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They have to do something with all that stuff they got no? I don't know what PEP has or doesn't, and I don't care. I won't buy into PRIME and I won't buy their new product, if they make any. I'm voting with my wallet and encourage other KJs and singers who like to buy karaoke product to do the same.

Some people will however, for one reason or another. Unless you can provide them the information or a better way. They will go under PEP's wing.

Just remember that: 1) People have to pay for PRIME for it to be effective. Right now, its a $350 label and a promise for the future. It's not worth the price currently. 2) KJs and others have to support this venture. Not buying PRIME or product means we vote against what they are doing with our wallets. It's up to US to tell our side of why we feel these tactics are hurting us. If you buy products from people you don't like, your are not helping your own cause.

As for PEP/SC, I've been rebuffed by Mr. Harrington to provide some links off site that are not under PEPs control for positive reviews. I've looked at some other forums, and the dates on them are so old they don't even talk about ADVANCE. This seems to be the best forum for karaoke as far as I know.

There are no PRIME labeled members on the PEP website, or press releases about those national bookings they have made under this new program, no sample training, etc. For that matter, I haven't seen anything regarding the CB product or those who did the registration either. I'm not saying its not happening, just that you would think PEP would be making some noise over things on their end, and definitely showing KJs/customers who do visit their site some positive stuff. At best its a PR failure, at worst its just not happening like they want it. Either way, its fine with me because unless they fix their in house problems, we still have the advantage, and we might for a while if the past is any indication of what PEP does.

So let PEP do what they want, they are pretty bad at things other then the lawsuits, which they seem to have down to a formula. My suggestion to all the KJs out there is not to be angry with pirates... because they will do it anyway and its wasted energy on your part. I now try to get them to drop the SC (and now CB) stuff. Usually I start with "Have you Googled your name(s) while looking for lawsuits today?" It seems to get their attention. I will ALWAYS have to deal with pirates, but if I can cut off some of the funding to PEP, its less money for them. And if I can get them at least at on the right track to being legal, bonus.

We will book a mix of what we refer to as "own shows" and "sub shows." "Own shows" will be staffed with our own personnel and equipment, and "sub shows" will be staffed with licensees' personnel and equipment. Our emphasis in the beginning will be on "sub shows" because it is easier to get that type of booking going quickly.

I think there is a bit of a disconnect between what PRIME is and what your understanding of it is.

We will be selling services anywhere we can effectively provide them. Most of those shows will, for now, be sub shows, and any of our licensees who meet our standards to be a service provider could be hired to do those. We are about to start a canvas of all of our licensees, and one of the main questions we'll be asking is, "What is your availability to do more shows, if we're able to sell one for you?" PRIME doesn't have anything to do with that.

Where we have a PRIME subscriber who's qualified to staff our gigs, we will put a special focus on that location to try to get more gigs for that subscriber. In other words, having a PRIME subscriber in a given area tells us we should focus on that area.



There are a finite but ample number of GEM series licenses available for us to supply to our own rigs. For sub shows, many of the operators already have their own GEM set.

We will not be using HELP for that purpose.



PRIME members will get a 5% discount on HELP, and PRIME PLATINUM members will get 10%.



In theory, we could do that, but we have made the affirmative decision not to.



There is no minimum fee for the HELP license. The publishers' pool is a percentage of the gross revenue.



As noted above, PRIME members get a discount on HELP licenses, so I guess the answer is yes.



No. We will not be offering a HELP-style license for CB product.



No. See above.



My unverified understanding is that PHM is tied up in bankruptcy proceedings. I don't have any firsthand knowledge that's the case--it's just something that was told to me by a lawyer for one of the music publishers, and if that's not right, I'm open to being corrected on it. Based on our assessment of the marketplace, unlike with CB, little damage would be caused if PHM became "freeware"--meaning that no one is enforcing any rights with regard to it.



