Karaoke Forums

I am way for the ability to be able to comment privately to the poster. As in a band when one of the vocalists comes in off, or really messes up, I don't walk up to the mike and tell the whole audience. Given enough rope, and having taught singers to sing - better a lot better, I can get pretty in depth and just as an author who has written books and cringned as my editor had a red pen field day, someone who is very serious into music can really help a singer who wants to get better.

On the other hand, having to post things which are a little embarassing on a song for the whole world to read, is not a joy to do. On one song I posted, because it was a mix from an old tape, I kept gettting this shrill hiss, which I could not seem to clean up. A private post, saying, hey mate, put it up on an equ and strip freq 7000, and you will grab it, or put it up on cool edit and here's how you wipe 9000 khz up privately would have been much better.

So, I for one would like to have the luxury of privately whispering to a user, hey, you really were flat on most of that IF they care whether they sing on pitch or not. But when it goes open, then everyone gets all hurt (some do) and I ruin the soft fluffy cloud of 10s which exits and am accused of ruining a happy happy joy joy place.

So for the record, let me state something here. Nothing is quite as sure as change. And more so, nothing is quite as sure as ego. And even more so if you have a singer who has been singing a long time and everyone has ooohed and aaaahed about their singing, and someone comes along and says nyet - some will founce off in a huff - because let's tell it like it is. Some people CANNOT take criticism. Even well meant criticism.

So Phil. Good Idea. I still vote for a a "Fluff it Good" button kind of saying, look, like a woman who comes out in a dress which makes her look really bad and says "do you like it?" Well, are you looking to date her, marry her, have intimate late night exchanges with her, what are you going to say. When Grandma Emma shows you her poetry, writing, new song, recording, and tearfully says I did this for Buck (old dog buried behind the garage) and then painfully does a rendition of Flash Dance which makes the new dog head for the cellar, what is appropriate?

(by the way I am passing two stereo kidney stones at the moment, so am in a rare moment of pain and honesty)

Grandma Emma has been singing at the church for 60 years. Kinda like one of our old band members wives who performed at mega church events and was god awful flat and even God and his angels are not tone deaf, and belted out a song with tears streaming down her eyes to thundering applause.

So, we all have to learn to live together yes. Some of us who listen to every hiss and pop, balance, freq, vocal breath control, pitch, emotion, enunciation, energy of performance - how can I put it - we are obsessed.
Some of us _ sometimes get up at 5 am start working on music and at midnight are still on the 37th mix of something with windows open all over our screen of music downloads, mixers, listening to someones sub, and are about as hard core as Mick Jagger or David Bowie or Alanis.

Guess what? For us, this is fun. All this precision and perfection and trying to wring out the absolute ultimate performance of the voice you have for years. For others, like an Agatha Christe this is a nightmare, I mean the picky studio stuff. They want to crank up the karaoke box, take a solid shot of JD, and head for the stage, with all their friends exceeding wasted having as good a time as some mariner getting ready to head out to sea on his last tankard of rum. So cool.

Hey, I know there are some could be mega superstar singers right here in this place. And there are a few with some coaching and work, could move right out there with some band and become the next "whoever" platinum single.

So, I have to kind of pull the reigns on the Pygmalian (sp?) in me, not go into the My Fair Lady vowel run, and resist that urge to reach and tweak the knob.

I will close with a story. Brief. I promise. Guy dies. Goes to this place. Like a casino. Every slot, he wins. Surrounded by beautiful women (or men) depending on your taste and gender bender, everyone laughs at his jokes, he is right about everyone thinks he is right about everything - d*mn profound. Has tons of money - well you get the picture right.

For about five years, this is awesome. H*ll, he even does Karaoke. And every song is a 10. Doesn't matter if he hops on one leg and blows his nose, the crowd thunders in approval.

Finally, he turns tot the suited man next to him and says. Ya know. This really isn't all that fun. I thought heaven would be different.

