Karaoke Forums

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[scroll][glow=deepskyblue]????HAVE YOU HEARD THE PIXIES SING????[/glow][/scroll]

I think I said the version was Sound Choice...



I think you missed my point again. We can find reasoning on the other side of it, yours is pretty far fetched. I have hundreds of people bringing me "Singing Machine" disks...just the other day I had a guy bring his little cassette Karaoke player in and  said he wanted to use it because he sounded funny on my sound system. Sorry man you are way of base here and reaching...you missed my point entirely.

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That was a broadcasted statement so it was directed AT ALL OF US----LONNIE INCLUDED.

If a KJ does not make provisions for singers who bring their own discs--its simply laziness or cheapness a simple single disc cdg player will suffice.

I ALWAYS bring my own discs. Storebought. As only A VERY VERY FEW KJ's keep ANY of the songs I like to sing(really obscure blues, swing or steely dan songs on lables most dont carry).

As to VERSIONS and book lableling,  if you are used to a certain brand of song ----it makes it VERY DIFFICULT to sing another version properly--like trying a new vocal arrangement cold with no rehearsal its especially annoying getting up expecting your favorite version and then some other version popping up. So u end up with a less than satisfying singing expereince.

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

Gees I was using a generalization, not YOUR particular copy.  Maybe you missed the point I was trying to make.



You have people bringing in their own discs, yet you stated that you don't allow people to bring in their own discs?  Yeah I guess I missed something, your point is not really coming through.  I don't think I am missing any point, you want people to sing from your selection only - period.  No leeway on their personal comfort zone, if they can't sing your version - tough, it's ONLY karaoke.
Well I guess I take my karaoke a little more serious as do our customers that prefer certain versions.  Maybe they come to my shows because they don't know what versions they are singing at other shows????  I know I get complaints to that effect often enough - so & so's book DIDN'T EVEN LIST NUMBERS?

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First of all, home singers buy songs that they want, and they practice them at home. An affordable karaoke machine can be bought for $40, you can rip them on your computer and not use a machine at all... My lady does this... she won't do a song cold unless she practices it. She's tried going into shows, knowing the Pioneer version of say REO Speedwagon "Take It On The Run", and hearing the SC version, it throws her off. Whether it's in a different key is irregardless... it's a different version. Some she's done okay with, others, without hearing the specific beat and notes she's used to, it freaks her out.

And that's a NON-PRO...

I've gone to other shows and done their version of "Never Again", only to see the dreaded Star Disc flippin' logo come up... it totally blew chuncks! I've tried a Toby Keith song that I knew well at home, only to screw it up due to the Chartbuster version was totally different than I was used to.

I'll say that I totally believe the SC Billy Joel songs are far superior to their Backstage cousins... but I've had one regular that INSISTED on that disc... because it's what he knew, and he's practiced to.

Ultimately, it's NOT up to the likes of YOU Dennis, or ME... it's the customers, and what THEY want.

And you're right... it IS only karaoke. But that experience is different for ALL the users. If we were only dealing with one karaoke manufacturer, we really wouldn't be dealing with this issua at all, huh?

You as a pro musician may feel that the DK versions are more like the original... I disagree, where the keys' that they're recorded in are sometimes different. Lonnie spoke on this. And I'd rather play the SC version without having to TWEAK the system to get rid of the flute melody (and sometimes, you just can't!)... those musicians made that song to be played a certain way...

Just like when I go to a show and see their eq set up with a lovely digital SMILE... Jeez, dude, bring up the bass and the treble, and killl the midrange... yeah, good mixing job THAT is!

Well said Matt

There are pros and cons to playing customer's discs. The upside, you are catering to the people who look for that type of thing thus increasing your crowd size. On a given night I can have 1 - 5 people that want me to use their discs for every song they sing and yes I've been told the reason they like coming to my show is they can do this.

The downside, their discs are in horrible shape and it makes the appearance that my equipment is faulty. Their discs are cheap song versions and people think I have poor song versions not realizing they are the customers, not mine. This is a risk I'm willing to take to please everyone though.

A pet peave of mine is people who bring in discs for songs I already have in the exact same version.

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By the way before someone says it -

You don't know if a disc is in good quality until you play it. I don't care how many times you ask they all will tell you their discs are fine ahead of time. And yes you can announce you are using the customers disc not yours.

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What's the topic here? Oh right, bringing your own cd's or singing outta the books. (which may or may not have manuf info listed)

I pack a cdg case around with me usually everywhere I go. Mainly because there are a LOT of songs I do (mostly bluegrass, but some other obscure stuff too that most places wont have... like some of my favorite Emmylou songs) But also, I usually get stuck on a single version of a song. Some versions wont have a cool fiddle part that another one will or something like that... and I just like to sing what I personally consider the best version.

But, some nights .... I wont take my disks. Some places I've been to have no manuf info listed in the books, and it's just a gamble wether or not I'll like the version. If not, well, then I know for the next time. But... it's only karaoke... it's not a "do or die" situation. I'll sing the song anyhow, trying different versions hasn't killed anyone (so far as I know)

I think we, here, are a bit pickier than your "average karaoke crowd". To my knowledge,  most all of us here have been doing this for years, and all have home setups. So we know about "different versions", and usually have songs practiced up before EVER singing them out live. But, your "average karaoke singer"... it's a whole different story. Every dang song they try for the first time is out live, and they have NO clue about the version or what's good or bad.... we've gotten too spoiled people!!

.

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Oh, and to add in:

I personally like KJ's who will let me play my own stuff, but I have been to a few that wouldn't... and I take no offense in that. I mean, they all have their own rules, and if you're attending their venue, you follow those rules. That's not to say I'd frequent that place as often, but I would take it with a grain of salt for the night I was there.

(and... don't hate me... to this day, my BIGGEST turn off, no matter WHAT the other rules of the KJ... is gol' daymd filler music)  LMAO

.

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

Someone is finally getting the message. And the next guy wants to use his microphone, because yours doesn't sound good to him.

Are we to be expected to stop the show for your scracthed disc, or buy you a new one when you complain that we damaged your disk? This happened to me, and that is when I quit allowing disks. I also did not want to play burns, like I said before, and for the reasons I gave.

If I run my shifted MP3+G's, and I carry my disks with me, it's my risk. If I play your burned disk and you don't have the original, you are putting me at risk. Can't be any clearer than that.

I understand all the points you guys are making. Thing is I don't think your making an effort to understand mine. I didn't want to turn this into a battle. I really have good reasons for why I do things the way I do, you all just don't agree. I think, that much of what I've said you all understand.

I don't like it when I make a comment in good faith and people rip me because I don't agree with the way they think it should be...makes my fangs come out. There are many different ways to do things, Diversity should be welcomed, not attacked.

Sorry, I'm off my soapbox...except for this:

[glow=darkorchid]DK RULES![/glow]

Here here.  I second what Charmin says. It's their rules, their show. I don't get all mad if I can't use my own disks, but do get a little irked if the song choice sucks. And that filler/dance music,  :madgo: GRRR!!! That's one of the few things that will send me and my $$ out the door.

Girl after my own heart, Charmin. I knew there was a reason I liked ya. Oh, plus you're hot.

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But it shouldn't matter of the quality if THAT is what the customer wants.  Like Matt said, people have brought in horrid versions of songs that we had MUCH better versions, but they wanted the version they are comfortable with & nothing else.  And yes always announce a customers disc especially for the fact that if it skips, it's not your discs doing so - but then I won't play any dirty disc or overly scratched discs.

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Have had that too - though not as often, takes no more than a second or two to switch out the mic, even had a guy bring in his own wireless set-up, had a guy bring in a recorder to hook up once, I told him not that night, but if he brought it in the next night before the show & would be able to set it up .  
Guess I spoil my customers too much.  They are the reason why I am in business in the first place so I give them alot in return.



I won't play overly scratched discs or dirty discs until cleaned - although I will clean them usually before I play them anyway.  It's also stated very clearly at the booth Lonman nor the club will be held responsible for any lost, stolen, damaged, etc discs & you are responsible to collect them after the song is over.   Any disc left in our possession for more than 30 days becomes the property of Lonman.
Never had a complaint in 15 years about me damaging a disc, did have one gal that wouldn't clean her disc & wouldn't allow me to clean her disc (drefused to play it), didn't really matter I did have the same disc as well so I agreed & just played my disc, but I also have special disc holders so they don't just lay on tables with no jewel cases or something.  
Playing burns is another story and I fully understand a kj position on that, but an original shouldn't be an issue.  Now however if a kj is computerized & refuses burns - that is kind of hypocritical.



Again, that stance I can live with, I don't follow it personally, any disc is fair game here.  Still have people that bring in personal laser discs - mainly because I am about the only one in town that still plays them & I gained several new customers when the competition dropped their laser capability.  Had a VCD a couple times, never had anyone bring in a dvd yet.



Actually no I don't really understand, but this isn't a battle, it's a debate.  You show your side, i'll show mine.  Points/counterpoints.  I have good reasons why I do mine as well & will try and explain the best I can.  We don't have to agree - it's your show, it's my show, we run them the best we see fit.  Some will agree with you or me & disagree the same - as has been demonstrated.



Don't feel attacked, it's nothing personal - can't take the internet forums personally, it's a great way to vent without actually having to get into someone face for real!



yeah ok!

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You are talking like full length songs in between singers?  Not just a snippet to break up dead air & keep a flow going until the next singer is up & ready?  
I hate the first, I do the second.  Usually no more than 10-15 seconds, just underlying while I ask for the applause, call up the next singer, a quick bar announcement & then it's faded out once the next singer is on stage.

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Its nice to have pride in your successful show.

But unfortunately you come off sounding like one of the most ARROGANT KJ's I've encountered!!

If I happened upon your show and looked through your selection and found that you dont have what I like to sing, I would then probly sing your version and not (@$%&#!) about it at the time. But I WOULD NOT BE BACK. Finding that you either arent able to or refuse to play my store-bought cdg's.... I wouldnt be back.

Your whole tone is MY WAY OR THE HI-WAY. Certainly not someone's show I would care to visit and certainly not return to.

Maybe in your town people have no alternative but to go to your show--so it would be deemed "BEST" but where I am there are MANY others litteraly 10 minutes down the street.  Almost to the point of being a DIME A DOZEN.

If you want the BEST place to visit and most enjoyable Karoake show to visit, there are two I reccomend:

#1 Lonnie's show in Tacoma, Wa at the T-Bird Trading Post. I would gladly hop in
the car and drive the 150 miles to go hang out at his show.

#2 Danny Chavez's show either at New Pheonix Casino at La Center, Wa or at The C & I Tavern in Tualatin Ore.

Either of these two KJ's will BEND OVER BACKWARDS to ensure that THE CUSTOMER COMES FIRST and NOT THE KJ'S EGO.  There selections are very strong and if they dont have it they will see about getting it for they're collection or allow u to use your own disc that you bring.

THIER FOCUS IS ON THE SINGER's WANTS AND NEEDS NOT THE KJ'S EGO-CENTRIC ATTITUDE-----SOMETHING YOU SHOULD TAKE NOTE OF.

Oh and by the way--I DO KNOW what I'm talking about as I write Karaoke Review feature articles for 3 west coast Karaoke-related entertainment magazines--KS included. So I see the best, the worst and all the in-between.

If you have questions about the concept feel free to PM, EMAIL or call me direct.

Kurt "Swingcat" Johnson
503-757-5263
Portland, Oregon

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

This is the truth...... ....when I burn a cd, I try it out on my vocopro single disk player.....if it will play well on that player.....it sure as he!! better play like a champ on your player..... ....

One of the other reasons I won't play peoples disks, is that it turns off the other customers, and the "edgers", they see someone hand me a disk, and they get up and walk out, because they are up against pros.

This is friggin Karaoke people!

It is not fun for the other people when you upstage them. Sing from the book like everyone else.

This all kinda makes me wonder if I'm annoying the kj where I go?
I always bring my own discs. Mainly because I know for a fact that she doesn't have what I'm wanting to sing.
And why would I have my own store bought discs to begin with?

