Karaoke Forums

I have been shopping for 400 watt amps myself to bi-amp my DJ speakers, and here are the two I have narrowed my search down to:


http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ ... sku=481583

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ ... sku=481586

The first is $399.00 but is a discontinued model from 2006 that some stores just still have stock on. The second is $499.00 but is a higher quality unit and currently has a $135.00 mail in rebate, so I am leaning towards that one. It is actually 380 watts/channel, but the 20 watt shortage is pretty much insignificant as far as properly driving the speakers.

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C Mc
KJ, FL

Thanks... it's just that some website had the power rating at 200 watts, and some had it at 400 watts... I wasn't sure which one was accurate.  

http://www.guitarcenter.com/shop/produc ... sku=601422

Am i just missing soemthing?  the price, specs, appearance and model numbers are exactly the same?

I just had trouble finding speakers that are 200 watts....

All speakers have three ratings:

Continuous/Program/Peak

Continuous is the rating that they could easily handle all day without any issues, and are tested using computer-generated pure tones throughout the entire audio spectrum of the speaker (frequency range), and hence represents almost every concievable application you would put the speakers through.

Program is the nominal (average) rating they are designed to handle, and is usually tested using "program" material like standard music CDs, hence the name. Of course, the majority of what you would use PA speakers for would be program-type material (CDGs are program material!!).

Peak is the MAXIMUM rating they are designed to handle before you start putting debilitating stress on the speaker components.

The Peavey PR10s are rated at 200/400/800.

I'd say a majority of engineers will tell you to match the program rating to the amp, as 99% of all peaks will still be under the peak rating so you will have the maximum power the speaker can safely handle without the amp even having the ability to produce more than an insignificant number of peaks over the peak rating. To be fair, there are some engineers who will tell you to match the amp to the continuous rating, as then you can use the speakers for any application you want and never reach the peaks, though you sacrifice efficiency at the same time.

So the guitar center site either accidentally listed the continuous rating for those speakers or possibly they have a policy to list the continuous rating for their speakers instead of the program rating for legal reasons (again, so you never have the possibility of reaching the peaks).

Here is the official Peavey site that shows the specs for the PR 10 speakers:

http://www.peavey.com/products/browse.c ... AE+10+.cfm

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C Mc
KJ, FL

I thank you kindly for your response.... Oiy this is just one lesson after another.. I think i might just return everything and go for a Phonic 620 package?  I guess for a basement room 2 100 watt speakers should be adequate?

http://www.zzounds.com/item--PHOPPACK620

Any feedback on that system?

I think I remember Phonic being a more respected electronics manufacturer back in the 1980s, but don't know about them now. They are based in Taiwan from what I found.

That system certainly has everything you need for a home system (once you hook up a CDG player or computer to it, of course).

My only concern would be the quality, which I can't comment on, but for $299.00 with a 90 day warranty from the manufacturer, a 30 day warranty from ZZounds, and really good feedback from other owners on the site, I would say go for it.

Just due to the power output and size of the speakers, don't ever blast the music or mic volume and you shouldn't have any problems.

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C Mc
KJ, FL

thanks! too bad I can't cancel my order in time.. now i have to wait for them to ship and then ship it back ... so I can just plug my rca cables into the tape in on the mixer right?  yea it seems that most owners are pretty satisfied with the unit.... I might as well get it.. relatively cheaper then what i just purchased.

I guess my reservation with a power amp that's "only" 2*100 watts is how loud is it?  I am not very familiar with live sound and their power ratings compare to say.. home speakers... You know a home stereo with 200 watts power isn't exactly home shattering....

Remember, wattage does not equal volume!!

Most home theater systems push 100 watts per channel just like this amp, so you can expect its music reproduction to be similar in terms of actual volume.

What you won't get with this 100 watt/channel system that you would get with the 400 watts/channel system is CLEAN, CRISP sound at higher volumes, especially for the vocal component of the karaoke. That isn't to say that if you are singing at a normal level at home that it is going to sound bad. It is going to be perfectly fine at reasonable volumes like you would listen to a movie on your home theater. HOWEVER, the lack of wattage will show when you try to crank this up into the upper 25% of its available volume, where the vocals will sound muddy and the music will start to lose "sharpness" due to the lower wattage.

But remember, this will have the ABILITY to be just as loud as the more expensive system, it just won't sound as good at those higher volumes.

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C Mc
KJ, FL

Thanks, yea my home system pushes out around 110 per channel.... and i'm only using the 2 main ones right now... it sounds decent... just not good for karaoke.  

I didn't want to drop another 200 bucks on a more powerful amp to power those peaveys since that would just really not justify the cost for my NOT so big basement... woudl've been close to a grand if I tried to exchange for another amp...

Since space is also an issue I didn't want to have any bigger speakers than 10s or 12s... So really wanted the peaveys cause of looks, size, and power... oh well I'm sure the phonics will serve me fine.

Thanks for your help.  Glad I have no bosses at work for the whole week.

Well for those of you that helped out (and cared to know what i end up getting) here's the list.