"Who said this was heaven," the man said.

jvj

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There are no accidents in a perfect world   - Blondie

Ok... but, again, my problem... is there HONESTLY, anyone PERFECT here?! Really, now, lets me honest.. the ONLY "perfect" ones I ever hear, turn out to be fakers!! I don't get THAT rank.... i really don't. i mean, i am the ONLY one that could ever ACHEIVE it! Lol:) hehehe:) ANyways.. techinically, everything above average.. is.. well, ABOVE average! so, so make another category, above THAT?! Same thing with less than average.. that is OBVIOUS... why put poor there?


But, my opinions are silly.

Ignore me:)

I think, it would make ranking a lot simpler, yes. It would cut out some of the more extreme rankings. I like the descriptions in your () paren's best.

Of course, some folks will still yell and scream when they submit Granny Grump's yodelling aria and someone ranks it 'less than average', but that's life.

I think it's a good idea, Phill.

No, I agree with you, Gilly....why does perfect and poor need to be there?

If no one is perfect.....then there should not be a "Perfect Rank".

I like the idea of Above Average, Average, and Below Average....

Or even some other words.......Like

Above
Middle
Below

That way....no one is comparing ranks. I think you are above whatever my standards are. I think you are in the middle of what my standards are....and I think you are below what my standards area.

Then, the subjective part will come in, and no one can argue because there is nothing to base the ranks on.

If I want to give an "above" basing it on no system at all, what is anyone to say?

It will be based on what You think, and not what some ranking system thinks (ie when you go with the 1 - 5 good, great, etc. etc.

What do you think of that?

I don't think your opinions are 'silly' and I ain't gonna ignore ya

As for 'perfect'... yeah... I HAVE heard 'perfect' performances on here, and by 'perfect', I mean that I can't think of a single thing that person could do to improve on it. Your sub of 'Down So Long' was an example of perfection to me, and that AINT FLUFF!! If there were any 'flaws' in that sub, you covered them so well that they were inconsequential. Heck, I think I even said 'perfect' in your comment box.

Now granted, a hard-core classically trained operatic vocal instructor might come along and start picking it apart, but THAT would just be 'nit-picking'. It's not meant to be a highly technical piece, it's meant (going strictly by the genre of the song) to be ENTERTAINMENT, and it is!

If you want to know it (and I'm not jumping on you Gilly, just making a point) I've heard 'technically correct' classical pieces that I didn't find 'entertaining' at all. So yes, there will be submissions that some of us will hear as 'perfect', but perfection will always be subjective because it's based on the eye (or ear) of the beholder.

I agree with you. I am perfect...


oh, wait, i am in reality here...



I agree, maybe there ARE some perfect pieces, to SOME people.. but that is SO subjective! The rating of "perfect" is SUCH a narrow line... i mean, who is to say WHAT is perfect and what isn't? (like, I didn't think that song of mine was anywhere NEAR deserving of such a rate) I think, by simply saying" above average" you have such a broader range to choose from, and interpret yourself, based on critiques, or comments.... I just think perfect is such a PERSONAL thing... i never agree with ANYONE.!!

if i was to choose a ranking system then yes i agree with gilly, the numbers mean naff all...but as long as people gave reasons and done in a THOUGHTFUL manner for the below average rank, it could work...and probably wouldnt see people out the door.

but the more i see the in your face critique me in the showcase, forum etc just really does make me wish i could be away from it...so have a seperate section

and the more i am thinking about it the more the idea appeals to me, because i know when i go then to the showcase i don't feel pressured, and will then give me some more incentive to start commenting because i know the people there are the ones that are happy i am listening and leaving a few kind words.

so yes i am saying seperate showcase for critique and a part of the forum dedicated to honest critique what people cant fit in 400 letters.

would that even be possible? i don't know but in theory to me it may solve some issues and bring back some people, and perhaps stop others from going.

!!



heheh Well yeah, it IS a personal thing... but only being given three choices, for example, I would feel really silly if folks were ranking MY subs (which aren't nearly as good as some folks on here) as 'above average' right alongside the best subs! Now of course, I might be flattering myself and people would never rank me above 'average', but to me that's just not *enough* range to work with...

