Karaoke Forums

We don't really have any shows that are that big around here. I would never stay long;  I don't want to wait two hours to sing. I might show up early and sing once. If I were a drinker, I might want to hang around for a couple hours. But drinking is not a spectator sport, and I don't enjoy bars in general.


Nice business if you can get it.

You will never be able to make everyone happy.   It's impossible.     It's human nature.      All you can do is try.      Some will like it, some will hate it.    Some will not care.

yeah, we can go crazy trying to understand some owner's and manager's intentions.

ANd they can seriously backfire!! As the one example of the owner getting on the mic and telling him to leave, when a whole table of spenders gets up and leaves... that's the doctor cutting off the foot to cure a hangnail!

This is where I feel the kj SHOULD be involved in the decision... but you have to have that kind of understanding from the beginning of the gig. The owner should be able to complain to the kj that this one person isn't buying anything, and taking up valuable space, where others could point out that their TABLE IS... and that usually shuts up an owner, who can see the bottom line.

SOmetimes you have to thrust it under their nose for them to get a serious wake up whiff! !

Personally, as the kj, I'd NEVER have let the owner or anybody get on the mic without my permission. I'd have a pretty serious knee-jerk reaction to the owner for that, and doubt I'd have been working there long afterwards!

but that's me, and I've retired, so what do I know?

Yes, I do stay all night to listen to a "mixed bag of singers".  As I stated in a previous post I have attended and supported the venues I enjoy during a two-month period when I couldn't even sing.

How could any karaoke venue survive if everybody leaves after they sing once or twice realizing that they have a long wait ahead of them?

I go to hang out with my FRIENDS... acquaintances I made at a specific venue.

My customers back in portland were honest to gawd friends. We had folks come in just for the comraderie!

That's nice -- it's just not me. If I drank, it might be me. But I don't.

The shows survive pretty well as is around here; there is no shortage. Some of them have been running for years, longer than I have been singing.

Easily -- if it is so long I won't stay, they are doing great as it is. I won't stay if it is more than 20 singers, or even less if the KJ is a slowpoke who only averages 10-12 songs per hour. I won't wait two hours to sing.

MSPH, I say. (More singers per hour.) If someone wants to run their show differently -- fine. It just goes on (or not) without me.

I do notice that the shows that run for years here seem to be the ones where they get the singers up quickly and where they don't play filler music. It seems like all the ones I walk out on disappear shortly thereafter...this is all anecdotal of course, from my limited experience. But I have visited 2-10 shows a week for a year and a half, and that is what I see in my geographical area.

I think no singer should hang out at a show if they aren't having fun. If you are going to the bar to get in a couple of songs, then leave when you are ready. If you are going for "an evening of karaoke" then hang around. It all works out. The place we used to hang out at all the time has a late crowd that comes in every night of the week. So the early birds (which includes me more and more as I get older, I am afraid) are easily replaced by the second-shifters and youngsters who are still bullet-proof.

Eric, I agree that a singer should spend money, but what if you aren't a drinker? Buy a drink you will not drink? Or order iced tea because you WILL drink it? When I am in a soft drink mood, I expect to pay a ridiculously high amount for my drinks--hey, it's BAR and that's how it works. But are you saying I should stay home if I want to sing but not drink alcohol or eat (mmm...frozen pizza at our local hangout)?

_________________
[glow=darkorchid]Musica delenit bestiam feram[/glow]

Gigi ..... I hear what you are saying, girl .... BUT .......

Look at it this way .... If you were in the mood to see a movie ..... you have two choices ........ You can go to the rental store...... Get an older movie, take it home, pop it in the DVD player ..... and decide if you want micropop ..... soda, a beer ...... or nothing at all.  

However, if you decide you want to watch a newer movie on a BIG SCREEN, in a theatre ..... my guess is .... they aren't gonna let you into that movie without first expecting you to "pay" (buy a ticket) ...... 'cause ..... no one gets into the movies for free.  And why not?  Cause ...... It's a business offering a service (entertainment, food and drink)....... and the have to pay employees, pay electric bills, and buy insurance and liscences to play that movie.  

We tell our singers all the time .... "we aren't encouraging you to "get drunk" ... but we do ask that you make purchases ...... to help support the venue that is offering you the 'night out' with LIVE ENTERTAINMENT.

I have never been able to walk into a movie for free ..... or a restaurant and say "oh, no ... im not hungry or thirsty, I just wanna sit here and talk with my friends for three or four hours (maybe take a sip of their soda),. I have no intention of buying a thing" ..... and not being told that unless I am patronizing the place, I can't occupy the space.  

