Karaoke Forums

I know Jesse,  three things make Critique bad here IMO

1) Those that don't know what the term means, and try to upstage the singer by offering what turns out to not be critique or helpful commentary at all, but instead their own "song and dance" to have their own day in the sun within the singers comment boxes and at the singers expense.


2) Those that don't want Critiques at all, or know what the term means but continue submitting for Critique regardless.

3) Those that don't want to see others receive and give Critiques

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Or JUST for such an opportunity to exist for those that wish to help one-another. Those that wish to be left alone, and do THEIR own thing without anybody chiming in SHOULD be respected too !  Those that want to have fun, and not hear opinions on their work MUST have that respected here too of course.  It's ALL about respecting others boundaries.



I'm waiting for enough to bet as you are.  I can use the money !  




Although I have extreme respect for performing arts level musicians, It's not a lifestyle I was able to hang in with for a long time, I got sick on the road.. I HAD to go back to :music being just for fun: anything else was shooting myself in the foot. I could've never made enough to live comfortably off've (ALL the time) as a touring musician, but assuming I could've,  I'd have been so stressed and ill and drugged from needing to self-medicate (from that life-style) I'd likely be dead now.. I wasn't tough enough, OR the type of person who could handle that lifestyle, I'm too highstrung.. I tried, and couldn't keep it up indefinately..but at least I tried and found out...  If something brings a person pleasure, and relaxation why bring it to a different level than "fun" if we don't need to ?  Beyond fun brings types of stresses.  It's counterproductive for me to have music as an additional source of stress. This site should be fun for all. Even those requesting Critiques aren't realistically sacrificing having fun assuming they truly are given, and want helpful tips.. It should go without saying that EVEN with Critique being allowed in this enviroment, such a critique should not include the "tough drill Sgt" mentality, or scholastic "knock him down to prep him for the real world in this field" style Critique..  THOSE CAN'T work in such a forum.. Best way for the Critiquing person to end up hated... It's just a logical and reasonable process involving some ability here... nothing more.

The showcase is really a performing arts environment.  It has it's share of politics, highs and lows, and sometimes people need to step down for a few, chill out and return if they aren't too blown out. and sometimes the competition get's people really PISSED off.  It does that to ALL of us !   I couldn't deal with it.. It does hurt acutely at times.. and I throw tantrums like a baby too at times...

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Yep, I read all X's reviews and they sounded pretty good. It was encouraging that someone was commenting on technical issues. It seems I read some comment by X somewhere that he said he didn't go real hard on people that were not that good. He ranked them based on how good they could be. So perhaps he/she was just trying to encourage the particular singer that they were being nice to?

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The Truth Is Out There

In those situations the whole thing freaks you out. I remember one time near Wheeler, Tx http://www.tornadoxtreme.com/2003_Chase ... _15th.html I was rushing to an intersection to beat a potential tornado and so I was trying to drive fast, but I also didn't want to hydroplane. Fortunately my tires were new, and I didn't have a problem. As for the adrenalin, I've been thinking that's not too good for my heart. Constantly dealing with stress in those types of situations long term probably is pretty tough on your health. Nowadays I try and remember to breathe and relax as much as I can and just stay cool and make decisions. I also try not to always be in those situations. Sometimes I wonder if I just subconsciously enjoy the "game" of getting myself in those situations though to see if I can get out. Too narrow margins of safety. I've always meant to be safe, but it's amazing how stuff just goes wrong. It especially goes bad at night. Anyway, it is entertaining in some bizarre way.


Thank you!! We all have to be careful. Everything can be "Googled" these days and insurance companies are starting to learn that.



What've you been up to Charmin?  LMAO  :wink:



Yeah, mine's '96 - not that new, but you are right it is really annoying. Mine does ok off road, but I always think I am getting aggressive enough tires for mud only to find out - nope. I have stories for everything, but suffice it to say I was trying to go through a muddy field road, and couldn't go fast in Kansas without sliding into the field. Next time I purchase tires they will be more aggressive. My friend Gene just puts mud tires on when he goes chasing. Then again, taking dirt (mud) roads when chasing is another question mark. I always swore I'd only drive on paved roads for safety, but seems rules are only made to be broken. Haha.




