Karaoke Forums

CHARTBUSTER CAVS SUPER CD+G Essentials 1-6 set for sale?
Going very cheap... lmao!

I bid $10.00 USD..

And that's copyright law.. not trademark law.

So is your public domain Irish and Gospel discs you sell on your website a new product you produced or just leftover inventory you purchased under a "first sale doctrine" and are reselling?

Well, you're not being completely honest because it actually takes only 1 to offer to settle and the other to accept or reject the offer. And yes, I'm pretty sure that there have been cases where you've settled because you were fearful of losing. The most recent would have been EMI where I think they scared the bejesus out of you. And I think there have been cases against KJ's where you've allowed them to go with no fear of future suits. One has only to read the dismissal records and pay close attention to whether the case was "voluntarily dismissed with prejudice" or without prejudice to make a pretty darn good (and educated) guess.

Your plans to sue on the CB trademark displays your interest in "gaining remuneration" for something that not only they didn't pay for, but Tennessee Production Center didn't pay licensing fees for it's creation in the first place, and you certainly didn't create it, Piracy Recovery didn't create it and Digitrax didn't create it either.

Sounds exactly like you're renting stolen cars.

And I believe this is your bluff. If it weren't, there would never have been a single judgement against you (as in Oregon) and every case would have been a slam dunk. So it's "underpinnings" aren't as "solid and well-founded" as you'd like for everyone to believe.

It tells me that you are not being truthful:
(1) Sound Choice is not "still here." It's toast, gone, kaput.
(2) Chartbuster is not "still here" either. It was "roasted and toasted" in 2012.
(3) PEP is a new incarnation.

But, I can tell you this: I've outlasted them both... and I'm "still here."
(Bet you didn't see that coming.)

djdon,
You hit the nail on the head... TWICE....
It's all about 'da money, honey.

You have people with money taking a legal, technical advantage over people with far less money... and they'll be happy to put it on a payment plan complete with a shiny new contract to keep them that way.

PS: So many contracts as a matter of fact, they can't keep track of what each one does. If you have the gem series and decide to get the help license, you'll be in violation of your gem license... Dizzying ain't it?

This is not only incorrect, it's spectacularly ignorant.

GEM license agreement, Paragraph 4(c):

You wrote it so, who exactly is "spectacularly ignorant?"

So what part of original Sound Choice CDG do you not understand? If you have the disc and it's on your computer and verified by SC, then you're okay. If you don't have the disc you are not. That seems pretty clear to me. But you'd rather skip a few important words to continue you're hate on for SC and to give misinformation to others.

_________________
You can be strange but not a stranger

The HELP license supersedes that language. The ignorance I'm referring to is of how contract law works.

reading is fundamental...


the HELP program is for those without the original discs.
if you do not have the discs but have a HELP license you ARE okay, he was pointing out the GEM license seems to say you are not.

though i do not see someone spending $6,000 on the GEM and then pirating the rest to buy a HELP license that would also cover pirated versions of the 6,000 tracks they have on GEM.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Actually since Chip is obviously referring to people who got their tracks thru torrent or other means where they did not pay for the original media, the point is valid.

If you have a GEM license and then start using downloaded SC branded tracks in a show, you are in violation of your GEM obligations

I mean let's face it, how else are you going to get ALL of the tracks that have been released by soundchoice. Discs are getting harder and harder to find, and those that are available are becoming cost prohibitive. With the exchange rate and shipping, i now have to pay an average of $40/disc thru ebay which is more than i was paying at a retail brick and motar store in the glory days of karaoke.


editL: just read what Jim posted and now i don't know.. totally confused actually

If you have the GEM series and a HELP license, you are not in violation of the GEM series agreement by having tracks that are covered by the HELP license.

The form in which it is currently written, you certainly would be. Just because you have several contracts, does not mean that one can automatically supersede any other agreement. They are separate and distinct from each other.

You can try to convince people here of that all you want.

Time to re-write your gem agreement.

@Harrington

While the fencing between you and Chip is fun to watch, I am FAR more concerned about your advertising campaign.

I understand right now you are still working on it. But I am taking you to task to make sure the word gets out. I didn't even know WHO PEP was until my friends lawsuit, and that was a product your company had a hand in when it was out. No one save those who stalk the forums would know that you own the trade dress.

Also, many of us I'm sure would like to know when your company plans to start rolling out its lawsuits. Again, I know your giving time for yourselves, and for those who know some time to make a decision on what to do with CB product. But it would be nice to feel like we don't have to rush because today might be ok, but tomorrow the spotters go out.

FYI I do plan on registering my CB product with you. Honestly, I never liked this move and I feel the $50 is a BS shakedown. That being said, as I deal with lawyers from time to time, it's not even their first hour to look over the contract (Though I'll do that anyway).

Sorry when I say that I don't trust your company at all to do the right thing here, and having something on the forum, while not iron clad, would be far better then being totally in the dark. I promise I will shut up about it when I can verify that you have indeed make it known to the best of your abilities. Not just your website and this forum.

Thank you.

Someone asked the question can I transfer my SCDG discs to a hard drive and the answer was YES. Is that hard to understand? The right must have been given to CAVS to make these SCDG's or CB would have gone after them not the other way around. So if CAVS had the right to make these SCDG's then they must be able to give you permission to copy THEIR MATERIAL on to a hard drive.