Phnic powerpod 620 power mixer 2 channel - 2- 120watts 4-8ohms. (although most sites list the power at 100watts... its' really 120)
Matching Phonic 10" SE710 speakers.  
Bought a pair of Monster performer 500 series speaker cables.
2 Akgd9000 mics.
2 Mogami gold series microphone cables (wanted to get planet waves since they are much more PRICED to what i wanted to spend... but the local store didn't carry the length I wanted... oh well)
And finally a monster HTS 800 powercenter.

I'm now broke for the month but it does sound pretty decent to my amateur ears, and I am now ready to invite my coworkers so we can drink and sing hehe

thanks!

Home stereos are not designed to reproduce live music - which karaoke is half ie live vocals.    As far as power goes, it's not really dependant on volume, it's dependant on what your speakers can handle.  A 500 watt program rated speaker is not going to sound as good (and more chance of blowing) if it's run with a 100 watt amp as opposed to that same speaker running with an amp that can push the 500 watts it needs to make it sound that good as rated.  10's or 12's aside, make sure you have the proper power pushing them, again, the power is not necessarily for volume, but to make sure your speakers are reproducing the best efficiency they can without distortion.

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Thanks  Well like my post before yours... I bought a Phonic PA system with matching speakers... 120 watts per channel, and the speakers were 80watts rms, so that sounds about right.. 50 percent more power then the speaker's rms right?  

Also like you said the live part (my vocals) come out much better through this system.  Sounds like something I would hear at a karaoke bar.  It's unfortunate when I was in Hong Kong I was not into all the "hardware" yet... it would be interesting to see what kind of system they use.  Since karaoke is LIFE over there.  

Thanks for all the explainations.

Not the 'RMS' rating, but the 'Program' rating is what the amp should be matched to.

Actually that mixer is rated at it's 4 ohm load @ 100 watts per channel - meaning it  is pushing about 65 watts into 8 ohm speakers.  Here's the spec sheet.  
http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/p ... 636500.pdf
The 4 ohm rating is often used in the sales pitch of most stores to make the amp appear to push more power than it does (sometimes they will even use the 2 ohm rating or bridged rating), but it always boggles me why they package systems together that can possibly fail because of mismatched speakers to the amps.

The 710 speakers are rated at  100 watts @8 ohms program according to it's spec sheet.
http://www.americanmusical.com/manuals/ ... manual.pdf
So the amp is going to be slightly underpowering, however it probably won't be too bad as long as you aren't cranking it up too loud.  
Should work fine, good luck with it & have fun!

The karaoke boxes over in the Asian worlds still use the same equipment as they were back in the days.  A small 'karaoke' mixer amp, a couple small 8-10" speakers mounted on walls (remember they don't have karaoke bars, it's karaoke rooms).  A friend of mine visited over there last year & said karaoke is nothing like it is out here.

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Actually every website including Phonic's says it's 2@100 but on the instruction manual it's 2@120 @4ohms, 240 bridged mono 4ohms.  I am not sure why... but here's the link

http://hq.phonic.com/home/files/existin ... nglish.pdf

Under the spec page it says 80 watts @ 8 ohms, and 120 watts @ 4ohms per channel etc

Maybe cause they made it the powerpod 620 (PLUS) they were too lazy or just forgot to change the spec... or is 100 watts like the AVERAGE of the 2? I'm sure it most likely does NOT work that way... but who knows.  

Also the speakers... the ones I got were 710SEM (http://www.phonic.com/en/product/detail ... _no=sem710)... they might be different from the 710SEM II...

So I guess in the end i'm getting 80 watts @ 8ohms out amp, and 80 watts program 8 ohms speakers.  I haven't even gone over half the output before I decided it would not be good for the neighborhood... so I dont' think i have to worry about blowign them soon.  
 
Yea I'm chinese, we often go to karaoke bars with "rooms" here in the states but they are just not very comparable to the places in Hong Kong.  (songs are old, equipment aren't the best, etc)

http://www.newaykb.com/aboutus/aboutus04.htm

If you're bored you can check out that link... it also shows you how the rooms are decorated, food and services etc.  (although the room i went to is much more ... "ordinary" just dark red couches, black walls if i remember correctly... it was dark )

When I visted a few months ago, we had a party with about 30 people, had our private room with a 100+ inch projector TV for the videos.  But since I didn't get into all the hardware stuff after my visit I didnt' poke around the room we were in to see what brand they were using etc.  I think the Karaoke Bar chain  i went to had about 4 levels and at least 100 rooms of various sizes... smallest would fit 6 people, biggest (i assume the one I was in , could easily fit 40 people)  Every room had a phone so you can phone your waiter and etc.  (people drank green tea with black label.... I guess it's good if you DON'T like whiskey)

Difference between English and Chinese songs (karaoke market) are... most Chinese songs (esp cantonese) are made for karaoke since the market is so huge (even the way they compose the tunes and lyrics.. all very easy to remember).  In fact we often use the term K-song to describe songs where on the first try , without ever listening to it, one can readily sing 80 percent of it.  Any song anyone would listen to is readily available in karaoke format with mtv and etc.. most cd albums comes with a vcd or dvd with 2-4 songs (the good ones) with 2 audio track for dvd or left right channel vocal/music split vcds for karaoke purposes.   Not to mention they release every single concert dvd/vcd possible in less than half a year.

Which is why i began this project anyways since I had all these dvds/vcds from ove the years... i'm like why not just put it on my computer and sing along