You know, that's a great idea Charmin. Thank you. I've always thought of writing a book, but never could figure out what to do with the plot and all. Then I thought of biography, but what? "Memoirs of a Storm Chaser" though would allow me to integrate background information along with creative writings like poems, and chase accounts. Thanks again Charmin!

Actually I used to be really into writing. In college I could have easily been an English major. My English teacher was always trying to get me to publish stuff, but I just blew it off. I'm really out of practice nowadays.

Here's one of my more creatively written chase accounts. A lot of people said they liked the way I wrote about it. Some said they felt as if they were there.
http://www.tornadoxtreme.com/2001_Chase ... n__ks.html

Also here is a fictional creative short story I just threw together one night:
http://www.tornadoxtreme.com/Chase_Insp ... rrior.html

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The Truth Is Out There

You should sub your music video of the storm in SS Bill

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Can't do that. For one the video - already highly compressed is 49mb and limits in SS are 5mb. Also the SS player won't play video I believe. That would be a good idea though to also allow karaoke music videos.

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The Truth Is Out There

wow..  I have to say I'm fairly surprised at some of what I just read..  so if I'm understanding correctly...

Since I choose not to use my real name as my nic here (yep folks.. my real name is NOT Foxe .. it's not even "ROXY" which my entire nic used to be FoxeRoxy)...  that means that I shouldn't be able to offer my serious thoughts and opinions as a cirtique according to what I've read here.. .

well.. how do I know that Steven Kaplan is really HIS name.. or that Michael's name is really MJK... I don't ...  since when does what we use for nic's dictate what we can or can't say? And what's to say the pic I use in my profile isn't someone's pic I grabbed off the net.. this is after all the INTERNET...  world wide web...  stalker heaven.. etc..  

so now it's become.. because Listener X doesn't tell us who he/she is.. that means they are unqualified to have an OPINION <- yes.. their critique is an OPINION - and yes.. a CRITIQUE is an opinion REGARDLESS of whether the person is a proclaimed "expert" in a field or not.. it is ALWAYS an opinion.. and for some people their opinions turn into gold.. others turn into moldy bread..

and then I read that if I can't sing a song that means I'm not qualified to critique it either? again wow... last time I checked I did have ears... I can hear a song and decide if I like it or not..  and if not.. what it was that struck me off about the song right? hmm maybe not...

has someone informed the general public that they aren't qualified to purchase CD's and make artists millionaires and winners of grammys.. Music Awards and whatever else.. because a majority of the general public probably can't sing a lick either..

I'm not a mechanic either.. but I've had a knack in the past of being able to diagnose what exactly is wrong with my car.. doesn't mean that *I* can fix it.. but I've been known to be right about it..

I think I see it now.. the problem with ListenerX isn't the fact that they are critiquing.. it's because of our insatiable need to know WHO this person is.. how dare they hide behind a nic? well..  look around.. there's a lot of people using nic's...  Foxe, Cantstopsinging, Dreamer, Milo, Planet_Bill (or is Planet your first name? ), Blue Stained Shoes, Morgan, Knightshow, etc... and SOME people on the SS singing side of things choose not to come into the forums or share personal info about themselves *gasp horror*..  again..  its THEIR choice how much personal info they wish to share.. there's nothing in terms and conditions of this site that says I ever have to give anyone my email addy, my real name, or any other personal information publicly about myself at all.

regardless of WHO says WHAT or WHO they proclaim to be..  it is always up to the RECEIVER of the comment to decide what they believe or don't believe as far as the comments go...

If I post a song and get 10 comments that tell me I am the best thing since sliced bread.. well.. it's my choice to decide whether I believe it as fact or fiction isn't it... If I put up a "C" sub and someone tells me I'm flatter than a tire... and everyone else says I should turn pro.. again.. it's my choice to believe what I want to believe..

so why is there such a HUGE fuss over this? because too many people believe they are "The Next Big Thing" ?? because 25 people told me so??  