Yes it also includes an explanation on how to do it I just edited that part out.

So what you are saying is NO they can't. Does that mean if you see CB content being played from a CAVS machine that you will sue? How can you sue when the maker of that disc gives you permission to transfer it to a hard drive? I don't have all the facts but I'm sure that somewhere in the dealings between CB and CAVS, CB allowed them to REPRODUCE CB's trademark,dress, etc. or ALL of CAVS discs would be illegal, yet they are still around and CB isn't.

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I like everyone when I first meet them. If you don't like me that's not my problem it's YOURS!
A stranger is a friend you haven't met yet

It is exactly a "BS shakedown" on so many levels. He's selling fear of impending lawsuits to KJ's as a cancer and offering lawsuit protection as the cure. What a hero huh?

If Harrington's firm just "wants to know who has the product," then tell me why there is any kind of legally-binding agreement that would place any kind of condition on a KJ who has no legal obligation to tell his trolling company anything? And he wants you to pay him for collecting this information? He wants what only you can give him. He should be paying you for it.

If he wants to offer a covenant not to sue in exchange for your identity and inventory, that's on him and it should be without any kind of condition on KJ's... PERIOD. Remember that PEP bought the trademark just to sue KJ's (you) and venues (your customers).

If you think that $50 is cheap insurance now, as soon as you agree to his contract, it gets more expensive.

Ask your own attorney and show them the contract first, if it costs you one night's work, it's still cheap.

The crickets are deafening aren't they?

This really doesn't matter, PEP is doing exactly what Harrington said they were going to do, put out public domain stuff. Just to say, "It's our trade dress, so now we can sue over it."

Since they came out so quickly (extremely fast for them), I'm 90% sure they are rehashed tracks from an old master. Wouldn't surprise me if they are just paper labelled and burned on the spot in case someone accidentally orders one.

What I am waiting for is to see what comes first... an actual new purchase worthy karaoke track from SC/PEP or a lawsuit based on CB tracks. I personally believe it will be the lawsuit.

The CAVS units are considered hardware, The SCDGs are considered software. Considering that Chartbuster made these songs to work with the system, The CB of old must of given the rights to end users to transfer these SCDGs onto a hard drive.

As the CAVS JB-99 wasn't capable of playing these SCDGs, and the JB-199 didn't have a CD tray, the only way it would have worked with these systems was that it required it to be transferred from the disk to the hard drive. Because you aren't using the actual SCDGs, you have shifted the media in PEP eyes.

But this poses an interesting question: Many people who bought those CB Essentials (Vol. 1-6) for the CAVS have converted it into MP3+G to work with their current karaoke host players. MCG is a proprietary format that CAVS uses to maintain some form of copy protection. Is it legal to shift the MCG into MP3+G format so hosts can benefit from those 2700 tracks? In the case of PEP, I would assume the answer is yes, but you need permission from them to do so. Hence why these SCDGs are excluded from the free registration, because while they are a single disk, they actually hold the 30 CDG collection they represent, far more then the 9 CD free limit.

I have read nothing from PEP that states you can't use the SCDGs, Convert those 6 SCDGs into something usable (shifted) or that you can't transfer them onto a hard drive without permission. Assuming you pay the $50/system fee, these SCDGs are included with that permission.

However using their "How much do I pay" formula, the "original Chartbuster media" condition is free. In theory, you could toy with that first line they state and NOT put the SCDGs on your Hard drive. I personally assume in that first line, "media" would mean actual CDGs, because then SCDGs, SD cards and hard drives as used by the host are INDEED on the original media, and not subjected to a fee. The condition of 9 or fewer CDs carries the different media type clause, so again in theory, if you didn't own an actual Chartbuster CDG while using alternate CB media, you are exempt from paying so long as you use the media in its original condition.

PEP better clear that up, or Chip will have a field day with that. Personally, it's not my circus, not my monkeys.

Whether CAVS or CB made these discs is irrelevant.

Whether one or the other had permission to make them is irrelevant.

What is relevant is this: When you copy the content of these discs to a hard drive, you are making a new physical thing. That thing is marked with the CHARTBUSTER KARAOKE trademarks. CAVS does not own the CHARTBUSTER KARAOKE trademarks. They do not have the right to give you permission to make new goods marked with the CHARTBUSTER KARAOKE trademarks. They do not have the right to give you permission to use those new goods commercially.

Please do not confuse the technical ability to do something with the legality of doing that thing. My car's speedometer goes to 140 mph. That does not mean the automaker has given me permission to drive 140 mph.



If we see CB-marked tracks playing from non-original media, regardless of the apparatus being used, then we consider that a trademark infringement, and we may sue to protect our rights.

No one except Phoenix can give you permission to make new goods that bear the CB trademark.

Even if CAVS had permission to make the discs--and I'm sure that they did have that permission, if they were the ones who made them--that permission does not extend to the right to authorize you to make new tracks bearing marks that CAVS does not own. That fact does not make the CAVS/CB Super CD+G discs illegal. We are not talking about the discs that were made. We are talking about new tracks.

Well, if you're willing to send them $50 to register something you never purchased from them, and the they never made in the first place in exchange for some tenuous promise that they won't sue you as long as you "perform to their contractual specifications," exactly who is the monkey here?

They are playing KJ's like a fiddle.