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sleep well my friend  :hug:

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

For a normal tornado you would still be able to see the tornado because of condensation making cloud material and forming the shape of the tornado. True, you wouldn't see debris unless it lifted the asphault (and that sometimes happens). You can have clear (non condensation) tornadoes. Often these occur in drier conditions, and typically in the earlier stages of formation. I suppose if one of these passed over something tha prevent it ingesting any debris or dirt then it would be almost invisible. You'd probably still be able to tell if you were looking at cloud base that something was up though, but you would have to be very attentive.

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The Truth Is Out There

I have to add I love these Earth science topics. That's the stuff I tend to watch on Tv almost exclusively. I'm also interested in military history, adventure documentaris (like climbing Everest), and other funky real world stuff like Mythbusters, etc.

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The Truth Is Out There

The mountain climbing expeditions are something I'm fascinated in as well Bill.. I also enjoy strange phenomenon such as Sink Holes.  Blue holes, and of course this type story...  If you wish for an amazing read...This had me captivated throughout the documentary..  It's about open circuit diving, and dangers of Nitrogen Narcosis when divind deep sinkholes .. An extreme diver (Dave Shaw) who went on a dangerous mission to rescue the skeleton of a fellow diver who failed in Boesmansgat Cave in South Africa for the deceased divers parents to have some resolution,  The point by point documentary I read was over 25 pages, but this is a recap or summation of the dangers..  See if you can find the story regarding setting up the expedition, and how quickly a diver can descend 900 feet, but how long decompression ??  takes, stopping every 100 feet during ascending for a few hours.. adjusting blood gases..

http://www.cdnn.info/news/industry/i050110.html

You ever go to Devil's Sinkhole in Texas, Bill ?  Or that large one in MExico ???  (forgot the name)  Vacation or something ??

BRB..

OK here's the link

http://www.esi.utexas.edu/features/Arch ... caton.html

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Blue holes (bottomless pond formations) ?  or Legends ?

Here's something I found fascinating,  this is the Monroe New Jersey Blue hole that as it turns out, when researching is a pond about 4 feet deep  LMAO .  Urban Legend.  There's also a famous Blue hole in Ohio supposedly bottomless (Blue hole of Castala),  turns out it's about 35 feet deep.  I'll post that when I find it...

http://www.angelfire.com/nj/becjosh/bluehole.html


ADDED IN:

http://www.ohiohistory.org/ohswww/etcet ... fm?ID=4207


Here is something interesting that goes back to our earlier discussion regarding "Wind Generated" breakers in Hawaii.  This is a record photographed.. I think it's about 60 feet ??





AND,  Speaking of Mt Everest expeditions THIS road must be taken in Kathmandu to get to Everest.. It's called gorge road, and to me,  this is scarier than actually risking ones life on Everest..   (If you look midway on the road you will see s tiny spec that's a white double-decker bus), this is a deep scary gorge !




The next and last photo is coroica road near La Paz Bolivia.  It's considered the worlds most dangerous road, based on several factors.  First and foremost is it's yearly deathrate. It's actually known as "The worlds most dangerous road", and has sheer drop-offs at a few places of over 3000 feet.  It's also one lane dirt road with waterfalls landing on the road, and it's a two way road.. Lot's of crosses on this road where folks didn't make it.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Sinkholes eh? Interesting. I've never heard of Devil's Sinkhole. Where is it located?

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The Truth Is Out There

Bill, sorry about that..

This is what happens when my fingers leave my brain behind..  I had the Devils Sinkhole national park link all ready to post, and cancelled it out when I found the Zacation sinkhole site.... let me find the link,  and I'll post it here !!!

http://www.utexas.edu/tmm/sponsored_sit ... nkhole.htm

You also can enter "Devil's Sinkhole" in a websearch engine and A LOT will come up, including photo's of the 300-400 foot entrance of the sinkhole. etc.  The topography of the area, etc

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Nathan,  Hope you are still around here someplace..  I need to rewatch my Nostradamous tapes.  There's something fascinating about what we current call "metaphysical" aspects of events... Which essentually translates to all we don't currently understand.. I am also fascinated in paranormal phenomenon, or situations that we don't currently understand.

Also,  there're are, and have been some fascinating conspiracy theorists that get into the Luminatii, Bilderbergers, Cryptic Masons, and "new world order" scenerio.. If you  haven't already, you might wish to watch "Loose Change- 9-11 conspiracy", there is some fascinating *what appears to be* scientific documentation that's tough to either refute, or understand.  Ominous activity of course isn't just linked to "Natural" disaster, unless of course one considers evolution of a species and intellect proportionate to the species in time doing itself in... (IE..Man's intellect and the advent of science might be our demise)

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

You guys are nuts believing in this.  LOL  :)

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

Maybe Jian.  I don't really believe in ghosts, but I'm still afraid of seeing one. I suppose I don't understand how death can exist either (from my perspective as a person who's alive), but it supposedly does..  I just don't know what to believe in, or what not to believe in.  So much is and isn't real at any given time.  Our facts, that might or might not be "illusion", and order and reality appear to exist simultaneously.. Does Infinity exist ?  Is the answer either ALL "evolution or Creation theory "  aren't there gaps in both ?   It gets confusing to me.. Science of course, and math are even man-created right ?  They are inductive. While I agree that believing in certain things does us little good (because we aren't going to be able to change certain things),  they are still fascinating even from what might be a science-fiction perspective.. But personally,  I've learned that it's best to say, I don't know.. Because I don't.

