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The lawyer is taking the case because it's a very high profile case.  His name will be in the papers and his face plastered on TV.  He even stands to get a big payoff.  Doesn't mean he will win the case.  But he wins just from the publicity from it.

What if they do somehow get a real big settlement?  What if it's so big the zoo has to close it's doors?  Who wins?

I would hire a famous coroner to autopsy the cat.  Shave every hair from it's body to look for bruises from sling shot pellets, rocks, branches...whatever.

Dead men tell no tales so the kid can't confirm or deny the statements from the survivors.  But finger prints from thrown objects could be found or DNA.  Too bad there is no video tape to review.   The fact that they are uncooperative says something to me.

Do the visitors by way of the ticket purchase, agree to conduct themselves in a responsible manner?  Is animal cruelty a factor here?  That's worth jail time.  I would counter sue them for the tigers death and loss of zoo income.   Was that a Bengal tiger?   Can you say hate crime...based on the cats ancestry...

The zoo can be held negligent only if it knew the tiger area surround was deficient and chose to ignore it.  They are not guilty for having wild animals.  Who doesn't know that tigers are very dangerous at best.   Who doesn't know cats, when provoked can go nuts.   You don't mess with anything that is big and considered a meat eater, that has very big teeth and claws attacted to a very powerful lean musclular body.   That can run upwards of 30-40 miles an hour.   It would be like playing on the expressway at rush hour in 6 lane bumper to bumper traffic.   There are just somethings you should know better.

I'm not saying i never did anything that could have killed me because i have.  Lots of times.   Zoo animals and circus animals have killed before and will kill and be killed again.   Unpredictable is what wild means.    Skydive without a chute?  No you take a back up one.   Go on a big game safari without a gun?  You are surrounded by people with guns.   Scuba dive alone?  You have a diving buddy.   Why??? Because dangerous things can happen at unpredictable times.   But do any of these things without a back up and you are taking a big chance on being killed.

Little kids have been shot by cops because they thought a toy gun was real.  Seasoned professionals can make big mistakes.   These kids made a big mistake and they under estimated the power of an angry cat.  Elephants have broken their ankle chains.   Monkeys have been known to unlock cages.   Elephants bent cage bars on their rampages.   The Cat in the Hat and Green Eggs and Ham.   You all know, how right i am.

A person of any age and size is no match against a tiger.   Don't mess with something that is bigger and more powerful than you.   Do not take for granted that zoo or circus animals can not or will not hurt you.   Nobody can ever know what that animal is thinking about or about it's actual state of mind.  They can only guess.

Every mass murderers friends and family always say i never knew they could do such a thing.  He was always such a good likeable boy.   You can never even tell what a person actually has going on in their mind.  So how can you ever tell about a wild animal?  The only thing for certain is the fact that it is a WILD ANIMAL.  Treat it as such and be careful always.  Don't trust them.

Tatiana was a Siberian tiger.  They are on the critically endangered species list and part of the Species Survival Plan.

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[shadow=white][scroll]Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.....It's about learning to dance in the rain[/scroll][/shadow]

and for this reason your cup holds no water Sidewinder..

This "wild and unpredictable animal" wasn't sufficiently contained by the zoo. Case and point.  She was able to "at will" climb out've her grotto... That is the zoo's team of professional zoologists responsibility to make certain WILL NOT happen !  By your logic this same "Wild Animal" might've considered somebodies daughter (around this same feeding time of evening it escaped, a girl who just might've started crying and throwing a tantrum in front of the cage) an appetizer.  As stated, this cat ripped the arm off her feeder last year this same time..


Who is responsible for the care of this cat ?   Who assumes responsibility by taking money from customers to see the animals on exhibit promising them a safe viewing environment allowing minors ?

Where do zoo's have signs that serve as disclaimers stating...



btw... such a disclaimer wouldn't even exonerate them assuming such an event happens.  As a lay person, this just seems to be a poor calculation to me anyway, grotto wall is only 12 1/2 feet.... Look at the stats on the Siberian Tiger


what's the amazing feat jumping it's walls ??  It's a wild avid hunter by nature !

I'm sure they will try to autopsy the cat btw... assuming they can. I think all they found in the grotto that might've been thrown were pine cones, and sticks..



