Karaoke Forums

My point exactly!!!I have done that.  Use my Sure SM58s thrs night, and on friday night, use the Samson R12.  No one noticed.
Yes I mix for each individual singer.  I too hate it when the KJ just walks away.  Might as well use a juke box then.

I'm curious about these Samson mics now.  Couldn't hurt to have an extra mic around the home studio.



Wow, it's good to hear that KJ's seem to take the time out to adjust for each singer too.

I still don't believe Eric Johnson can tell the brand of 9V battery being used in his stomp boxes by the sound he get's out've his amp.. Yet 5 years ago I was able to tell differences between tube guitar amps, and SS guitar amps when opened up...yet there were only a limited number being used of course...Thru a Marshall JCM-900 cranked thru a 2x12 smaller cab, it's VERY hard if not impossible to tell the difference in sound between a stock telecaster tweaked with tone rolled back, and a Les Paul standard. Telecaster can be amazingly versatile if the player knows how to use the guitar.... this surprized me.... Quality of sound thru any microphone of course depends on result of ALL equipment being used, and even room setup, and singer.....  Any microphone can be made to sound lousy, and depending on setup, lesser quality microphones might sound great.... The sound comes out've the speakers and travels in the air before hitting the ear..... Alot matters when using a microphone....

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Everyone knows how crappy it sounds singing through one of the machines with the echo.   I would rather sit home and sing through the machine than go to any of the local karaokes.   I'll sound like crap and suck at home, not in public.    I don't do anything half a**ed.    GOD forbid, you would ever need emergancy brain sugery and you're lucky enough to get stuck with the guy that was last in his class, majored in beer bashes, skipped the hands-on and wants to do it just for the money, because the one that graduated top of the class, did it because he wanted to make a difference, studied everynight and improves himself in every way because he cared, was out golfing.    That's if you do not have a choice, but if you did who would you pick?    Like you said, in the middle of a cow pasture I guess it don't matter.   I did it because it matters to me.  I enjoy it when people that don't sing can tell they are hearing something better than the rest.    I mix everyone.    I make everyone sound as close to what you remember hearing on the radio, as possible.    A lot of KJs couldn't mix a cup-of-noodles.    They just play it and that's it.   The majority of them only know on and off.    I have heard about KJs that make themself sound good and everyone else sound like crap.   They wanted to be the best singer.   And if you were they made sure you weren't.   Make everyone mad so they don't come back.   It will help your reputation.   I want to build a big crowd for the bar owner, not chase it away.  A crowded bar helps my reputaion.   Making everyone sound good helps my reputation.    Can you say for sure that you don't get all the jobs you go after because of your sound?    There are only two things that screw up a wedding, people complain about the bad food or a bad DJ.   I know that if a bar owner comes to hear me as a tryout, I'll never lose a job because of my sound.   I might lose it because he doesn't want to pay for my quality.   If he doesn't respect his business enough to realize that quality sells.   That's on him.   He knows what top shelf liquor is, he knows a steak from steakums.   Like I said before.   Nobody says "Lets go to So & So's because the KJ sux or the food sux or the drinks suck.    People want to spend their money on quality.

Even Badsinger can tell the different between bad sound and good sound; in many cases they just keep it to himself and not bothered to complaint

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

My own feeling is this isn't black or white.  Many places I'll never bring my highest end equipment too, because it might not be wise. People steal $600 microphones, and without insurance that will cover me on the road.. I'll settle for the mediocre Shure SM-48 I paid 30 dollars for used getting stolen.. The best microphone will be saved for appropriate times because not being made of money, some things aren't always appropriate, and between the ALL or NONE (best fs crappy) equipment scenario, there're principles of diminishing returns... Certain layouts just don't need the highest end equipment... If people aren't going to hear much of a difference because of small and lousy layout.  the best equipment will get saved for a later day... All depends... Personally I'd not want a $600 microphone unless I had an acoustically prepared room with likely a $6000 PA, and even for certain styles, this wouldn't be the best sounding equipment...There's always diminishing returns... It's not always practical to bring the best you have, similarly the most expensive equipment is not always the best sounding. My feeling's regarding this conversation is that the wisest (financially limited-meaning often strapped) performer know's how to use what he has, and he uses what's sufficient; He also spends his money appropriately distributing it where he needs to...