You are a scientist, but when it comes to Cosmology, Epistemology and Ontology  which comprise Metaphysics (and do exist at least as thought), Science also runs up against a wall at some point.  As does math, and all language regarding "Where do we come from" and other existential factors such as Why and Who are we ?

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Some of the science and math involved in Cosmology is WAY over my head.  I'm just not smart (or focused) enough to study these areas because of the academic prerequisite skills needed, however when discussing these areas with a Physicist, his answer to me was.... "Don't feel bad, even science runs into a dead end when wondering what life and death and existence are all about, who and where and why we are, etc",  Whether Time does or doesn't exist is also questionable.  Since time is man-created too..  This is why even Einstein felt "There must be God"... God to me is as or more abstract a concept than ANY of what we study in Metaphysics.. To me that is very illogical too, but what do I know ?   ALMOST Nothing .

Can mathematics show past, present and future ?

This aside, I need to read Deepak Chopra.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Hell yes Jian. Not perhaps as most perceive them but believe I do indeed
I know I have a presence that stays close by and has quite literally lifted me out of near death situations.
Try coming around a tight bend at 120kmph on a mountain road, no seat belt, drifting over the centre line into the path of an oncoming cattle truck and trailer. It was a left hand bend, I had slid to the right. Further right was a steep drop. I did literally see my life flash before my eyes. How could I end up with the car on its side snugly wedged into the mountain (on the left side) when I hadnt been able to make that left bend in the first place.
I walked away with a bruise on each hand between thumb and forefinger where I had gripped the wheel.
The truck driver was nearly beside himself...he said there was no way he could not have hit me.

The second time also involved a car on a straight stretch of highway about 5am when I was heading in to do the breakfast show on radio. The road was deserted and I was speeding, but travelling left of left (remember we travel on the left side of the road in NZ) I saw a sign up ahead and immediately the thought was placed in my mind that that sign should be on the other side of the road. Something made me pull to the right. Just as well really, another truck had broken an axle and had left no park light on and the tail of the flat deck was directly in my path. Had I travelled further on the line I was taking the top of my car would have been taken off.

Oh and then is the benevolent presence that lives in our home who only makes her presence felt when my husband is away. A woman's perfume that is not mine, just the barest hint of it in the air, heralds her arrival.

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

I have SEEN ghost; not once but a few times. I don't belive in ghost; They are just visual 'thing' that I can't explained.  ... but I have seen them;

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

Jian so you dont believe in anything you cant explain?

hmmmm so you can explain women?

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

There *might* be an element of brain chemistry and electronic stimulation to certain parts of the brain that make some of these (supposedly) occult, or "presence" and Deja Vus events appear real. OF course jheat and different climatic conditions also contribute to mirage and optical illusion. Neurologists have shown with stimulation to certain parts of the brain that feelings of a strong presence, and different paranormal sensations will be experienced. Thing is,  since SO MUCH of the brain area is unknown, how do we know about certain types of communication, and sensation ?


Jian,  You've studied animal behaviour (as have I to an extent).. How about "Twin" phenomenon ?  Identicle twins will often experience certain sensations and thoughts that NO other people can understand..  We call it paranormal,  but to them (and likely animals such as elephants that sense Tsunami, and service dogs that lay down to protect their master prior to seizure, (they can sense chemistry change and aura.. etc..) Twins go thru things others can't understand and discount as "paranormal" or Extra-sensory, and in essence these events ARE these things.... ESP, paranormal, just mean we currently don't know what's going on... Metaphysics is basically an abstract area that isn't covered by the traditional sciences,  just as certain artforms are "Esorteric" arts...  They are of a more spiritual form... BUT what is "the spirit" ?  To me it's really just emotion, but others break down humans into Body, Mind, and Soul... I don't know what "soul" really is, IMHO it's emotion.

I think the difference between Scientists, and those that "believe" without empircal evidence is that Scientists will say "There's a reason whether we understand or not".. Thing is,  I just say.... I dunno, so I dunno  LOL

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

In my field of work, which is ethnobiological research, I come across many 'stories', most, if not all, are exaggeration of a person interpretation of visual contact. This exaggeration and extrapulation is complicated by cultural background of such person.

Ghost, is just that; an extended exaggeration of a personal interpretation of 'things'.



but I have seen ghost

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

That's interesting Jian.  "Ghost" might seem far-fetched to some, however "metaphysics" is just a science area (of sorts) that deals with areas  traditional science has few answers for due to their level of abstraction... Cosmology for instance is an area that requires extensively sophisticated traditional science grounding first to even approach.. and in a sense it TRULY must be a type of science although NOT in the inductive sense of the word, because Metaphysics deals with "Causes of nature", and those things we can't yet easily measure, theories of existence and so on.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Metaphysic is NOT science, it is pseudo science, and of is Cosmology. They just have names that sound like its science.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

OK, would you buy that it's an area of Philosophy ?  

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Mythology, yes. .

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott