Karaoke Forums

Hi Odie  :wave:

Now Kappy I would think of all people you would appreciate people having the courage to get up on stage.

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[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

OK Bab's.  You've opened up pandoras box of long-winded posts  LMAO
cuz now yer gonna catch it !!!!        HAHAHA

Karaoke isn't "real world" performing for an *audience* that wishes for artistic entertainment. In fact it can get quite rude !  In my opinion it's more like Toddlers day at the grown up pool where they lower the water level to three feet and let the kids swim where the grownups swim to feel like "big fish".  Point being,  it's because MOST can't sing, and few actually DO belong on a stage that the game of Karaoke (on a you too can be a star *stage* setting) exists, and those that can't sing,  get to pretend, and feel the sensation of getting to sing on-stage, being front-man with a band; It's part of what makes it fun, being an *exception* to the norm !  So how contrived this whole experience is to be is up to those in the given environment, (meaning applause, etc), since it's NOT meant to be real;  It's not a setting for those of us that wish to hear aesthetically pleasing artform, or talent ! It's make-believe !  Yet for those that aren't at a place for Karaoke (which IS often the case up around here) the listeners have REAL expectations of those blaring into a microphone, whether they should or should not !  And similarly, it's the talent level that attracted me to Karaoke Scene and not the dissonant singing.


and it should ALWAYS be tough for good reason IMHO !
Similarly, Why do so many women (and some men) spend time putting on makeup, and doing their hair, dressing stylishly before just going out in public, sometimes just when shopping, or going out for the night to enjoy themselves, NOT under a stagelight ? It's because they care about their appearance, VANITY ? Sure,  people look, judge, talk, and like aesthetically pleasing in our culture !  Well with Karaoke, the singing goes into a microphone, and people are exposed to it even more-so, and it often impinges itself on others, and can be quite ugly,  but if people wish to let their hair down, sobeit.  I never would, it's embarassing IMHO.  Just because a person dares to get up and sing horribly doesn't mean many in the audience change perspective of what their expectations of a particular song are.


There's still a REAL aspect to what is going on regarding listeners in particular settings Babs.  Such as the LARGE venues I've been exposed to.


Most places around me that have Karaoke ARE NOT small bars that have about 40 that show up for Karaoke.  They are VERY large singles bars and many in the crowd cringe.  Karaoke in such places really should be in a smaller separate room IMHO.

Personally I can't sit thru an evening of Karaoke.  What I hear often is too painful, it's NOT what I wish to hear and see as somebody enjoying themselves in an audience setting, Off key brash singing without tasteful presentation hurts to listen to. And,  for this reason *I* don't participate in front of an audience that isn't small and JUST for Karaoke only. Either I don't understand something about Karaoke, or I just strongly disagree that aside from the smaller group that goes into an environment for just Karaoke solely, when you have a LARGE crowd exposed to lousy singing, the reaction by most is :That is one lousy rendition:. To me that belongs in a more private setting, Stage is for those that CAN do something, it never was a game for adults until Karaoke came along, and stage won't be for hacks after Karaoke ceases to be a fad. Fact is,  It ticks off many hearing crappy singing (whether it should or should not is moot, people KNOW the difference in an audience), and take singers showcase for instance, what people hear, and what people state are quite different, My lifelong experience from about 6 or 7 on was brutal honesty in the performing arts, I respect the performing arts, I also wish to see dignity remain in "performing".

I appreciate talent on stage,  nothing less, Stage is where you are expected to give 110% once you've earned the right to be there.   It SHOULD take courage to get on stage. Similarly those that belong on a stage exhibiting themselves *should* also have proper preparation of what being on stage is about as adults in the real world, Even non-performers learn in school "Study and practice before giving a report in front of the whole classroom", Being in the public eye isn't a place for hacks in the real world.   Karaoke is a fun game, but it's NOT representative of what performing, and getting on stage (performing for a paying audience or anyone with expectations and standards) should be about in my opinion.   I've never utilized Karaoke as a public means if exposure because I believe ALL listeners deserve decent performing. Incidently, MOST in here that submit Karaoke material can sing, others admit they really can't and know where they stand which is fine IMHO, some wish for assistance and honestly, but can't get that, and that sucks. Those that wish for Karaoke to be real CAN'T even find real responses. Yet  Audiences are judgemental,  Most also are brought up in a culture where they learn to respect talent, and are judged based upon their performing ability.  Seriously, HOW many of you haven't said, :If I sounded THAT bad I'd never submit, that person has no clue of what's real: ?  I don't like seeing that in adults, especially adults that ask for honesty, but whether people are honest or not to others, they hear it when somebody sucks. If people wish to boost the courage of a person making an (@$%&#!) out've themselves on a stage, (and give the abomination of a singer in the singers showcase straight "9"s since few feel they can be honest) such people have NO right to wonder how certain individuals that suck actually got to AI level performing.

Quite honestly,  when I'm in the audience and somebody that really can't sing gets up on stage and makes a fool of themselves,  I think to myself "My God,  don't you have more dignity than that?" but in a Karaoke setting I suppose things are different.    Again,  I love the session training aspect of Karaoke. As a means for me to attempt to LEARN to sing.  I will not submit to "Showcase",  I will not get "on stage".  It's important NOT to confuse "Karaoke" as an entertaining game with what a performer really should be.  Performing is an ART.  When I go to the bathroom I shut the door and do it in private...  Similarly, when I sing I do the same thing. IF I perform something and the audience applauds,  I hope at least some mean it, otherwise the only ones doing me a favor, are the ones that pull me aside and tell me,  "you don't belong on stage looking and sounding like that bud. Do that behind closed doors if you enjoy it."

I grew up in a world where "Unless you do something very well, you don't perform it". MOST of us grew up in that same world.  But yes,  Karaoke puts a different spin on "stage singing", IS this real though ? Assuming it's not, what the audience hears *IS*, and their feelings on what they are exposed to are quite honest. It only makes sense to me, that if you can't do something reasonably well,  you just DO NOT do it on a stage in a performance setting, (but that's MY feeling).

I know this goes against the grain insofar as what Karaoke is actually about, but let's not confuse genuine performance (which should require a good deal of preparation to keep standards higher), with "Karaoke" a fun game.  This is how I feel.  I believe it should ALWAYS take courage to get on a stage, because few ACTUALLY belong there in the real world.  With alcohol some just love to be onstage, once they get used to the sensation, and it's certainly an ear-sore.    Karaoke is the singer getting THEIR turn in a game.  Karaoke isn't for "the audience", in fact in many cases it's just a painful experience for the audience. It's for ALL to play along.

It's not the real performing world.  Nor should it be mistaken for it. Audiences know aesthetically pleasing, from "My God,  how could you ".   MANY that can't sing, DO NOT even in a Karaoke setting for this reason.  All individual perrogative. In a karaoke setting with a handful of people JUST enjoying Karaoke, I would participate.  In a lounge with 500 people where many have no use for Karaoke, I NEVER would..  I always played  with Karaoke in a private studio room with a CAVS jukebox and a few friends singing for MUSICAL aspects only, when something sounded OK,  I was told,  when it didn't fortuneately I was told.

JMHO.  

So,  I disagree with this particular aspect Babs..  because in my honest opinion it SHOULD be VERY inhibiting getting on-stage, and there's a GOOD reason for that !

Sorry KJ's !   This is why I get long-winded.  Very different train of thought on an aesthetic form that is being amplified via sound-system.  I suppose hearing some sing to me is noise pollution.   Of course similarly my typing to some is pollution too, so it all becomes subjective,  this I know !