It's mainly a question of volume. Party Tyme is available in Walmart, so it is fully capable of selling enough units to stay in business despite piracy. It was like that for SC at one time, too.



They are more than welcome, as far as I'm concerned, to institute a similar program.



Good for you.



If you're interested in doing that for us, you can send an inquiry to vendors@soundchoice.com, and when we're ready to do something like that, we'll contact you.

The SC and CB product on our karaoke systems will be digital copies with 1:1 correspondence to discs, based on PEP's policy. Period. As for other producers, we will purchase discs and downloads based on our need for music, keeping 1:1 correspondence (or one purchase per track in use, for downloads). No technicalities.



Not to pick nits, but it's not up to anyone to decide if I'm telling the truth. You don't get to decide what the facts are. They just are. You can decide whether you believe me or not, but what I am saying is either the truth, or not, based on the facts, not on whether you believe me.



We don't consider you competition, either.

We could do that in theory, but we're not going to.



Our plan is to buy on the open market from whatever producer has the best available version of the songs we need. But we anticipate having a purchasing volume that will allow us to negotiate discounts with the producers.



Our plan is to become the largest provider of pub entertainment services in the U.S. Having 50 "owned" rigs in active use would put us pretty close to that goal, but our sights are a bit higher than that. We have ample GEM series available to meet existing demand and to meet our goals.

We do have a lot of discs that we've taken back in trade (not just SC, either), and yes, we have frequently paid below-market rate for them. We expect to have a "Sell Your Discs" section on the SCE website where we list items we're willing to buy and at what price.

What I find ironic is that your more willing to spend money on Someone else's karaoke product then make your own. At 50+ rigs, that's about of a 5th or 6th of the cost towards producing a new song (Cost of business you know)... And yet you give 50 song credits in with a PRIME Platinum membership.

And yes even MORE if you include people who use those credits and want to buy more, plus general population, etc.

Are you planning to just give them a 50 pack gift card to a fellow manufacturer? This. Makes. NO. Sense. Not that anything PEP does makes sense anymore.

One of the advantages of having a large operation will be that it's easier to justify spending money on new production. But we're willing to spend money on someone else's product because we will have a specific purpose for that product. We're also not going to have 50 rigs for a while, but we'll have a need for music now.



Not at present. We might be willing to share our discounts on other producers' music with our PRIME membership, but what you're describing is not the plan.



Actually I would contend that everything we do makes sense in the context of our overall plan. It doesn't make sense to you because you aren't standing in our shoes; you don't have all of our knowledge; you don't have the same motivations we have. The good news is, I don't need for it to make sense to you, for it to work like I want.

In many people's opinions; Sound Choice has been dead in the water for seven years now. they've come up with a few plans to make money in those years and none of them seem to have put them back on the relevancy map as far as karaoke is concerned. There seem to be more pirate shows than ever before. This latest "venture" just seems to be another attempt at harvesting some low hanging fruit. A handful of people always seem to fall into the trap and send in money and get nothing in return except a false sense of security. These people think that being 100% legal in the eyes of PEP will get them something in return. Pirates operate in plain sight with no fear of being hassled by anyone. The same pirates that were in business 7 years ago are still in business and there are more pirates entering the business all of the time. Pirate A hires a KJ to work for him and in a few months, hired KJ copies Pirate A's hard drives and steals half of Pirates A's shows. Rinse and repeat. More pirates mean more shows to sing at and shorter rotations because the singing crowd splinters off to help support the newer shows. If they find a new show that they like, they go back again and again. If PEP gets their feet in the doors of even more bars, there will just be more places to sing at for the singers. The average singer doesn't follow the issues that PEP is trying to fight against and most likely couldn't care less about them. Bar owners want a KJ with a following. They don't care about PEP. They only care about asses in seats. Any new show or new KJ has a hard time getting singers to leave their favorite shows to patronize a new show. I already have plenty of shows that I frequent on any given day of the week. Most of those shows seem to have the same people at them from week to week. I think that PEP is coming to the game way too late to get a foothold in the KJ business. Only time will tell.

