Karaoke Forums

back to topic kinda....when i sang it was 4 to 5 hrs a night 6 nights a wk...doing about 95% of the singing, my throat stayed shot, i had 1 day to get better, most times i did....only on 1 night was i ever 100%...and on that 1 night i didn't pace my voice and i let it all out....so the rest of the wk was down hill, plus i drank and smoked.    every day when i woke up i would think....nope can't sing tonight, i could barely talk...i hear some say that u should not talk just rest ur voice...that never worked for me....if i tryed not talking i could feel my voice going even more....talking somehow loosen up my vocal cords and i was ready by night time...ok as ready as i could be.....and most would say...oh u can't even tell ur hoarse, i could tell, sooooooooo would i get up hoarse? heck yea i would...100%? nope....but its all in fun now....its play timeeeee....  drinks r on    STEVEN ....

You are correct Billy, I guess I never recovered from "competition" and haven't evolved into the "karaoke" realm of "just for fun performing". Where NOONE cares or condescends, or perhaps "if they do WHO CARES", I guess obviously I do.. To me Karaoke is a vocal session training tool, I use it to try to learn how to sing. I suppose the mistake I'm making is I'm stuck on "If you are onstage, THAN you are displaying yourself as a performer". Yet what confuses me, is assuming most are doing it "just for fun" and don't care... Why do we see so much delusion among Singer's Showcase, and online venues ?  Aren't these a microcosm of actual Karaoke ?  Meaning that, don't most that perform THINK they are OK ?  Many do lie to them EVEN in bars... So if MOST don't care even in a karaoke setting, why do we commonly see behaviour such as "singers showcase" greed ?  This confuses me..
How different are clubs than Singer's Showcase ?  Yet in a club EVERYONE can believe they are a 9 or 10.. ?  How many that KNOW they are a 2 or 3 get up and perform or sing ?   I honestly don't know !!!

It's hard to explain Billy, yet here's a question I have...

If it's OK for most to be "average" and just have fun, and noone cares...  Why are people so consumed with "9" and "10" ranks in Singer's showcase ? or

How many are truly able to know ie.. "I'm a 3, but I'm going to perform/submit (in the case of SS) because it's just for fun" ?  I wonder how well Karaoke would do if most singing were performing artists in other realms, didn't drink, and heard how they sounded singing knowing they weren't very good".  Is Karaoke at clubs and bars really much different than Singer's Showcase ?  While most do it for fun, or say they are doing it for fun, do most know that IN REALITY they are pretty lousy, know they "suck" and don't care ? If-so THAT'S good !!! Than it's for fun...but how aware are these people of how they actually sound ?  Or perhaps as someone said, "You guys are analyzing this way too much"... Yet as a musician, I know what I don't know, I know what's decent sounding, I know where I don't belong, and I'm pretty sure I can't sing...

If Karaoke is just for fun, why do so many fantasize about being something they aren't, excellent singers ?  Why don't they settle for being a 3-7... What confuses me is that for people NOT to care about how they appear to others, that would indicate EGO isn't on the line, yet why are people that suck insisting on high "ranks", yet getting deluded by those giving them high ranks ?  How different is club Karaoke than say what we see in Singer's Showcase ?  Where it isn't up until "Simon time" that they learn how lousy they actually sounded to others ?


I don't disagree with Tim's perspective, or other's perspectives, in fact I like them. It just isn't something familiar to me. I suppose I'm sort've stuck back in the dog-eat-dog phase of competitive music, which is something I dreaded, and saw all too much of, and it scared the (@$%&#!) out've me because when people train hard, and put their life into their craft, there IS alot of ego invested, It's all some of us were able to do, we flunked out've the 9-5 business world, we were cut out to be in the arts, yet the problem is, SOME of us, didn't do well in competition, and really had a tough time with it. To me if it's music, and it's on-stage, it's an artistic performance EVEN if your backup is machinery.  I guess I never learned that it's OK to suck when performing even if it's just fun.. Maybe some day.  It'd probably be therapeutic, and healthy for everyone else to laugh their asses off too !

Yet do people commonly get up in from of a crowd already with an awareness that they are "lousy" singers ?  Or is what keeps Karaoke going alcohol induced feelings of "8" "9' and 10 talent ? Among those that really haven't for the most part ever heard how they sound, yet fortuneately they might not hear how they actually sound even if you play their recording back to them....life can be kind like that...