:::::Steps off soapbox, slips and pokes out eye::::::::

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Quite a few that are extremely talented old school performers are able to transcend my rigid conservative perspective on being "on-stage".  They look at things differently. Which is great.  I'd like to, but people ARE people, and audiences are harsh !  THe question is "Do you care" ?   Personally, I DO ! For me, and many others that have expectations of what musicianship is, and what singing is, as well as what a singer is not.  I'll always defer to those that CAN sing EVEN in the Karaoke setting because for some, the walk of shame is getting up in front of a microphone in the first place.  Quite a few of you DO belong on the stage because you CAN sing, but the lifestyle also can suck, but it's a pleasure to hear those that can sing such as yourself Babs,  Kelly, and quite a few in here.  As well as those trying that remain humble... I suppose I just feel there should always be respect and proper etiquette when "On stage".  Some of us just DO NOT belong their when singing.  We must earn it by practicing first !


JMHO

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I once entered a contest along with my friend DT back in 97 in nassau county ny in a local bar. We both had enough vocal talent to make the finals(The crowd were the judges).
During the finals the kj intentionally turned off the volume to our mics, The crowd looked puzzled but after the show out in the parking lot the kj and his buddies taunted me, Jerks.

That show didn't last long.

BJC,  What was their intent.  To make certain you couldn't win ?  That is maddening ! I'd be fuming !  The judges had no say in this or was the whole group crooked ?

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Steve k, I read thru your last post. Did someone rub you the wrong way?

As far as people dressing up for karaoke( Maybe its all the spare cash they have for fun and they wish to live it to the fullest).

Most karaoke singers are not pros, Cmon steve we know that bro.

No defence needed here, bjc

Yea bro, I fumed for a bit and then did more shots and afterwards went to a 7/11 across the street to buy some string cheese, Yum

I know how that can be.  We had issues during HS battles of the bands where there was always bias against certain districts, areas, and all sorts of political bs, Wilton, and Easton CT kids seldom stood a chance..  Nobody messed with the Bridgeport kids though,  that'd be a war few would win.  Lot's of bias in those contests, in fact it sucks.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Big Jimmy,  No particular person did, but I think this is what's getting to me.

Here's the confusion, and it's now got me confused given what happens in the Showcase, vs dishonesty with "oneself" in so many cases.  Read this original post, and see how Karaoke often DOES take on Real live performer expectations

This is a great example where the answer solely depends on whether this was just "Karaoke",  or a person on stage in a Karaoke environment really wishing to be a good "Performer".  There's some confusion that's been going on in here.  There's a HUGE difference between intent being Just Karaoke vs "Artistically skilled performer", and the answer is radically different depending on which the stage person is opting for.  But too often the two mix.. the line crosses. 

should applaud----->singers expectation of applause----->Karaoke game crosses the line into false self image on stage----->Singers Showcase mentality such as "I want to save my "10" rank but the nasty person that gave me that 8 is sabotaging me" (when in reality the singer sucks and is a 2 rank)------->In real abomination of a singer makes total (@$%&#!) of themselves in large REAL venues thinking they belong on stage such as AI, while same friends that didn't have the balls to be honest can't seem to understand how a fool that is even more talented than their friend who they encouraged similarly, got to the level of AI without a clue how bad they are.

It all started out as "Just Karaoke".  Yet within Karaoke MANY lose perspective, and I suppose now I am too  LOL Just Karaoke still involves some real IMHO,  why should everything be dishonest and contrived such as audience applause assuming it's "for the singer and for fun".