Sidewinder,  while this is true to varying extents, MANY points are being brought up by you, not all points of course would help your case exempting the zoo from their responsibility. Are minors allowed into certain exhibits ?  Why were the kids there unattended ?  A women and her young child were JUST at that same point.. etc..
"What they are" in this case is the worlds number one preditor !  So,  assuming you allow them to go on zoo exhibit what must be done to accomodate "what they are" ? and who must see to this ?  Zoologists that are pro's in this area !  They are on the zoo's pay-roll..  Yet, in the case of Tatiana a PRO lost her arm to Tatiana !... So what tatiana is, is a tiger with strong innate behaviour that's not been shed by her being captive in a zoo, it's known the strongest preditors ARE just that.. a Tiger is a tiger, a Great White Shark, and 25 foot reticulated python wild animals that we won't change the nature of (this we know)... something was overlooked by zoo staff.
These aren't petting zoo species..In a fantasy-world perhaps... yet if every kid was "Steve Irwin", crocs might be housepets too !
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Yeah Cathi,  this is really a tragic thing... there are VERY few of these cats left in the world... again, zoo is responsible for the cats well-being too !!!

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

What they will likely now do is install closed circuit cameras at vital points, even have personel that are stationed at certain points during visiting hours... they will extend the height of the grotto as other zoos have in more recent past years, perhaps having electrical wiring, or alarm systems.. Sure I feel bad for the cat too btw.... BUT, legally any way this is cut.... It's the zoo's responsibility to protect ALL ! Cat too !!!!!!  Assuming the kids were able to throw something at the cat, they should not have been able to.. BUT, my own feeling is this is tragic for the families, and this cat was worth a FORTUNE !   While it's also a living wild animal, can you imagine the dollar value of this cat ?  Millions  !

Due to insurance pay-out and increase in zoos cost this too will likely change



vbu2c5 stated it quite accurately, our outside looking in emotion, rhetoric, hyperbole isn't what the courts concern themselves with..  There are certain facts, and the most obvious fact is "Cat was able to escape" thus-far.

Look at things this way given media frenzies...  Remember the beltway snipers a few years back ?   How many viewers would've lynched the first guy the police caught and detained ?   MANY !

They were wrong !

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Wow, the stats on the tiger definitely puts things in perspective. So with no water in the moat ( first no no ) a full grown female standing on her hind legs with her front paws outstretched could possibly reach close to 10 feet, that is taking into consideration the female is a bit smaller. So all she had to do was jump 2 to 4 feet to hook her claws and pull herself out. Nothing extraordinary there, heck watch " Rush Hour " with Jackie Chan and see how easy it is to traverse an 8 to 10 foot wall with a running start for a athletic human being.

I have seeen an internet video where a hunter sitting on top of a safari type vehicle shoots at a wild tiger. The tiger in the blink of an eye takes off running, leaps in the air and barely misses the hunter, the leap was spectacular, I'll bet it covered 20 feet in length easily and at least 10 to 12 feet high. Although zoo animals are not in the shape of animals in the wild, it still doesn't seem that amazing that the tiger got out considering the height of the wall.

Basketball is an area I have no knowledge of, but let me ask this... a 6' 5" basketball player with arm extending for slam dunk is still shorter than an extended Siberian TIger correct ? rear legs of course are MUCH more powerful on the tigher too..  Now a slam dunk often reaches what height ?  10.5 feet ?

Seems a tiger has it easy at 2 feet more...

Have you folks ever seen how a cat elongates itself when it leaps thru the air ? it expands it's vertebrate, so she was a long cat when she decided to take the jump ! Probably ws effortless for her.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Wow, a few cat expert here. I am a wildlife biologist, but tiger is not one of those that I study. I used to work for an org that have the best Zoo in the world, but I am not a zoo keeper.

continue please...

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

Actually not a cat expert, but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn last night! Truthfully, Google is a good friend of mine.

Yes and some pro athletes can touch 12 feet.

Jian, you got me thinking, I really don't want to come off as a know it all, if I did to anyone I apologize. Sometimes it just irks me when people speak off the top of their head and don't do a little research. My statement above is simply a scenario, I didn't state it as a fact. You see a certain wildlife expert who often frequents talk shows said ( before he had all the facts ) that it would take the leap of a lifetime for Tatiana to get out of that enclosure, it was simply not true. I apologize again and I will no longer post on this thread as a sign of sincerity. Happy New Years to all!

vbu2c5....Sleeping at a Holiday Inn Express...   Makes you the leading expert on this forum.  :O


If they indeed were taunting the animal, they have to assume some of the resposnibility for their actions and that of the cat..

It takes some of the burden off of the Zoo.