JUst wondering...

I'll submit myself to crossfire here because I really haven't a clue what I'm not understand about human psychology here... I don't feel most would get up on stage knowing they are really as lousy sounding as they are... So aren't clubs in certain ways like Singers Showcase ?  People just don't have a clue ?  and others don't care ?  Yet in reality, people DO hear how bad some sound, and do judge them even in bar settings ?  I'm confused  

Permission to make an (@$%&#!) out've oneself on stage is just something that I'm having a tough time comprehending  :O

Let me try to rephrase this:

New venue for you, you don't know the crowd listening. You follow a series of talented vocalists, even knowing "it Karaoke" would you have the guts to go in front of a new crowd "cold" knowing you were likely a 2-4 rank singer tops ? because even though people are strangers in the crowd "It's only Karaoke" ?
Is what many of us see, and don't like in Singer's Showcase, a microcosm of the psychology behind MOST Karaoke ?  Unreal self image ?  Yet in Karaoke, this is acceptable. It's a time for fantasy. Many singing think they are much better than they are perhaps ?

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Hi Kappy -
When I sing at the bar I have songs I know I do well, so people know I can sing.
If I mess up or are being silly during a song I don't care I guess because I know I've done well before. I don't use the singer's showcase. If I did it would be for people here to know I can sing not to better someone. Some people take their singing very seriously. There is nothing wrong with that, but there is a place and a time for that. The singer's showcase to some people is probably more serious to some than others.
I have people at karaoke who take it to serious and they get teased for it. I think it is ok to take your singing serious at karaoke, but to lighten up sometimes. If we are playing around doing scareoke don't worry if it isn't good. Everyone has heard that person sing well on a song they know. I'm sure even professional singers have their limits and don't sound great all the time.

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Yeah Bab's,  Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's WRONG to get up and sing if you aren't good at all, quite the contrary, sure it should be for fun.. It's fine to be a 3, and perform among 8's-10's too, I've been there... Yet it's understood..

I'm curious as to how similar real Karaoke is to what we see in Singer's Showcase.. Where all that might be realistic is what is said behind certain peoples backs, and in some cases praise.... THere IS some amazing talent.  Yet in Karaoke does a "2" rank KNOWING they are a "2" get up in front of a brand new crowd they've never met before ?  I can't imagine it...Maybe the mistake I'm making is viewing Karaoke as a "performance" at all... Yet isn't it ?

Here's an example, (at least in my mind )  I love to paint, and dabble with water colors, I'm aware this is an area I'm really really bad at.. and I give myself permission to suck and still do it.. Yet if there was a gallery, and most of the artwork was decent, OF COURSE I'd feel intimidated displaying my work next to better artists.  Wouldn't most people that were aware their artwork wasn't that good ?

Similarly if other vocalists are excellent,  I wouldn't feel I belonged among them. Just my quirky idea on how audiences often view things.  I'm not talking about a neighborhood bar where most already know one-another of course, and know what to expect... I'm talking singers going up COLD in front of a new audience for the first time !!

Maybe that's the difference, I didn't mention this earlier.... New bar, new crowd, you know you are a "2" ability vocalist, you don't know the crowd.... Would you have the gut's to go up in front of a new crowd assuming  you followed spectacular talent ? Not people that know you, and like you already. Fresh crowd !!

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Short answer:  Heck yeah, for me.  I know I'm not a spectacular singer overall...there are some songs I can do pretty well, but I'm no great talent...I'm an entusiastic singer, not deluded into thinking I can be a great one.  Karaoke for me is all about the good time...joining in the fun, and scratching my musical itch, as it were.

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[glow=white][scroll]Live, laugh, and love today--just in case tomorrow doesn't make it[/scroll][/glow]

Dave,  yet you stated "There are some songs you can do pretty well", and implied you know you are "OK"...  What if you couldn't sing, and knew that, yet liked singing. You wouldn't feel intimidated in front of a large new crowd because it's "just Karaoke"?   Assume on a scale of 1-10 you believed you were a 3.  Would you get up following 3 consecutive "9" rank performances feeling comfortable ?