Regarding dressing for "Karaoke",  I was discussing people dressing doing their hair for just day to day mundane shopping,  being seen in public, yet disregarding how they appear on a stage, or having no regard for how they are coming across because the environment is expected to be overtly dishonest, which misleads some, and given the applause chatter to "Encourage all, applaud for all, despite how most cringe when having to hear them",  it bugs me I suppose, because many of these people DO NOT wish to appear and sound as they do. When we sing, we don't hear ourselves as we actually sound.. Fun is one thing, but some really wouldn't be on the stage assuming they knew how they actually sounded and appeared,  I suppose this is what bugs me,  can't tell you why, I dislike dishonesty in the performing arts I suppose, yeah it's rampant, true. Yet the same that say applaud, also wonder why a few make total asses out've themselves on AI, or like settings.  The singer becomes the butt of humor because of lies that misled them in certain cases perspective IS shot. The talk about "people should Applaud", coupled with what we see in Singers Showcase where fluff becomes psuedonymn fo lie, and that's what people wish for, yet they DO mistake it for what's real, just makes me realize that although it's JUST KARAOKE, it's still not an excuse for adults to totally lose perspective IMHO by expecting the audience to appreciate & respect them in all cases, learn to expect lies (dishonest applause), even wish to control the audience when it should be for THEIR singing fun only, *despite the audience* Otherwise if they wish for approval, they shouldn't be on the stage bothering listeners in a lounge of 500 (where Karaoke is only one of many activities, such as what I see too often) without regard for the fact of how they really sound. I feel more SHOULD realize that if a person can't sing, the audience has *a right* to not like hearing them butchering songs the audience likes, and similarly has a right to wish NOT to lie to them, encouraging what they deem a repugnant performance. Honesty even in this game IMHO shouldn't be deemed as *wrong*  Some really don't seem to have a clue that they're making total asses out've themselves, while friends lie to their faces.
 I feel as adults there should always be SOME dignity when on a stage, it's always a position of priviledge. And, it bothers me to see this type etiquette severely compromised. I suppose I do get irritated by all the lying I see while the same people claiming "You should clap for all" despite the fact that in doing so those clapping would be encouraging something they hate to hear, don't wish to encourage and what's worse saying out've the side of their mouth, "Damn that person was agonizing to listen to.",  I guess I can't understand that mentality with the exception of young children applying it.

I can't explain what rubbed me the wrong way,  but I guess I don't believe all should receive praise for getting on stage by any stretch of the imagination even in a Karaoke setting.

You have a good point, something did rub me the wrongway..  No offense taken. I appreciate you taking the time to read that..  Old school upbringing that I can't shake off I suppose, I believe "If you can't be proud of it, you shouldn't present it in front of a LARGE audience expecting them to like you for it"..  I'm having a tough time adapting to the drastic change regarding what Karaoke is since some are expecting the audience should be dishonest and pretend even assuming they can't stand a performance...

I suppose like yourself.   I only want honesty when I perform regardless of the setting, which IMHO means sometimes hearing "You didn't belong on the stage in front of a large venue".  Yeah,  I'm confused,  I admit it.

I think I equate "You should applaud", with "you should fluff". The lying gets annoying IMHO

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Shouldn't Karaoke realistically be the way Jian,  and Johnny Reverb and several others accept it to be, seems that THIS is proper perspective.



Similarly what Johnny Reverb stated regarding not wishing to be patronized, and pampered by a lying audience in an adult setting ? We are adults for gods sake,  what do people want from an audience ? The "Stepford Audience" ?   If people clap, it MIGHT be real, maybe contrived, maybe a total lie, but kudos shouldn't be a cheap handout, my own feeling is charity applause SUCKS, and adults should never wish for sympathy applause IMHO.. If people do not clap though, THAT IS real ! despite the reasoning.  The Karaoke singer gets a chance to sing,  gets a chance to experience a real audience to a degree, but assuming they bomb this time, and love singing, they will always get the chance to sing likely every night !  and they can go home, practice, improve eventually EARNING applause and becoming a GOOD singer too !!   Why is this not a goal to strive for if people love to sing ? For most THAT doesn't seem to be enough, they really do have a desire to be a "skilled performer", and that takes A LOT of work.   Like the showcase, why must everybody automatically be an icon expecting an instant round of praise and a "10" in a very difficult area without regard for actual ability, and at what level they should be competing and performing ?  I don't get it.  Why can't there remain some reality, self awareness, and STILL fun ?

Should everything be dishonest and end up like the showcase where everyone is a 10, and many believe it ?  Accept that performing on a stage is NEVER risk free or impervious to some element of reality. It shouldn't be either !  If it is,  some are lying.

