Karaoke Forums

Babs, I just love laying at your feet.    LMAO

You get a puppy treat for that one

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Look at our avitars side by side.

Yikes! - I'm the puppy treat.  LMAO

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Whew! Finally got my computer returned from the disabled list so I could get back to reading the forums.

Lots of points to agree with in this thread... most importantly, stay consistant doing what works for ya'.

From a singer's standpoint, I can't imagine wanting to stay at a show that would let a specific group of people go up when they want to, even if it's a "different" name on the slip each time they come up. Just seems a little frustating to have to watch someone sing 3 times in the same rotation, whether in a group or by themselves, before I get my one chance. That's just me, though. Five separate tables of four people are still just as important as one group of twenty. They're probably spending just as much money as the big group when you add those five tables of four together.

I'm with the theory of one stage appearance per rotation, whether you're solo or in a group, when I run my show. One of the reasons is that people are going to occasionally complain no matter how you run it, however, it seems SO much easier to defend a fair rotation to an annoyed customer, as opposed to "Why has that person been up three times and I haven't been up YET?". You have to put more work into keeping a rotation ultra-fair, but I still get a good warm, fuzzy feeling at the end of the night knowing that nobody sang twice in front of anyone else, and everyone was treated equally no matter how big their group was, or how much they spent.

I look at it more as "playing fair" than "playing God". Just my opinion, and like everyone else is saying, do what works best for you. Alrighty, off to bed before the sun rises .

Exactly why singer/audience perspective plays a part in my decision & You elaborated on it.  While 'technically' if (working with my 6 group) these 6 people sang solo songs, it would be 6 individual singers - no problem.  If these people only sing as a group & sign up 6 names in different order to make the first name different 6 times, but has the rest of the names on the slip as well - I consider this 1 entity - regardless of order of the names listed on the slip.  As you said it would be pretty frustrating to the rest of the singing audience to see a group get up several different times before their 1 turn JUST because they write their slips up with the names in different order to get up 6 different times before.

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There are several points to this.    

First and formost being.   What makes your table with 6 individual singers putting one name per slip, any different than 6 singers putting all of the names on a slip?    I can think of no good reason.    Is everyone paying for drinks.    Why should I discriminate against certain singers?    What right do I have to select who sings with who?    How is letting 6 in a group sing together, playing favorites?    I only call out one name when they are done singing.    They are not singing any more than any other singer.    It may look like it, but they are not.    They may be thinking, the same thing about your table.    To them it looks like your table is singing too much.    

6 individual singers sitting at table "A".    Each turn in a slip with one name on it.   Drinking 6 individual drinks.

6 individuals sitting at table "B".    Turn in 6 slips with 6 names on them.   Drinking 6 individual drinks.

6 individuals sitting at different chairs around the bar, all turn in slips with one name.   Drinking 6 individual drinks.

18 singers all paying for drinks.     All singing one time, in the rotation.    I fail to see the unfairness.    


I will normally take table "B" and make two or three piles out of all of the slips.  Using 3 of the singers names, one on each slip.    This takes the group size down to 3.   I will spread them out between the rest of the singers, so that they will sing about every 5th song.    I have never had a complaint from any group.    

In actuality, if anything I am screwing them by limiting their slips to 3 piles, instead of 6.    But 99% of the time there will only be a few in the group that are really singers.      The rest are just trying to have some fun.

I am well aware of how it may look to certain "complainers."    But I assure you that everyone is only singing once, in every rotation.    Just pretend that they are individual singers, because they are.   Other singers perspective is just that.   Something they think is happening, when in fact, it is not.      There will always be a few cry babies in a crowd.   Too bad.    I do not play favorites.   I do not discriminate against groups or individuals.    I do not skip anyone.    I do not play God and tell people who they can sing with.    I do not penalize people for singing a duet.

Every "body" in the bar comes attached to a wallet.    That wallet opens to pay your wage.

In my venue it works to do it more like Bigdog does because I don't get a lot
of group singers. If I have a duet one person loses their turn unless it is a
unbelievably busy night. If it gets crazy busy a duet counts for both singers.( this is rare and I make an announcement so  everyone understands what is happening) My
people know how I do it and don't have a problem with it.

If I have group singers usually only 1 or 2 of them will sing on their own anyway, so I have a spot for the group in the rotation and a spot for the singers who sing seperately. I have never had a big group (5 or more people) ever all want to sing a song by themselves. Usually the reason they are singing in a group is because they are to chicken to sing by themselves. This is where venues differ. If you have a venue where you have lots of people wanting to sing in a group and everyone in that group wants to sing seperate it only makes sense to make it count as a turn.

So I can definately see why Lon does it one way and Bigdog another way. There are reasons to do it both ways. No one is wrong here.  :hug:

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No this is not unfair unless you have 10 tables doing it and other singers never get a chance to sing because the group singers a monopolizing the mic. In your venue it doesn't cause a problem, but in others it might.