If the answer is "Sure, I'd feel fine" that's great.  I'm not debating it. I'm trying to understand something that doesn't apply in my case, yet I'm not debating this, I'm trying to understand a psychology here,  most people DO have some sort've performance anxiety. I'm NOT taking alcohol into consideration here as "breaking" that... I'm trying to figure out something considering SOBER human nature, humiliation, and ego...

So, In my case,  I can't sing ANYTHING even average IMHO...I'm an honest 2-4 rank singer.  I don't drink. I could NEVER get up after great performances... I'd feel too ashamed !  Even though "It's only Karaoke".

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I can see your point there, Steven...I get a little more nervous doing one of the songs I AM good at in front of a new crowd.  

The closest I've come to this scenario though, I think, was a night when we went to a new place, and there was only an unfamiliar version of a song I do know.  It was my first song, I figured what the heck, how different can it be?  It was WAY different, and I proceeded to butcher the snot out of it.  But, I had another song in as soon as I got down...I was determined to do better.

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[glow=white][scroll]Live, laugh, and love today--just in case tomorrow doesn't make it[/scroll][/glow]

Dave, See this is the thing, one must read THIS example of what Don was alluding to. THis is how I interpretted it right off the bat. This is interesting however, Don didn't specify "Karaoke", those that sing Karaoke and since this is a karaoke venue appropriately assumed "singer" was singing Karaoke. That's not incorrect, HOWEVER those of us that have performed professionally live perceived this example from OUR life experience, thru OUR own eyes... and that is one of getting our butt handed to us by a fabulous prior act.... We all viewed this from our own range  of experiences... Billy covered both cases,  competition IS dog-eat-dog, yet in Karaoke which is meant to be fun, one SHOULD let their guard down and play along... (whether we can or not is a different story)



As a guitarist, I'd feel I just got my (@$%&#!) kicked, and that's NOT a good feeling !
Why should I assume a "singer" would feel differently ? Don set up a competitive scenerio !  I can't transcend it by feeling, "It's just Karaoke",  Don mentioned "crowd"... not small bar audience !  He also implied "I'm out've my league" whether I like it or not, I'm batting following someone that just hit a grand slam... THIS is every performer's NIGHTMARE who's trained to WIN !


I can understand how a person that feel's comfortable among a certain group wouldn't care about how good they are.. and I should've stated that right off.. I love to sing, and I suck... When I was in bands, they other members who I felt comfortable with couldn't play one-anothers instruments, yet it was fun to swap.... Yet still, I liked singing, it got to a point that I even thought I could sing, and mysteriously my microphone would keep disappearing   ..  So while I knew I wasn't a vocalist, I started to like singing, lost site of the fact I couldn't sing.. Yet I suppose the facts were, I wasn't meant to be singing in the band....

Now for some reason, as soon as I saw Don's message, this is how I did perceive it RIGHT OFF THE BAT

Don, do I at least make some sense to you who's performed professionally with a band ?   This can be earth shattering for a frontman ?  You setup a scenerio of "defeat". I'd get up to the microphone, and praise the prior spectacular act, explain that I can't possibly follow in such large shoes, ADMIT to it, and procede to perform doing the best I could, feeling quite humbled, and small realizing I was OUT of my league THIS time at least !   Not a good feeling for an artist !



I still need to learn how to compete Cindy. I was just thrown into the competitive environment without being prepared, or taught coping mechs.  It's an area I have bad probs with. Were you ever taught how to compete ?  How to enter a competition ?  Do they ever teach kid's these things ?   Maybe I'm a wuss, but I HATE losing.   Hence, I avoid competition.


.


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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

steven? i'm not a karaoke expert but, r is that butt? anywho....compareing singers showcase to karaoke isn't to hard to me....in karaoke there all 10s...same here...but we all know thats not true...in either place.....i think in karaoke its the fact that u can lay it on the line and get up there that earns u that 10...nothing more....good r bad....as seen on idol....most do feel they can sing and sing pretty good....my bro. who can't sing....ok 2 bro. who can't sing will have a few drinks and hop right up there....now they know they can't sing but to them its a blast, just haveing fun and going with the flow....