I think this is why I went insane  LMAO

For those that don't like totally Politically correct atmospheres,  this is just feeling too "artificially perfect"  where ALL that sing can "get a gold star"  Why would adults ALWAYS expect applause if Karaoke is for THEIR individual fun without expectations ?
IF it's praise they actually wish for,  I've got news for some  LOL

OMG,  I'm turing into Ollie  :shock:

Why can't people that love Karaoke, Love it keeping it IN PERSPECTIVE,  meaning it's OK to suck, and have people not appreciate that you suck, but still understand this is for you, so get it over with you do your thing, we won't judge you, but don't expect us to like what we hear either ?  If it's audience expectation the singer has, they should know how they sound prior to performing, and sound good !  Also meaning, since this is just Karaoke, It's OK to ask for a Critique, and be told you can stand to improve, and get a well deserved 3.6 rank, meaning It's OK to not be a pro when you are no where near one, but the positive side is, there's room to grow, and ACTUALLY become good and get REAL applause ?   Adults ARE NOT keeping this in perspective. Karaoke or not, EVERY artform takes practice, and work. It's OK to not be good assuming you don't think you're gods gift to everybody's ears, and know your actual place.  If it bothers you that people don't applaud you,  you are taking yourself to seriously, or maybe don't belong on a stage assuming you care what others think ! Some might not be considering that maybe they just aren't that good, or the audience has other stuff they are doing and thinking thats more fun for THEM.  Why such egocentricism ?  Realistically applause, even stage worthiness SHOULD be earned.  If you wish for audience approval, EARN IT !  Don't expect it on a silver platter,  thats babyish !!

I just don't get it !!!!  I suck at singing, but I love doing it,  and one day I might be a proud "5" rank singer, and If/when I earn that it'll feel good, because I learned to do something very tough for me, but I know where I stand.. and I love it.  What's wrong with loving to do something that people tell you you suck at ?  and letting those that are average singers, approach the stage ? If someone that can sing thinks you can falsetto, they call you up to sing because they wish for you to falsetto a song part because THEY THINK you can !  But knowing where you stand in an artform or sports activity ?  Otherwise, what's wrong with just singing and submitting without expectations of raving kudos, and "10" ranks ?  but live and let live..  I'm REALLY not understanding something here ~  What's wrong with people being honest with you ?

OK,  I'm now done freaking out.  I'm going to take a tranq,  and get to sleep.  Night all !

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I agree with you Steven.  I guess I should have added that though MOST of my crowd does clap; it is always very obvious that the better the performance; the louder and stronger the praise.  

Kelly

I think what gets to me is a few of the younger kids,  that get up to the microphone screaming some rendition of a song in a horribly distasteful manner while it's obvious they are trying to impress a girl (or 10) by making sounds resembling a Beagles mating call..   These are huge bars,  certain people can be a painful experience.  I think having a certain amount of respect for your crowd, knowing what's what, should always be part of the on stage experience whether it's Karaoke or not.  Nobody has to be a great singer, but those at the microphone should have some respect for their crowd even still.  I think it helps when people DO have some concept of where they stand in any activity they participate in.  Drinking and testosterone just are poor excuses to hurt a lounge full of ears IMHO.  I believe all should have "respect" for their audience especially in Karaoke.

Now audience reaction concerns...  a WHOLE different level of performance, NOW the concern shifts to "audience pleasing" and that requires knowledge and skill.
You could pull that off Kelly, because you are a VERY good singer, you could perform assuming you wished to.  But MANY in the Karaoke environment can't, and assuming they knew their ability level in this area, it might help.

JMO

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Steven, you must have seen my show last night.   Had a young kid do exactly that.  Got up to the microphone and the first thing he wanted to do was scream in the mic.  I shut the music off, turned his mic off and told him if he wanted to scream, then go out in the parking lot.  If he wanted to sing, we'd start it up again.  He consented and all went well and afterwards he apologized.

It surprises me how many of these "kids" do tend to show very little regard to respect the crowd or sometimes the kj; but it also reinforces my view that many of these "kids" do not seem to have anyone guiding them in a good direction.  And I find many who maybe even subconsciously respect and or appreciate the fact that you "lay down the law."  