If you go "out" for an evening of fun with friends (and its not at someone's home) ... I think its not only fair ... but totally RESONABLE and LOGICAL .... to assume that you WILL be paying for whatever form of entertainment you choose to enjoy.  

Sometimes my singers say ... "I am broke" .... or "Im not thirsty".  And I usually say ....
"I am sympathetic, but if everyone in here says the same thing ~~ next week (or very shortly) you'll have NO WHERE TO GO .... and NOTHING TO DO .... 'cause this place will not be able to afford the Karaoke show YOU LOVE SO MUCH and WOULDN"T MISS unless you were dying  (our singers words, not mine).  

Its a very tough situation, I know ...... but I stand firm that no one should expect something for nothing, nor assume that someone else will be buying enough to compensate for them not making purchases.  After all ... it is a public venue and it is LIVE ENTERTAINMENT.

_________________
[shadow=tomato]If you want your significant other to pay attention to EVERY word you say::
  TALK IN YOUR SLEEP   [/shadow]  

I can agree with asking a single non buying singer to leave, after all the bar has to makle money to support the entertainment. So this guy buys 1 ice tea ? - 1 ice tea in the course of 4 hours amounts to buying nothing. Again I agree to have them either make a purchase or LEAVE.  No loitering ! - The BAR , BARTENDERS etc - all know who is buying (and tipping) and who is not.  If you are there by yourself --BUY SOMETHING.

Now if you are with a group of shot drinking party animals and are the only one not drinking or buying.  Good business sense would say thats okay. Maybe you don't drink Alcohol, maybe its your turn as designated driver or whatever.

Bottom line - PAYING customers whether they sing or not are the ones that SUPPORT Karaoke Entertainment.  A crowd full of non paying A singers will get you to lose your gig as quick as a crowd full of paying NON SINGERS.   You need SINGERS who SPEND to be truly a succesful SHOW and not a HACK (copy right of BD).

Again, if the 1 iced tea guy would just tip the waitress and the KJ, this discussion would not have even come up because everyone would be happy and the owner would have never heard about it

$1.25 for the iced tea
$3.00 tip to the waitress
$3.00 tip to the KJ
____________________
$7.25 for 5 hours of entertainment, which is $1.45 an hour. Can't beat that with a stick!!

_________________
C Mc
KJ, FL

You can not take a bus or taxi without money.


If you don't have the money or can not afford to go out for a night, then I guess you stay home.   Who said you could freeload anywhere????   What gives you the right???    There are freeloaders that will take advantage of everything and everyone.   Sometimes you gotta give them the boot.    Next time bring money.    I'm not running a soup kitchen or YMCA.     It's a for profit business and you ain't helping the cause.   Beat it loser.  :O

Oh I don't mean that one should expect to sit there for free and sing. Never!!!!! Never EVER!!! But I almost feel like some people are saying if I drink soft drinks or something else that is cheap that I am not spending ENOUGH. If I am not spending enough, the bar owner should get his prices in line so that I can enjoy a soft drink and he is making a fair profit. If I can sip one beer all night long (and I can) then I should be able to sip an iced tea all night long. Charge me more for it to begin with. Or have a two-drink minimum. Not a problem. But if you expect me to spend x number of dollars in x number of hours, tell me in advance so I know the rules; don't embarrass me by asking me to leave. I won't be back, even on payday when I am in the mood for four or five drinks and a couple of shots and maybe one of those frozen pizzas (which are actually pretty darn good).

I understand the argument about one non-drinker in a table full of drinkers. I guess you could equate that to having your friends pitch in to pay for your seat in the movie theater.. I'm not really sure HOW I feel about that one.

A freeloader is a freeloader, though. Some of them happen to sing karaoke.

_________________
[glow=darkorchid]Musica delenit bestiam feram[/glow]

OK so we pretty much agree that everyone should buy drinks/food.   How much do you think is a "fair" amount to spend at karaoke.  

Considering you're there to sing and not have your time wasted.  

$10   $20   $30


I'm talking about enough to keep the bar open, with entertainment.    To pay for the help, electricity, water, sewer, garbage..... Not because you feel obligated, but because you want to contribute a fair amount.     And expect that everyone else is paying that amount.