I started this thing at Karaoke Scene a year or so ago, and I sing and record my karaoke songs my way regardless of mixing ability or how the end product sounds to others. That's why I need discs. I sing from a stand alone player.

I never realized that other singers at a show would view that as arrogant or attempted upstaging?
I've never been discouraged by the kj to use my discs?
It kinda gives her a chance to also hear something that hasn't been done before at her show.
I will admit though, the time that I brought a burned disc without screen words might've made me seem arrogant.
But that was the only way I could've tried the song.

Hell, nowadays, I'm even beginning to wonder why I keep clinging to this karaoke thing??
I'm not all that great, it gives me tremendous stress trying to perform, and makes me feel like an idiot most of the time.
And besides, I hate using the f'ing Polident before going out to sing.
But could you imagine watching teeth flying when a high note is being wrestled?
I'd have to go home and kill myself then.  :wave:

I have been in small bars all over Europe Sang with the local talent Same with several mariachi bands in Mexico. Off key  many times. But I adapted. Same with many karaoke shows. I can sing whatever version they have.

I have a system that makes any version sound good I can change keys.. If a singer is that particular about a certain brand then he better have his own version and it wont be long we will want it on a flash drive.

A singer sings. I can sing with any band and they dont have to adapt to me.  If you can only sing to one version then you need to back off and re-evalauate your talents. If you are that worried about sounding good every time then you are at your peak and will never improve anymore. Get out of your rut and accept some new challenges.

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[highlight=darkorchid]SwingcatKurt wrote:

Its nice to have pride in your successful show.

But unfortunately you come off sounding like one of the most ARROGANT KJ's I've encountered!! [/highlight]

I can see where you would get that impression. It's hard to defend your position without sounding arrogant.

[highlight=darkorchid]Your whole tone is MY WAY OR THE HI-WAY. Certainly not someone's show I would care to visit and certainly not return to.

Maybe in your town people have no alternative but to go to your show--so it would be deemed "BEST" but where I am there are MANY others litteraly 10 minutes down the street.  Almost to the point of being a DIME A DOZEN. [/highlight]

I run my show in two locations. One at a resort in northern Minnesota and the other in the Twin Cities of Mpls and St. Paul. In the Twin Cities there are literally hundred of Karaoke shows. There are 3 within 5 minutes of where I am. I have singers that go between the shows, and they all end up at mine. They tell me it's because of song selection, quality of music and that I treat them better than the other shows.

It's not about "My Way Or The Highway". I have my system set up this way, and for the most part people understand and it works. I don't come off nasty and announce that I won't except disks. If someone asks (which is rare), I explain that I can't play their disk. I ask them what songs they have and show them that I have them. Every once in a while I don't have the song they want to do. But, if I do, I tell them the version, and ask if it is acceptable. Usually it is.

I really think that many of the people posting on this forum are in unique situations, or you all gather together at the same "type" of shows, because I just don't see the call for playing a customer's disk very often. I go to a lot of shows in my area, and I have only seen it a very few times.

I guess if it happened more frequently, I might consider changing my position, but I still would not run burns unless the person had the original.

As far as adding the manufacture codes. I only took them out in my last printing, because the book had gotten so large, and I was trying to make it easier to read, because I had a lot of complaints about the previous one that had all the info. The print was pretty small. For the most part it has worked out fine. I always take the time to talk to my customers, particularly the new ones. I work the room while singers are up, and chat with people. Usually during those conversations, they will bring up questions about the format, how the book is laid out, etc. Most times if they are interested in brands it comes up. I tell them if they want to know a code for a song I can pull it up for them. I have the master data base up on my computer at all times, mainly to look up songs that people can't remember the title or artist.

I think, when you read a thread like this, and the majority has a position, and one poor fool is on the other end, it may come off as the guy (or girl), is arrogant. It's easy to be swayed by the majority. If that is your position it's even easier...then, the poor fool that is taking the heat, is an arrogant fool, because he has only himself and his little tiny voice to try and show there is another side to it.

Maybe a little compassion would help...no, that wouldn't be fair