Kelly

Exactly Kelly !   Karaoke CAN be (of course from our perspective SHOULD BE) a quality form of entertainment, and like all activities, there should be rules and certain boundaries.  It really doesn't matter if ALL singing are good, BUT, (as you've well stated) respect SHOULD exist among audience AND performer alike, around here it's a free-for-all of sorts;  You've got me thinking that the problem in MY particular case may very well be,  I don't actually know what a PROFESSIONAL KJ is. It's quite possible I've NEVER heard or been exposed to "a professional" KJ.   Just because the places I go to have Karaoke (just three in my local area) and "supposed" KJ's,  does not mean they have pro KJ's that do the activity justice !   These are clearly younger individuals lacking any concept of performer/ audience psychology,  just individuals putting the CD-R in the player and handing over the microphone,  nothing more !

Since I've already admitted my experience with bar karaoke is limited.  I might also admit that I really don't know what a Professional KJ does to make the show a quality show vs the babysitting session with a microphone for big drunken babies that it appears I've been exposed to.  I suppose all I'm wishing to see is people maintain SOME degree of respect when on the stage in front of a large audience, because I can't shake my upbringing that this is a place of priviledge.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Sorry to hear that Steven.  The word "professional" has always been a stick in my craw.
It goes back to early days when I was chief with a combination department. (both paid and volunteer)  Then I went to where I've been chief the last 10 years ; with a completely paid department.  And when I first came i heard the statements like,' We're professional"  "They're just part time." or "volunteer."

I realize the dictionary states professional as "one being paid."  And I concede that there are such things a ball players who are paid.  Unfortunately in my book many are not what I would call professional.  

I am a "part time" KJ/entertainer.  Do I get paid? Yes.  Does that make me professional? NO.  At least not in my book.  

I don't care whether you are a doctor or a street sweeper.  I don't care whether you get paid or don't.  Professionalism to me is the way you conduct not only your business,     but your life as a whole. (OMG  The deep intellectual style of "Kaplan writing" is over coming me. )

I have to say I am glad I was born when I was.


Kelly

Kelly years ago I was comparing our volunteer fire dept with navy training. In fact home on leave I would assist on calls. It has grown into one of the most respected vol depts in the state and country. They leave family functions to go on calls anytime day or night.. They are professionals in every sense of the word.

history

photo

Theirs is a big area to the Wyoming border from brush fires to interstate accidents. Most have fought several out of state forest fires..

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The orgasm that I experience,  when I get up to sing in front of strangers, far exceeds the clapp  :) I might get from
'members"  LOL of the audience....and no Steven, size still dosn't matter......

 :shock:
::::::::::::::takes another tranq and heads back to bed::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I agree with all of this Kelly.  In fact,  I suppose this is what confused me..  Even when I play, I try to do it "the right way", and respect those around me.  Some call it being "rigid" and never letting go.  I call it social conduct, and "respect".  For the rough stuff,  there's behind closed doors (but that's just how I was raised).  Yet for those that disagree,  I still believe that it's an honor to be on a stage in front of a large crowd, and this should never be exploited.  Exploitation of such an honor is often pollution. IMHO

Regarding upbringing/conditioning.  Naturally this plays a huge part in what eventually becomes our own value system, some will argue this is a :subjective: area, and of course that is tough to debate because it is, however in our society there are basic elementes of etiquette we are taught, and these should always apply on a stage IMHO.  The stage is no place of slovenly behaviour (again IMHO)  It was crammed into me growing up that "stage etiquette" is extremely important.  By time a person is old enough to enter a bar, they've had enough schooling and social conditioning pertaining to "presentation" to know what the word "tact" means.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Good to hear karyoker!  Having started out as a volunteer I have nothing but the highest respect for those that do.  I have always consider it an honor and myself very fortunate to get paid for something that I love to do.  And as far as my singing and KJing:  I tell everyone that my hobby used to be fishing and golfing, but that no one ever wanted to pay me any money to watch.  LOL   So I changed hobbies.

Kelly