Wouldn't that be a sweet deal? Take as many discs out of circulation as you can, lease back songs to get paid forever and then compete with your own customers that you haven't yet sued for your trademark, but sue them for the trademark you purchased.

Considering that SC "sold their catalog" to Stingray, I find it very difficult to see where (as of the date of the sale) anything was "stolen" from them after that date.... because they "sold it" remember?

Unless you want to consider that even though they "sold it" they still "own it" and are suing you "for it." And that's only the trademark, because they don't "own" the underlying song, or lyrics, (they never did) or even the audio track (they sold) anymore.

Even Harrington has admitted that in order to release "back catalog songs" requires that they re-record them. That ain't gonna ever happen, at least not with their own money.

And now they think they're going to walk in and take over the hosting business? Said no one ever.

So Mr. Harrington, let me get this straight....

You have No Plans to produce any new karaoke at this time, yet will take money from prospective PRIME members and give them their tracks and bennies "Someday". No definite timeline on that at ALL because you are not a larger operation yet. Got it.

You are also buying other vendors tracks because you will have less then 50 rigs... for a while. So your company will be advertising OTHER karaoke brands at a PEP show. Got it.

You are possibly going to give prospective PRIME members a discount on other karaoke vendors product, and will try to get them discounts on other things, but no promises on that. Got it.

You have said that PRIME is not a lock on national bookings, that all KJs "In good Standing" will have access to them. Got it.

What is the value on PRIME again? You are right, I am clueless here.

EDIT: Oh one other thing, I assume the "national bookings" aren't locked as well because I haven't heard/seen anything about it from PEP. Pure speculation on my part I know, but I'm sure you would want potential customers/singers to know about when a PEP gig is happening, just because well that is a promoters job.

I really don't see the point of your rewriting what I say if you're just going to screw it up.

First of all, PEP and Sound Choice Entertainment (SCE) are two different entities. They are related in that PEP owns SCE, but they have different aims and different business lines.

PRIME is a PEP program, and the benefits are being provided by PEP. PEP is in the process of restarting production. PEP has a firm plan for returning to production, but it is uncertain as to the timeline. PRIME members receive an annual allotment of credits that they will be able to begin using once production starts. Once production starts, that will be a useful benefit to PRIME members. Until then (and even after then), PRIME members will get a discount on PEP's existing products—GEM and HELP, as well as CB materials we're offering. That discount is valuable if you want those products.

National Booking is an SCE program. SCE will be booking gigs for itself and to farm out to licensed KJs. SCE will look at the list of PRIME members who want to be considered for gigs, and it will try to book gigs that can be contracted out to PRIME members in those areas. Being a PRIME member doesn't mean you will definitely get gigs, because SCE's business considerations dictate where gigs will be available and to whom. SCE will hire KJs who aren't PRIME members where that's the best decision. But being a PRIME member does indicate to us (SCE) that you are interested in and serious about providing services to us.

When we have the ability to buy other producers' tracks in bulk, if we are allowed to do so, we will allow PRIME members to join with us in those purchases and get preferred pricing. That is not a major focus of the program, but it is an option.

Finally, the biggest benefit of all is the equipment discount and rebate program. We are in the process of arranging for bulk discount or dealer pricing on equipment—speakers, mixers, microphones, cases, stands, cables, and so forth. PRIME members will be able to buy at or near our cost, which is in most cases well below the minimum advertised pricing. In some cases, to accomplish this, we may have to implement a rebate program instead of a direct purchase.

If you have no need of additional music or equipment, and if you have all the work you can handle, then I guess PRIME isn't for you.

So PEP is together with SCE until its not. Then for whatever reasons they are separate. Owned by the same people who work at same place. Must of missed that memo. Got it.