*sigh* ... carry on.. I've no idea why I just posted this at all.. I don't know ListenerX.. don't have the foggiest clue who they could be.. and next thing I know I'll probably be suspected as well.. and I just don't care.

I just happened to read something disturbing on my bulletin space at myspace that said there's a witch hunt going on here..  and it was the 2nd time I'd heard something was going on here in the past couple of days so I thought I'd check it out..  

hopefully whomever is organizing and gathering people to try to get other people banned from the sites realizes that literally organizing to have people banned or that I have to be liked by a certain crowd or be worried they will try to organize to ban me as well or not let me play in the SS/KS sandbox.. well that's about as cliquish as one can get isn't it..  :shock:

Hi Cindy.. I think the ambivalence about Listener X has to do with the fact that this person is using an extra nic to what we already know him as, to give the critique, based on his profile that he/she has been ranked before so has gone under a different name.. It's like you or I taking a different nic than we are known..

As for Listener X. I can see it different ways. Not sure I've made up my mind yet. One good reason to be anonymous is so that you can provide feedback / critique without fear of reprisal, or your typical friends on SS/KS getting mad at you. It also could be a tool for someone with an agenda to be mean. But constructive criticism could be made if an anonymous critiquer chose to be as objective as possible. Apparently X wasn't completely objective.

Perhaps there are reasons to distrust people whose identity you don't know, but just because someone is anonymous doesn't mean they aren't legitimate, or knowledgeable, or have something interesting, or good to say.

People take their time on things like SS whether pro or not, because they enjoy it for various reasons. I don't think you have to be a pro to have a reasonable or perhaps even accurate opinion - think of how much critics of movies disagree. Perhaps pros have more specific info to provide.

I had the idea to have separate membership in KS / SS just for reviewers. That way you could learn about them and even rate the reviewers so you would know if people value their opinion, but they wouldn't necessarily be biased because they weren't subbing songs - so no conflict of interest in that regard. There should be some accountability of reviewers though. We don't want people that are nothing but rude, and biased annoying people and running people off.

I don't think people should take SS too seriously, particularly in it's current form. It is very informal. Don't let people's opinions ruin your day, or make you want to stop subbing, or leave KS. If people are really being rude, then report them to Admin.

It doesn't appear we can all come together in agreement on SS. It is too diverse, and people are there for different reasons. Different people of differing levels, and social abilities also have different experiences there.  I really can't see anyone is right or wrong. We all have a right to our opinions, and we all have them. Our opinions can even change at times. I'd say if you can't please everyone, then please yourself. At least for now.

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The Truth Is Out There

On this I'm not so sure. They could have created a new id, subbed any kind of song, and then rated it themselves with their own id. Perhaps that is enough for a rating? Then they could have quickly deleted the song. Not sure why they would want to rating though. Perhaps they just wanted to be able to rank, and to do that they had to sub a song?

That said, there is also a good chance you are right. It could be someone people on SS knew that just changed their alias. As I recall checking though it showed they were a new member and they had no posts in KS.

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The Truth Is Out There

it "could" be someone at SS that 'changed' their nic.. but....  it might not be..  if you look at the profile on the KS side..

Listener X   User  
newbie    02 Nov 2006 Tue Jan 30, 2007 7:48 am
Never 0
0

it takes points to change your nic here... and points are earned by making posts to the forum. they've never posted to the forums... and they first joined here on 02 nov 2006.. so no stars, no points..  nothing...

I think many people have possibly jumped to a conclusion that it is possibly someone they know..  but assuming something doesn't always make it so.

what if when I signed up I only went by FoxeRoxy.. and never told anyone my name is Cindy.. kept up the pic of my dog whose name was Roxy.. and went on from there..  no one here would know anything about me would they..

I still think the biggest itch is that this person has chosen to not reveal any info about themselves.. which isn't a violation of the terms to be at this site..  revealing anything personal to other people on the site.. is a CHOICE.. not a mandate. Yes.. not revealing anything personal about oneself makes it easier to be cut throat at times doesn't it. but the entire INTERNET makes it easier for people to be that way.