But whatever Phill decides to do, I'll be happy with

You have a point Gilly. Of course I must comment, on very rare occasions I have done a song - usually original perfect (for me). I mean the limit of what my voice can do and my abilities. Sometimes this is on stage, and I will think, I will never do it that well again in this lifetime. But let me emphasize the word, RARE. Nothing I have posted yet, even with my healthy dose of confidence, is world class perfect.

Course we can get all philosophical and say, well, what is music all about anyway? For me it boils down to getting across emotion and feeling from the singer to the listener. If your listener breaks down in tears or radiates some type of euphoric aura, then whatever the techs, you've done a 10.

And of course you could add a new abysmal rating -1 for painful.
Kind of like a comedy movie which has the classic "outrageously funny" and you watch and wince.

Excellent is a pretty good concept - Works for the military who are not exactly liberal with praise or Bill and Ted's excellent adventure.

Radical - extreme - far out - out of sight - very nice -
made me cry - made my dog cry - made the neighbor animals jump the fences and leave the area -

how about Fun - Fluff plus, groovy, "a taste", flicked my bic, rocked,
cosmic, heart rending, mind bending, unending - so bad my sound driver erred out and my Os shut down.

anyway - Phil you have a tough job.

good luck.

jvj

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There are no accidents in a perfect world   - Blondie

Okay, here ya go...

5 - Perfect (not activated, but visible will give a 4)
4 - Above Average
3 - Average
2 - Below Average
1 - Poor (not activated, but visible will give a score of 2)

Ha,HA!

Maybe I'll use it, maybe I won't.

Then again, Maybe I'll just modify the current rank system divide all ranks by two (Which is what I have do anyway)

Then remove the highest and the lowest rank. Add in a half rank for each additional submission. Divide all ranks by the number of total submissions by that user. Then take the average of all submissions and create a sliding scale to determine the new rank for each submission. - No nevermind seems like to much work as it is!!!

PHiLL

while your watching phil...how about seperating the critique completely a seperate showcase and part of the forum especially for ranking and critique, of course let people use both cause not everyone use critique for all their subs...but at least if the sections are completely seperate...it will cut down on some of the problems.

and then perhaps have a vote on what ranking system to use...by those that use it.

OL!!

Just don't ask ME to code it for ya
As hubby said, you've got your work cut out for you!! We do appreciate ya.

my husband suggests the following ranking system...




Painful

Less painful.


That is how HE does it, when he listens to us all:)

falls about laughing...gilly your hubby sounds class olol

ROTFL!!!

good one Gilly

Finally!!!....a category All about how i sing.......PAINFUL....for the dog, for my kids, who fall OFF the couch laughing.....and ya think i don't get critiqed!! ...i can at LEAST put the dog outside!!.....the kids? dangit....they have HOUSE keys!! ....

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While I work on the ranking...

Check out the changes to singer's showcase song submit page.

Test it and let me know. I think I worked out the kinks but then again ???



PHiLL

well they can't come soon enough for me, nice one phil! about bloody time ol

Just a few stray thoughts before we in a hurry modifies the experience in a significant manner without careful considerations...

I think 5 different ratings are appropriate. If the number is reduced even further then the idea goes away. There will be no value in the rating whatsoever when someone that is flat a few places get the same rating as someone that is significantly of pitch the entire song.

Of course if you want the ratings removed altogether that might be a way to accomplish the goal. Perhaps the type of ratings should mainly be decided by the ones willing to let themselves be rated????

If anything I would go the opposite way and suggest people to rate a song in the following categories: pitch 0-100%, timing, diction, emotion, recording and mixing. The overall rating would then be calculated based on a weighted average of these. At least this would guide people and help them improve.

Secondly, I would strongly advice against separating the site between us and them... Separating the showcase and forum for the raters and the non-raters to me is akin to basically having two web sites. Afterall it is called singers showcase, not raters showcase, or just for fun showcase.

I hope I didn't break my own principle and post a novel.

Morten