i always said if on this site the singers would put what they think they deserve on a song....no one would ever post a 10...i could be wrong tho...i know i wouldn't....i think a 10 on here is like telling a person ty for subbing ur song...if a person gets ...i enjoyed ur singing, r great job on that song....thats not a 10 response...a 10 is WOWWWWW... r...OMGGGGGGG.....as it should be.... so i think u can compare 1 to the other...both r relaxed and both r for fun....but in both cases some do take it more serious...up to the person i guess...

and yes i think u falling on ur face and laughing at urself would do u a world of good...then u will realize it is all in fun....no one gets hurt if u have the right attitude... if i screw up i laugh its no biggie...just fun....JMO.....now go fall down

interesting steven....i reallyyyy hate loseing to, thats why i enter contest....to not enter at all to me is loseing....like they say....sometimes when u lose you win....

Good points Billy.  I did sink to a level after time where fear of striking out kept me from stepping up to bat to even "play".  Things are probably different now anyway than they were when we were younger in THIS area too (meaning musicianship).... Younger folks are likely more viciously competitive, perhaps as we age we mellow, and others that are older mellow too. I haven't been in a live setting with middle-aged musicians in quite sometime...Harford became REALLY unsafe at night around the blues and jazz clubs, most shut down, last time I went I got my car "keyed" down both sides....HEHE, at least I didn't get shot....and I haven't hit New Haven in years...but that's not close.



Can you explain this please ? I don't follow. I understand how to not enter at all for fear of losing can't ever win in a competitive setting, so in some ways it's succumbing to self imposed defeat ? yet in what way do you "win" when you lose in this respect ? Or is the realization that you can survive not winning, and returning to try again "winning" ?   Not letting the presence of someone who performs better than you, wipe you out, or defeat you pscychologically perhaps ? I never thought of this angle til just now

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

(interesting steven....i reallyyyy hate loseing to, thats why i enter contest....to not enter at all to me is loseing....like they say....sometimes when u lose you win....)

i hate loseing buttttt i love winning more....



(sometimes when u lose you win....)

lets say ur playing ball with ur kid....u let him win....u lose but in the end u really won.....because u see the smile it put on HIS face by winning....so by loseing u really did win...

steven do u like winning?  u stand no chance at winning unless u enter....and lets say u loveddddddd to sing...but u never got up to sing, scared u would lose somehow....in the big pic. ur really loseing out, ur cheating urself out of something u lose tro do, because ur scare of failing r loseing....to me you lost....

thatr make sense?  lolll

This has made me think a little.
Okay this is going to sound egotistical.
I don't know if I would sing karaoke if I didn't know I was good.
I tend to do things I know I can do well. I guess I don't care if I
follow a good singer because I can hold my own.
When I'm running a karaoke show I love when people are just having a good time singing and don't care they can't really sing well. I don't even know half
the time if they know how bad they sound. But could I do it if I knew I sounded that bad- I don't know. Some people don't sing well, but are very entertaining. A lot of the
time I think people enjoy that more. Than a great singer who thinks there all that.
Look at Bruce springstein - not the best singer, but a wonderful song writer and entertainer.

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[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

That's my point Bab's I suppose.  If I could clone Springsteen, I'd not get up and sing... Same with Dylan... I couldn't do it.. I admire them as poet's and songwriters, they ARE among the best !  Yet I'd be on the phone with a vocalist to sing my lyrics if I were them.  Dylan should've let the Byrd's sing ALL his stuff.. Springsteen should've handed his stuff over to Huey Lewis. Yet like was said earlier, it's not how good they actually are, it's what the public thinks, and their voice timbre, and vocal ability (or lack of) hasn't hindered album sales, so I'm obviously missing something here.....This is just my opinion. Some people think Springsteen is absolutely spectacular, I don't get it, some will practically lynch those that dis EVEN Bob Dylan's singing voice...I don't get that either  :shock:, these artists have quite a loyal following !!   


Here's another thing I don't understand, David Bowie has a gorgeous voice, he's amazingly talented... Why he decided on his signature style raunchy rock voice I haven't a clue.. Have you ever heard him sing "little Drummer Boy" ?  That guy has a gorgeous voice, he really IS a brilliant musician, yet the voice he decided to become well known for I'd never have had the ______ to make public either... Like his voice on "young americans", what's with that (@$%&#!)..... .. OK, again, I don't get it...