I sometimes feel that because I sub almost exclusively in the JFF category that people may look at me oddly when I do stop by a C sub and offer what I hear.. and those people may think.. what does she know.. she doesn't even sub "C" songs. I don't claim to be an expert either.. but I still say it's the subbers choice to decide if they want to use my opinion or not.

You've made some excellent points there Miss Foxe!

The assumption that listener x has been under another nice here is that he/she has a member rank,  which unless I am incorrect is different from member avergae rank.. A memeber average rank is the average rank you've given others. Member rank is what that particular member has been given by others. Overall,  it's human  ambivalence that comes into play, you know the mystery that may give people the uneasy feeling.. Not the end of the world.... I wouldn't mind if Listener X would come by to greet me!!

I agree with ya, Cindy-in-disguise-as-Foxe... (Lol)

I think what causes the animosity is not really the critiques given, but how certain people react to those critiques. I myself do exactly what you said, I glean what I think I need from my received comments. NOT that I don't appreciate every one I get.... but they are just not all truthful all the time.

On the subject of wether or not this person has changed their name... I don't personally think so.

Steven is right... as I recall, you DO have to sub a song before you can rank others. Looking at my OWN profile (while logged in at SS) I see a "Member Rank" which is an average of ranks I've RECEIVED, and an "Average Rank" which is an average of ranks I've GIVEN. Now, if I click over to someone else, all I can see is their "Member Rank".


Copied and pasted from my profile page:



So, going by that, Listener X must have subbed at one time or another. But geesh... all he'd have to do is put one song up and then take it back down - and he can now rank people. I guess it would have had to be up long enough to be ranked though, since he does have a Member Rank.

Oh, who cares?    LMAO


.

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

Oh, and by the way, let me put in my disclaimer:

Noooo.... I'm NOT "Listener X".  LOL

.

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

I just moved this thread to where it should belong;  Singer's Forum.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

Actually I think Listener X whoever he/she is is more than welcome because changing the current rigidity is what SOME of us would like to see, however I also understand others curiosity as to how Listener X who has supposedly never posted on SS could have a 9.7, AND why can't they just be themselves. Some feel (and rightly so) IMHO, since some feel we expose ourselves, why must you hide from us ?

"We leave ourselves somewhat vulnerable when we request a Critique of our material, (even sub'ing leaves our SN somewhat vulnerable using a SN you know), so; Why should you be hiding from us when you Critique us ?  It detracts from a sharing  process in our opinion"..  



Cindy,   My thoughts on this are that "Listener X",  even based upon that SN, AND having supposedly never posted in SS (using this name) is still a person who somehow has a 9.7 average, has been asked who he/she is,  has never posted on the bboards, explained anything about himself, and just all of a sudden apears to Critique, and do little else. Now while I believe any and all real critiquing is a good thing, I can also understand others wondering who this individual was, and why they felt a desire to change their name to (what appears to be) JUST offer Critique. I think that's all this is about for some, no biggy.. I personally don't feel Listener X should be singled out. My own feeling is Listener X is doing what MOST that are complaining want done.

So I can understand why those chosen are wondering;

WHY ME, Did I know you ?  Who were you ?  What's with the 9.7, why did you change your name and in addition why is ALL you do Critique people, using a name "listener X",  because that name connotes you are here to listen and just Critique, but WHY have you changed into somebody else ?

This person "appears" to be a person who has in fact changed his name just to Critique, and has read posts but never answered to the questions regarding "Mysterious person X" when questions have been inferred in BBoards this person has read. Naturally nobody is stating this is a crime, and my own feelings are that Critiquing is good of any sorts, BUT, I'd never walk into a bboard cold new, and start Critiquing people, because my own feeling is that there should be somewhat of a past history and established comradery among those exchanging info at such a level for it to be worth more.

Anonymity IMHO has little to do with this as long as the anonymous individual has established some consistency and credibility in the eyes of those that know the anonymous SN, and the person is somehow sharing, and not just here for some different motive.. It raises questions for some that's all, Motive in this case is questioned... While you aren't Foxe by birthname,  you still of course have at least 2+ years of behaviour that people in the Showcase know as Foxe, You've identified yourself when you abbreviated your name too of course, and have been "on the line"... You have sub'd, you have commented on subs using Foxe,  so "Foxe" isn't a mysterious name... While my real name might be something else,  I'm showing consistency (of sorts) and those who I critique know who I am based  upon my SN's behaviour over a duration, There's an element of predictability and security to the name "Steven Kaplan", or perhaps irratic behaviour but still, there's a pattern of consistency that people either do or do not feel comfort with.. There's security in familiarity, that's really what some of this is about, plus Listener X is somebody who HAS appeared to change names to Critique only, so others do have a right to ask..."DO I know you" ? "WHY aren't you who you were anymore?"...and that's the source of discomfort for some I suppose.. Assuming I never posted in the BBoards, never got to know people first, and one day appeared with a post count, or average of 9.7 yet for some reason my behaviour was ONLY to Critique and not chat or get to know people, I would expect others would, and would have a right to wonder who I was... For all intents and purposes YOU ARE FOXE in here,  and always were, but you have established respect based on behaviour over time... So "Foxe" isn't really anonymous to us in here.... She's you

Incidently several have stated "I thought Listener X was you Kappy"  LOL .. So for whatever reasons, People are wondering who this individual is.  I don't think many are losing sleep over it of course,  it's no biggy,  just curiosity based on several factors.

Again,  I think Critique of ANY type as long as it's well intentioned is a good thing.  I do however also understand that some would rather a person not use a disquise during the process too...(assuming that is what's happening, and some feel they have sufficient reason to believe this to be the case)



Well, THAT'D put me out to pasture  LMAO

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

and on some other boards I'm on .. I don't go by Foxe.. I go by another nic..

I have no binding that says I can only use the nic Foxe.. and there's nothing that says I have to tell anyone who I am on those other boards of course they hear me sing and usually know who it is right off the bat.. but I choose to let them know too.

but yeah it's funny.. Listener X probably put up a song right away when they got here and before they started commenting on people so several of us MIGHT have heard this person but don't recall it because it wasn't anything earth shattering..  but like I said.. you have to have points to change your name.. I can't just go in to the SS and change my nic there.. it comes from the KS member area that lets me do that.

I've never seen anything abusive from this person but I do miss things.. but even going back thru their comments still ont eh board.. I honestly don't see anything earth shattering.. and there are some people that do come in and shoot from the hip the minute they get somewhere without getting to know people.. it just happens..

Kappy.. why? dont you have ears?  :shock:

Sure Foxe, but if somebody responded to my Critique or comments with

"Thanks, who are you, and when am I going to hear you submit"?

I'd answer them VERY honestly, and never comment and Critique them again because I believe what they are stating indirectly is that If I want to watch, I too must play... That is *their* own code, or set of rules I suppose.

I prefer being totally on the line,  while there's NOTHING that states Critiquing should be done by those all of you know, people have asked Listener X who they are/were. I suppose some wish for an answer.. Personally, I'd at least not return to Critique those that make it somewhat clear they are concerned about who I am in any way shape or form..

But, that's just how I feel.. I prefer to be "steven Kaplan" and stand behind all I say, feel, and may have to defend.  It makes the experience more significant for me personally.  Also if I took the effort to give a Critique I believe, and I'm proud of, I TOO would wish to stand behind that since I'd know there is nothing I need to be ashamed of.. BUT,  others feel differently, I guess nobody is right or wrong, just different feelings on what might translate to "etiquette",  an area I have no current knowledge of

I personally am glad Listener X is doing what they are doing, whether I agree or not with their style.. NONE of my business.. This has been another problem with the current Critique setting,  people not allowing the live and let live type setting IMHO

ADDED IN;

Kind of like if Vicki invited me to one of her nudy camps, and I stood there with a snorkel jacket clothed staring at all the naked girls (which of course WOULD be the case),  some might wonder my motive  Some feel Listener X has created a barrier that need not be there in their perspective (I  think)..

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I think the biggest problem regarding this Foxe,  Is that the Critique category isn't defined, many don't even know what the word means, and as a result, many are writing their own definitions and rules regarding the process. A problem I've stated I feel exists.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".