While I'm proud of what I've collected, I get more utility out've hanging onto it, as opposed to showing it off, and advertising what I have to the wrong greedy eyes....My best guitars stay home.. Flaunt a nice headstock on a guitar, I better not turn my back to it in a crowded venue.... I'd rather play the mediocre guitar, and put "Hecho en Biafra" decals on the Vox AC-30... That way it will still sound good, yet fewer will be overly zealous to make it theirs.... Yet the Soldano will stay home in most cases... As will the vintage irreplaceable equipment... It's never all or none for me anymore... Given a choice I'll spend my money on decent, and higher end.... Seldom on :state of the art:... AND In so many cases given MY income now-adays... the best IS superfluous... A couple good microphones offering a variety of decent sounds will get purchased by me... The $600 for the microphone will be dollars spent on an amp and speaker cab prior to a VERY high end microphone purchase, assuming I have such luxury, THAT microphone will NOT be handed to just anyone that comes up to sing.. People drop things.. ..AND personally, I doubt many can tell the difference between the Shure Beta microphones and the $600 overkill microphone in a bar layout in most cases... My guess is even fewer know how to set up a room to maximize the sound that will justify even taking such a microphone out assuming you are lucky enough to have the disposable income to buy one in the first place...

I live in grey now.... Black or White drove me to where I am now...NUTS


JMO..  It's how I do things... different strokes

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I really enjoyed reading the posts. A lot of good points!
It isn't black or white---
I don't think 90% of my crowd would noticed the difference between
good and bad. I use $100 mics because my crowd is rough. They drop them,
swing them around etc.. I do have a very expensive cordless I barely use,
unless I'm doing a private gig.
I was using an old yorkville powered mixer for a while and then bought a brand
new Mackie. Wow what a difference. When I set the eq I could actually tell I did something. No one noticed I had better sound, but me.
I want to listen to better sound. I work 3 nights week and listening to a better system is wonderful.

Oh you hit on one of my biggest pet peeves - a KJ that doesn't set the system for each singer. My bar is small with a tin roof. I am constantly adjusting for good sound and no feed back. I know people have no clue how hard I work to make them sound better. But i would know. Besides I enjoy making people sound their best.

If I could afford it and carry it, I would have the best equipment possible. My system is comprised of the best possible with my budget and strength.

I think a lot of it comes down to where you work. I'm not doing the Taj Mahal with a sober calm crowd.

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[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

I'd be willing to bet that more people DID notice the improved sound but haven't said anything.  
I just went through a major upgrade last year, new amps, processors & the sound was dramatically improved & the singers did notice.  SOme of them came & told me, most of them didn't but when I went down to bs with them, they asked what was different that they sounded much better.  I don't get the better equipment for the singers - although they will ultimately benefit from it most, I get the equipment for me to be able to give the best sound I can.  Also I wouldn't want to listen to crappy sound night after night either, plus being used every night in a smokey bar, I need to make sure the equipment is going to be durable enough without having to go in the shop or be replaced every year....
As far as mics, I would never get an expensive mic, my SM58's sound great & have lasted me since 94 even after being thoroughly abused over the years, only mic I have lost to date at a show was a Peavey PVM80 that was dropped 4 times.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I think many notice differences between good and bad, yet I feel between bad and "best", there's "good enough".  That's what I was referring to in terms of this not being all or none.. "decent" is what I can afford...If it's "spectacular" I'd never allow it to get abused... I don't have that type money...although I do like to share spectacular when appropriate.. Certain bar's wouldn't be appropriate. Certain private parties would be..

Money wasn't always a concern to me, yet I was never the type who believed it important to "show off"... Meaning certain things just aren't practical. I think the $100 microphone is perfect for MOST venues, If the $800 tube microphone really sounded that spectacular in comparison it would of course be a "consideration", yet I have problems with risking my "best" getting abused, or knocked around.....Granted there are exceptions, and I suppose in some cases I would take a risk even at a bar. In the old days, my best sports jackets, and leather coats wouldn't get exposed to drunken folks with cigarette's after the first few times I noticed burn holes in my stuff... Stolen Horizon, and Monster cables, microphones and boom stands...you name it, it's grown leg's at bars in my past too.... If I have a luxury item, it won't go to a crowded bar... Just my own feelings. It's unnecessary risk

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I'd like to add an opinion on the "wannabe's" or "unprofessional undercutters" many of you loathe.  In the 70's bands lost ALOT of jobs to MANY "hack" DJ's during that time period. They were starting, part timers, it wasn't a profession for them "at that point in their lives", they found a means of supplementing school expenses, and being in an environment they got something out've...The bar owners LIKED the fact that they could save money...WE couldn't afford to provide horn-bands playing funk to the bar for nearly as little money...Did we HATE these kids who seldom at the beginning had a clue what they were doing sound-wise or what we deemed quality or professional-wise ?  WE HAD NO CONTROL OF THAT... It happens !

Towards the end of EVERY area of entertainments cycle, such as fad's... something else comes along, or something lesser replaces us...In this particular case, most bar's are in a squeeze they weren't in 10-30 years ago.. They don't have comparable funds to spend on entertainment.. (0f course the huge ones likely do)

If I have a tough time surviving in a market for whatever reason however, it seems useless, and makes me appear as a bad sport if I "Blame my competition"..and if I feel the "hack fools" aren't competition, I really had no choice as to why the idiot bar owner that let me go decided to do-so, yet it happened to we live musicians AGES ago... Other than say "Oh well", It's wasted non-productive energy to damn what is... yet it's time to move on !   Large bands had to disband because smaller "hacks" showed up with their "band in a box"... Smaller bands were out've work because "Joe Cousin" had a turntable and PA (of sorts), his Cousin the Bar Owner LIKED THAT... It takes TWO !! Years later DJ'ing became more competitive, New York clubs hired THE BEST... There of course weren't many of "The best"....In time THEY TOO lost jobs to a new trend...

That's life... Business sucks... we won't change that...  Why hate it ?  we have NO control over certain things.. There's no blame... It's how things work... We have no control of who our competition will be, and ALOT of the time they DO suck in our opinion. Yet to someone else obviously they are good enough. In my location AT LEAST 2/3rd's of the bars that had entertainment 15 years ago either have none, or no longer exist.. Initially I thought they didn't want me...Turned out, It wasn't about me.. Thing's were changing I had no control of.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

That kinda sums it up.  I may not have the most expensive setup, nor the most powerful setup, but I still want good clean quality sound.  

I have had good luck with the Peavey PVM22 wired mic's (only had to replace a cord from being walked on..), in addition to my Audio Technica 600 wireless.

Kinda nice at a recent private event to have a couple of folks tell me how good the music sounded, and wanted to see what kind of amp, etc. I was using.  Found out then that they are musicians in a band, which accounts for why they never used the TV monitor for their songs....

Very true - I'm sure if I walked in now with a low quality system they would notice the difference. Let's face it no one wants to sound like their voice is in the bottom of a trash can.  LMAO  My people are used to hearing a certain sound because that is what they know. If I started out with a great system then brought in bad I'm sure they would notice. But if I make small upgrades to better the sound they don't notice
as much.

The funny thing is the comments I got were "I sound horrible". The reason was they could hear themselves better.  When I upped my power I was able to run the
monitor louder and clearer. Some people are better off not hearing themselves sing.

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[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

I do agree - I upgrade more for myself also. I love new toys.

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[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

Agreed, There've been plenty of times in life that the ONLY thing I looked forward to during a specific time period was waiting to hear a UPS truck pull up with my new toy...

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

But I try to,  I'm cool like that !   Plus, it's the only life I have.. What else is there to do ?

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Oh Kappy - your not the only one.

It is nice to be passionate about something - it isn't a bad thing.

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[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

I purchase the higher quality equipment because I can hear the difference. I have had many comments from singers that they sound much better on my system than others in the area. Those comments are unsolicited and are very much appreciated.

I think that only a small percentage really are listening for the difference and others may notice but not say anything. 90% may be close to accurate figure on those who dont care, but I'm purchasing the good stuff for myself and the 10% who do appreciate the difference.

No matter what business, hobby, or sport I get involved in I have always researched and purchased the best equipment that fits my budget that is available and have never been dissatisfied.

If Big Dog can afford to be replacing the $600 mics when they get abused then I think that is his choice and I commend him for his commitment to quality. That is what is great about being a business owner .....you can do it your way.

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FlipSide Karaoke
Scott

Don - in response to the mixing question this is one of my pet peeves

Once a song starts I'm with the singer for at least the first 15-20 seconds of the song to adjust mic/music volume, mic effects, and EQ. I do this for every singer. I keep eye contact with them during this time just in case they need to communicate with me.

I will stay with them throughout the song while I'm doing other tasks and keep my ear tuned and make adjustments if needed throughout the song.

I have been into many bars here in the area and about 1/2 of the KJ's put you up and forget you are there. This drives me crazy!!!  They don't even get a decent mic to music volume adjust. I do not stay very long and we are off to the next place.

Don't get me wrong there are some great places to go for good to excellent mixing here in the area as well but they are usually hit and miss to find them.

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FlipSide Karaoke
Scott

Well, I'd say you're doing a great job then!  I just can't figure out what some KJ's are thinking sometimes when they walk away from the singer and the vocal to music balance isn't even close.  Is it that they themselves can't hear the problem or are they just not paying attention?

I think they realy can't hear it themselves.  I know a couple of my competiors, that hardy ever walk away from the mixer, and it still sounds like you are singing in a cardboard box.