Why waste your breath on Singers. Since the only physical product currently being offered is the GEM series, Singers do not qualify to purchase that (only KJs). Also, the proposed "Advance" series is NOT being made available to Singers (just to Gem Series licensees, Certified KJs and Only Disc Based (ODB) KJs). In other words, Gem Series and Advance Series will only be made available to recognized KJs. Also, Singers do not qualify for any of the different "membership" plans being offered by PEP (it's all KJ-based... HELP License, PEP Platinum and PEP Prime).

Because we DO get singers who buy and bring in karaoke product. Will play original karaoke CDs (No Thumb drives) but we won't play SC (and now CB) due to legal issues. That usually leads into an explanation of whats going on in our industry.

I could say the exact same thing about my plans to win the lotto.. But you know, there was this organization called KIAA that "was gonna"do a lot of things, but just ended up taking membership fees, doing nothing and vanished.... You might want to ask Kurt about that one since he was instrumental in that lead balloon.

But it is "uncertain as to the timeline." Which of course won't happen until they get the magic "500 systems out and working" to provide enough profit to actually start production..... What a fairytale so far that is just one string attached to another string... to another string.... that is dependent on yet another string...

Because it is the only thing you can offer... but even that requires a payment up front for "membership" and then a couple of contracts, a few thousand and/or an ongoing monthly payment so that these members can shell out even more....
still with no certain production date for credits.....
because the 500 systems have to make money first....
someday....
and then there is the "licensing problem" that seems to plague them at every turn....


So let's see if I have this right:
#1. SCE books the gigs
#2. To "prime members"
#3. and hands the profits over PEP to "start production?" What's in it for SCE?


English translation: Send us $349 and if we think you're good enough, we might... just might send a gig your way.... and we'll take a cut off the top. Unless there is a non-member that's just as good and will work for less.... but that's just business.

So, they will buy them from you and not the "other producer?" You are the middleman? (little nip here, little nip there)

**Newbie Alert** This is only good for a person who wants to break away from an employer and doesn't own equipment. Which so far, pretty much describes the whole program: Training, music, equipment and possibly some low-paying "starter gigs."
I guess you're right.

And I will say it again (Reading is Fundamental... re-read my original response to you).... Singers (unless they are KJs themselves), can NOT purchase the products now being offered (or proposed to be offered in the future) by PEP. Any old SC CDGs (from about 2009 and before) they are able to purchase are not being sold directly by SC or PEP (which, from what you just said, won't matter to you anyway... you just said you won't play those tracks).

Yes they've stated anything new wouldn't be available to the general public, only to those that already qualify only. And hopefully it would only be stuff NOT available ANYWHERE else to be even worth buying.

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Cueball: You are right, I stand corrected... I should have said we get KJs as singers as well. I thought in some post prior I had said that.

I work on off nights and we tend to get KJs (Among other music types) who would like nothing more then to drink and be a singer for a few hours.

The promise of new songs at some point in the future is nothing but the bait. As Larry Bud Melman would say...."Thanks a lot, suckers!!!"

I would love to be a fly on the wall when PEP tries to sell their National Booking Program to some place like Applebee's. As far as I know even if you approached any national chain the owners of the national chain name do not get much of a say as to what happens in their places except as to things like menu's, hours of operation and decor. Most such places are franchised, and when the local place says to the national headquarters, "Karaoke will not work here because.....", the national headquarters is going to go along with what the local places know and side with them thus not taking PEP's deal. What happens "IF" PEP approaches one of these places that have a good working KJ and he gets replaced by a Bozo that is hired by PEP and the show bombs and no one comes anymore? Is Pep going to somehow reimburse this place? Many of us have seen places that have a good KJ working only to be replaced by some Bozo because the price is lower only to have it bomb and the club goes looking for it's original KJ. Will PEP reimburse a prime member when they can't get him any gigs?

This all reminds me of the the Yugo. It might have been a good idea but the product sucked.

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