18 years ago i got rear ended...  

in a car accident

I have 3 herniated discs in my neck.  Two from the accident and one from high school.  My lawyer explained it to me this way.  The insurance co. for the other guy will say you had a neck injury before, so they shouldn't have to pay.  My lawyer says that it doesn't matter because their client put my neck at risk.   If i have a dozen eggs and one is broken.  You make me break 5 more, you have to pay for the broken eggs.   You are responsible.   But what if the accident was my fault?   I was stopped behind a guy making a left turn.  The vehicle behind my failed to stop.  Their foot never left the gas pedal.  They never hit the breaks.    

But what if i stopped to make the turn without using a signal.   Would i have won the law suit?  Am i 100% resposible for the accident?    Yes and no.   Yes i failed to signal but they failed to stop in time.  They were not in total control of their vehicle.

I place "some" of the blame squarely on the victims.   Some on the zoo.  Who will win?    The kids created a situation that was unsafe by teasing the tiger.    The zoo created a situation by having an inadequate enclosure.  

That tiger may have never made that jump for it's entire life, if it wasn't provoked.

It's like the 85lb. grandma that lifts a car off her trapped grandchild.   No normal human being could have done it in a normal circumstance.    Fight or flight.  Kill or be killed.  A person or animal pumped up on adrenaline can do some amazing things.  Not normally achievable.   You could put 500 tigers in there and it may never happen again.

The Titanic was unsinkable.  Didn't last on trip.   All the wrong things happened at just the right time.  

The only way to win the case would be to make a tiger jump the jump again and make it.  To prove it can be done.   Without that proof it's anybodys word.   He said/she said.   Set up a test area with the same dimensions and make the tiger do it or try to do it.

 
 
 
Please don't get me wrong, I actual like the way this thread is developing.  
 
Let me relate an incident many years back that is similar to this on. A mentally challenged man climbed up the fencing of the tiger encloser. Tried to play with the tigers and was badly attacked. This happen AFTER closing time. The zoo security rescued him. The family sued but lost the case.  

Now what we have now is that the tiger get out of the encloser. Why and how it get out is not relevant. The zoo MUST keep the animal within the encloser. That is within the control of the zoo. Not doing that is negligent in the part of the zoo.

The different between the two cases is that in the first case it was the man who enter the encloser and got attack; whereas the 2nd one it was the tiger who escape and attack the kids.

And in this case the family sue and they are going to win.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

Jackie Chan isn't normal, he's half tiger.

Remember the fable about the girl walking in the woods in a blizzard and she comes upon a nearly frozen snake, and she feels sorry for it so she brings it home with her.  She puts it near the fire to warm up.  She feeds it and nurses it back to health.

The snake gets better and bites her.

As she lay dying, she asks the snake why he would do such a thing after she rescued him.

He tells her, you knew i was a snake when you picked me up.


The kids knew they were toying with a dangerous animal.  A tiger, is a tiger, is a tiger.   They never change into something else to fool you into thinking they are a tame house cat.

you mistaken him for Chuck Norris

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

Perhaps, but the tiger is not bald, and Chuck is..

I forgot the best part of the fable.

When the girl first sees the snake she starts to run away because it's a poisonous snake.  He calls out and begs her to save him.  She replys no because your bite can kill me.   He says if you don't save me i'll die.  So she takes him home and after he gets better he bites her.

The moral of the fable.   He always was a snake.  She knew he was a snake.  He did what snakes do.    So how can she be mad at him?

He wasn't trying to hide the fact that he was a poisonous snake.

If the tiger was hunting for food, he wouldn't have chased the other kids down too.  He would have stopped for lunch with the first one.   He was on a mission to stop a threat to the group and himself.   He was being a tiger.


You can cross the railroad tracks everyday and never be hit by a train.   Look at how many people walk the tracks and get killed.   You don't stay and play on the tracks and expect to be safe.   Dangerous trains are always coming down the tracks.  The railroad never gets sued because someone was lying on the tracks and got killed.  Is the railroad negligent because the tracks are not surrounded by a fence from one end of the country to the other?    Aren't trains as dangerous as a tiger?   Siberia isn't surrounded by a fence.  Chuck Norris can't stop a train or a tiger, he knows better.

Update: Two survivors overheard saying in ambulance, "Don't tell them what we did".

Well today the news said police say they were cooperating and there was no sign of taunting.

The tiger just didn't say i'm jumping out of here today.  And i'll kill these 3 kids.  I'm not buying it for one second.   Way too fishy.  

Maybe they will grow up to be lawyers.

the good news is they'll at least grow up!

Not so for the tiger! That one and the one kid that died are the losers in all of this!

Update:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22719922/?Gt1=10755

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[shadow=white][scroll]Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass.....It's about learning to dance in the rain[/scroll][/shadow]