GB. This doesn't give me a lot of room to grow without transferring all to a larger HD. I will maintain my library in Lossless format for backup purposes, however I'd like to convert the wma to mp3; at about 192K as recommended.
So my question now is, is Lame strictly for ripping or, does Lame have the capability to convert my library from WMA lossless to mp3 @192K as a batch? (all at once from one HD to another) Or do I re-rip the discs to the smaller format? Sounds like you're making this way more complicated than it is. Why don't you just get a 1 terra byte Seagate External drive for $149.99 and use that? As far as a back up goes, just cut and past the file with all your music in it, done. If you're using a standard USB 2.1 connection it may take a while. If you're using fire wire it will take considerable less time. With that much music, you should have a fire wire connection anyway. Are you sure firewire is really faster  For best, eSata is the way to go I'm talking about external harddrives not internal, which don't use eSata cable.
For external harddrives, firewire is faster. Most folks aren't going to be taking their labtops apart to plug an external harddrive to their motherboard.
_________________
Good music, good friends, howling good times!
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Micky
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Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 2:07 pm |
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Location: Montreal, Canada
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I'm also talking about external drive USB II is 480 mbps as oppose to 400 mbps for the old firewire so I wanted to make certain you were not talking about the old USB 1.1 And, many external drives now have the eSata connection and the latest firewire at 800 eSata is still the way to go 
http://www.wdc.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=600
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kameragurl
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Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 8:05 pm |
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knightshow @ Thu May 28, 2009 7:36 am wrote: ripman8 @ Wed May 27, 2009 1:50 pm wrote: how much would a triple player or two players cost? Less than $220?! Sheesh, IF you can find a good player nowadays. The karaoke disc players available if you had to replace one are either unrelieable new or used and you are taking your chances. Or you're buying the Pioneer v555 which is the only professional player on the market for purchase I trust to last! How about this. myself and my friend have run bands off what we have.
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kameragurl
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Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 8:08 pm |
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Who started karaoke on computers anyway?
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karyoker
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Posted: Thu May 28, 2009 8:56 pm |
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Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 3:43 pm
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Quote: Who started karaoke on computers anyway
Cavs with the player that would play cd's or mp3+mcg, encoder for ripping and decoder for burning. Original cost $150... Then the cdg plugin for Winamp came along and the rest is history.
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kameragurl
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Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 6:19 am |
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karyoker @ Thu May 28, 2009 10:56 pm wrote: Quote: Who started karaoke on computers anyway Cavs with the player that would play cd's or mp3+mcg, encoder for ripping and decoder for burning. Original cost $150... Then the cdg plugin for Winamp came along and the rest is history. I'm a little bit of a d.a. Manus are manufacturers. What are cavs? 
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karyoker
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Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 7:04 am |
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Quote: I'm a little bit of a d.a. Manus are manufacturers. What are cavs? Embarassed
I was playing with this 10-12 years ago. When I started digital karaoke there was only Cavs and their software. First was the the PE player. The SP player came out later has more features. It only took them 8 years to have the capability of 2 screens. I was ripping the new little cd's 6 months after they were being produced.And had to type in every name and title. During that time there were no forums to tell you how to do it. It was trial and error.
I have a fondness for CAVS as they were the ones who got me started and in those first years paid for the system I have now.
cavs
After ripping you had mp3 and mcg files. One could then put several songs on 1 cd. Here is a photo of some original backup. They are still usable but you have to convert the mcg to cdg.
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karaoke koyote
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Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 8:10 am |
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Micky @ Thu May 28, 2009 2:07 pm wrote: I'm also talking about external drive USB II is 480 mbps as oppose to 400 mbps for the old firewire so I wanted to make certain you were not talking about the old USB 1.1 And, many external drives now have the eSata connection and the latest firewire at 800 eSata is still the way to go http://www.wdc.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=600Not bad! Haven't seen too many laptops with an eSata port though. However, I did see an express card adaptor online for $60 bucks.
That and the drive have a $250 price tag. I think firewire is still more prevelant... and less expensive, although that will probable change in the near future, which will lower the price.
Either way will get the job done far quicker than standard 2.O USB, which was the original point.
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Good music, good friends, howling good times!
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Lonman
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Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 10:30 am |
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kameragurl @ Thu May 28, 2009 9:05 pm wrote: knightshow @ Thu May 28, 2009 7:36 am wrote: ripman8 @ Wed May 27, 2009 1:50 pm wrote: how much would a triple player or two players cost? Less than $220?! Sheesh, IF you can find a good player nowadays. The karaoke disc players available if you had to replace one are either unrelieable new or used and you are taking your chances. Or you're buying the Pioneer v555 which is the only professional player on the market for purchase I trust to last! How about this. myself and my friend have run bands off what we have. What does THAT have to do with running a show off of computer? I can run a full band with my equipment as well including micing up a full band including mic'ing up a ful 5 piece drum kit & cymbals, bass, guitars, & 4 vocals.
Absolutely nothing to do with running players or computers..... _________________ LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!
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kameragurl
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Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 10:56 am |
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Just pitching something out there. We did it for indy label festivals in Nashville.
Ok I will stick to the subject. No biggy. Don't have a cow.
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Lonman
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Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 1:51 pm |
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kameragurl @ Fri May 29, 2009 11:56 am wrote: Just pitching something out there. We did it for indy label festivals in Nashville.
Ok I will stick to the subject. No biggy. Don't have a cow.
But it didn't even have one thing to do with what you quoted? _________________ LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!
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Micky
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Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 2:07 pm |
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karaoke koyote @ Fri May 29, 2009 11:10 am wrote: Micky @ Thu May 28, 2009 2:07 pm wrote: I'm also talking about external drive USB II is 480 mbps as oppose to 400 mbps for the old firewire so I wanted to make certain you were not talking about the old USB 1.1 And, many external drives now have the eSata connection and the latest firewire at 800 eSata is still the way to go http://www.wdc.com/en/products/Products.asp?DriveID=600Not bad! Haven't seen too many laptops with an eSata port though. However, I did see an express card adaptor online for $60 bucks. That and the drive have a $250 price tag. I think firewire is still more prevelant... and less expensive, although that will probable change in the near future, which will lower the price. Either way will get the job done far quicker than standard 2.O USB, which was the original point. I agree with you, I would still prefer firewire over usb and I do believe price will drop on eSATA You can get a WD 1T with all options, USB, Firewire800 & eSATA for $179,00 at Costco Canada cable included! The beauty of eSATA is the speed, exact same speed (3GB/s) of an internal SataII drive, that's pretty cool!! Just imagine how fast you can copy/paste your entire music collection for back up
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DannyG2006
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Posted: Fri May 29, 2009 2:11 pm |
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karyoker @ Thu May 28, 2009 11:56 pm wrote: Quote: Who started karaoke on computers anyway Cavs with the player that would play cd's or mp3+mcg, encoder for ripping and decoder for burning. Original cost $150... Then the cdg plugin for Winamp came along and the rest is history. Wrong. Truicerasoft was the first out with wincdg and the MP3+G format. Cavs came after.
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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.
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