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Because 6 different individuals are singing 6 individually different times.  If they are sticking their 6 names on 1 slip - 6 different times in different order - it's still the same group, regardless of what the slip lists.  This group would be getting up 6 times making it look like to the other singers waiting for their 1 turn that these people are getting up several times in the rotation (which they are) while they are waiting for their 1 turn.  If this is the only way the group signs up to sing - AS A GROUP - then they will be considered 1 singer ie 1 entity!



Letting 6 in a group is not playing favorites, letting the same group sing 6 different times in 1 rotation is not fair to everyone else.



That's where we differ.  You don't see it as unfair, I do.  I am willing to bet that the majority of singers sitting in a club waiting for their turn would as well seeing 1 group (the same group) getting up 6 times before their spot.



This is MORE than generous, something I still would not do, but this helps.



Again, I beg to differ.  They are NOT 6 individual singers.  They are acting as 1 group, signing up the same 6 names=1 entity.



Me neither!



Neither do I, a group has the right to sing as much as anyone else.



Not sure where this quip came from.



Same here.



If the crowd understands the policies in place, no one is being penalized.

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Oooooh good point Lon. I only let the group sing as a group once, but do let
the individual singers sing too because usually only 1 or 2 of the group would sing alone anyway.
The reason I don't let them sing as a group everytime is for just the reason you said the same people would appear to be up 6 times in a row. That would cause problems for me. I still think if Bigdog is doing it his way and doesn't have problems with it, it isn't necessarily wrong. I'm picturing him doing smaller audiences where this isn't a problem or maybe venues that people don't sing in groups a lot. He may have people who sing on their own most of the time.
What people spend in the bar shouldn't matter. I don't let anyone sing more because they spend more money.
Sorry, but even if you are buying everyone's drinks all night I'm not letting you be the only singer. You have to follow the rules like everyone else. When I do bigger venues some people put in slips and never sing. There just isn't enough time. That is when a group would count as a turn for everyone. Sure these people are buying drinks, but you can't fit everyone in even using this method.

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I have said it many times. I just have to say it again! I have a lot of respect for all of you who are Kj's!  I can tell you put a lot into your work.  I would much rather just be on stage singing! !--Mike

Thanks Mike - you're a doll.  :hug:

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Sure thing!  I think getting on stage and singing is the easy part!  I am a real people person, but I dont think I would really like to do the Kj's job!

I remember when I was just a singer at karaoke. I thought it looked like so much fun. I'll tell you there are nights when it is just an act because I'm ready to strangle
some annoying person.  LMAO I try to remember it beats most jobs and I do enjoy
most people. I never imagined it being as hard as it is sometimes. I'm sure you have those days teaching too. Some days it is very rewarding, other times you wonder why you bother.  :D

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I can understand what you mean completely. There are days you would just like  to pull the cover over your head and go back to sleep! But I don't think I would be happy doing anything else. I am sure you feel the same way!

Funny thing on that as well, many people that put up duets because they 'can't sing alone' get someone else to sing with them.  Well if the rule is in place that the other person may lose their regular spot, chances are they will back out of the duet as they really want to sing their solo song in the first place.  I've had many of these people start singing by themselves & are now quite comfortable singing without having to sing with someone else.  So it can be a help to some singers as well.

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Very true - on a busy night people don't want to lose their turn to a duet, so they end up singing alone.

I have a lot of people ask me to help them because they aren't sure they know the song well enough or are just to scared to do it alone. This way so & so doesn't lose their turn. I actually like if I help better because I am there for them not to show them up. Most of the time I'll either sing with them, without my mic on or just put my voice in the monitor loud enough to guide them. I hate when someone comes to help and trys to sing over the top of the person. Help means help not take over.  :D

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hey, if just helping someone while they do their song... that's truly not a duet... they can stand next to them and sing "OFF MIC". I have no trouble with that at all!

But the temptation is there to just pass the mic back and forth, so to me, if they do that, then the person still loses their "regular" turn, or at least are warned by me the next time it will happen.

Dog, I feel your pain a bit, but I can tell you that the "crybabies" you talk about are the ones that will go to management and at the very least make your show life difficult.

I'm all for everyone having fun. But those six people in your recent example are up there SIX times... no matter how you slice and dice it, they're up there SIX times to everyone else's "ONE"... Six times of being in the spotlight. To everyone elses "ONE". Six times of being ON MIC... to everyone else's ONE.

This isn't a penalization... sheesh it's FAIR this way!

The funny thing is I usually only use 3 mics. If a group gets up
to sing that has 6 people in it your only going to hear 3 of them anyway.  LMAO
Half the time I'm lucky if I can get one of them to actually sing in the mic.
Most of them are singing in a group because they don't want to sing alone, someone might hear them.  LMAO

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