Yet it just goes to show,  I haven't a clue what the public likes... What I find "conventionally" talented pop vocals is just subjective... It's what "I find conventionally talented"... It's not fact, and likely won't be correct in 30 years...styles will have evolved to something else.... THis is all totally subjective... Which is good because maybe there's hope for both me and Jian yet  

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I wish I had gotten in on this thread much earlier. Steven, you've given me a lot to think about. I haven't visited the Singer's Showcase, yet, (only been here a few days), but I think there is a big difference between the SS and your typical karaoke show. I've never heard any of my friends say "Hey let's go to So-and-so's Karaoke show. There's gonna be a lot of really good singers there." For most people (us 2's, 3's, 4's, and 5's), we don't go to karaoke to impress the crowd; we go there because we like to sing. Yes, most of us probably do think we're better than we really are, but most of us don't think were one of the best singers, either. We enjoy seeing the poor and average singers just as much as the really gifted singers, sometimes more. I'm guessing most of the people in the Singers forum believe they are pretty good singers, or they wouldn't submit their songs to public critique. The great thing about karaoke is that, good performance or bad, once it's over it's gone forever. Yeah, people might think "that sucked" but their opinions are quickly forgotten once the next singer gets up there. On the internet, a song is there forever to be analyzed, criticized, disected and picked apart, ad nauseum. I would tend to think that most of the singers who submit songs on this site, either think they are, or want to be, better than average singers. Of course they would take it more seriously than your average karaoke singer.

I would much rather see an average live band than a really good karaoke singer, but on the other hand, I'm gonna be far more critical of a band than I would be an individual karaoke performance. The context is different. While we might be blown away by one singers ability, the level of talent is not why we go to a karaoke show. If a band sucks, you're gonna be dissapointed. If a karaoke singer sucks, you still might be entertained by his courage to get up there and and do what he loves to do, or just by the spactacle of seeing a really bad singer make a fool of himself - and still be able to laugh it off.

Even though I live in a fairly small town we have some very good talent here. And, somehow, I always seem to follow the best singer in the house. I don't care. I hope I entertain the crowd, but even if I don't, I still entertain myself.

You seem to think, "if you can't sing well, why get up there at all? Why make a fool of yourself?" We average and weak singers don't see it that way. It's fun to get up there and be the center of attention, even when you're scared to death, and you don't have much talent. You still get to be a rock star for 4 or 5 minutes. And isn't that everybody's fantasy?

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[highlight=purple]The Truth is out there. ... Way, way out there![/highlight]

Took the words right off my Keyboard (except for Cousin Brucie)

Zacry what I was thinking this whole thread all summed up and I didnt even Have to type it.

here here!!!  as a kj it drives me insane when someone wnats to change thier song just before they're suppose to sing.  it interrupts the flow of the show.  plus i always stick by my motto.....if we were really that good, we'd have recording contracts.  i sing because i like to sing, not so people will listen to me.  i could not care less if i had to follow george strait, frank sinatra and ella fitzgerald.

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All work and no play make Homer something something

I guess I could see how it could be a bit of an interruption if someone changed their song every rotation. But I know when I fill in for my bf's mom's karaoke biz at the bar their cds are in a super accessible suitcase-like carry-along, so it takes no time at all to find the disk and put it in. Especially for a regular. And I don't quite agree with the whole "if we were really that good, we'd have recording contracts" thing. There are a ton of unsigned artists who are amazing and just don't have the connections, the money, the drive, and/or the time to get a recording contract.

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i understand it takes the desire, money, and talent plus a bit of luck to make it.  most karaoke singers aren't looking to be stars.  they'rs only looking to have a good time and not be ridiculed regardless if the have ability.  as for the continuity or flow of a show, let me clarify.  i have the song cued when the singer approaches the stage.  if they lean over as they pass by me and say "hey, change it to...."  i immediately go back into my buffer music as a replace the orignial song with the new one.  i don't mind it too much once i awhile either, but you'll find that there are some singers that do it consistantly.

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All work and no play make Homer something something

Change up the song - had this very thing happen to me last week.  Very thin rotation, did 18 songs in 3 hours -- my voice was FRIED.  Need to work on projection and singing from the diagphram again

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Despite the internet rumor, Karaoke is not Japanese for "drunk buffoon with microphone."  However, "rotation," is Japanese for wait your damn turn!