I realize most of you are KJ's and hence your opinion, but truth is if I as a singer / customer came into a bar and bought an iced tea and some time after that was asked to leave because someone thought I wasn't spending enough I would say 'FU', take my friends with me, tell my other friends never to go there, and never return. You are all probably saying 'yeah and good riddance' at this point. People aren't automatic freeloaders just because they don't order a lot of drinks and spend a lot of money up front. As far as a customer knows there is no prerequisite to spend X number of dollars. What if you usually spent more on previous days? What if you are broke / sick, diabetic and can't drink alchohol? Suppose you were about to buy drinks but the guy kicked you out too soon to find out?

Even so there is simply no formal requirement for this. Yeah most people know it is informal courtesy as there are bills to pay. But I absolutely would not tolerate a club with such an attitude.

As Gigi mentioned, require a cover, or as BD mentioned raise prices on all things and require a drink minimum, but otherwise you shouldn't be able to kick people out.

Now all that said, that's not really my routine. I always buy something every so often and tip the KJ after every song I sing and the bartender / waitress after every drink I get. But I don't feel that obligates anyone. I don't think I should be obligated either. I purchase because I need something, and I tip because I like / appreciate the service. In a large group of people there will always be those that don't spend nearly as much as the rest on any particular night. But on some nights they may come back and spend quite a bit, or tell some friends and all of them spend money.

If not stated, it's a courtesy. NOT a requirement.

I suppose bar owners will do as they wish however. I think it is a stupid mistake, and one that can result in very bad results long term, but it is theirs to make.

And no I don't agree. This is not admission to a movie. That has a formal entrance requirement. You have to make your requirements known if you expect people to properly follow them. If they don't in that case THEN you can toss them out on their ear and be justified IMO.

_________________
The Truth Is Out There

Valid points.


It's not the KJs per say that want people to spend money but

If it's a slow night or the drinkers didn't spend as much as normal, the bar owners want me to take a pay cut.


This is not my responablitiy.   But we do it to keep peace.    If I suck, that's a different matter.  If the bartenders can't keep up, that's a different matter.    If it's 40 below, that's a different matter.      If the heat/air conditioner is broken, that's a different matter.    If everyone comes in and demands free water, why should I take a paycut?   That's the problem because the bar owners want to take it out of my money.     Now can you understand why we don't like free water drinkers.    Get out of my wallet and there will not be a problem.  LMAO   Your free drinks are on me.....

I have stated my position on several different threads regarding this matter, including this one.

Again, if those of you who justify not spending much money are correct, then why should I spend money?  If those like me stop spending money, then who will carry the load for those who won't spend?

Why, I ask once more, is there the presumption that the only place to find karaoke is in a bar and that said bar offers nothing to purchase by alcoholic products.

Furthermore, going to a karoke venue shouldn't become a matter of who you can finesse about your spending.  Tipping workers doesn't support the venue!

Lastly, diabetics (I've been a typeI for thirty years) should avoid drinking only establisments and go somewhere that offers caesar salads, soups, steaks, chicken and the like.  

IT SEEMS THE OLD SAW FITS QUITE WELL HERE:   If there's a will there's a way

Because that is the reality in many places?

I am sure in big cities or densely-populated areas with dozens of daily karaoke shows, you have a wider choice. Not where I live.

I regularly patronize the two shows we have that 1) start early and 2) serve sit-down meals.  That is two shows per week, and I drive 40 miles for one of them. They like my patronage enough that they constantly make a point of asking us to come back and give me gift certificates.

Beyond that, every karaoke show is in a bar. Every single one.

I don't drink alcohol, sugar, or caffeine. That makes it pretty difficult for me to find something in many places. Even then, even if I get water, I tip extravagantly. Perhaps it doesn't support the bar directly, but they will be able to attract better wait staff when the tips are good. Better wait staff means happier customers, which means in general more business.

I think most places should take to selling bottled water. I buy that if it is available.

I don't feel guilty about supporting the show in my way. If it doesn't get supported enough, it will disappear. At least here, karaoke shows are on the increase, not the decrease, so it apparently is enough.

Look, I can think of a host of reasons/rationalizations for not drinking at a bar:

     I have to drive home
     I am a recovering alcoholic
     I am a diabetic
     I am on a diet
     I have a heart condition
     It is against my religion
     My spouse doesn't like it when I drink

Two quick questions:
     Does liking/singing karaoke impart upon someone the right to go into an establishment and spend virtually nothing?
     What stops someone with the above stated reasons for not drinking from buying drinks for the bartender, the manager, the KJ or fellow singers.  OR JUST BUY THE DRINKS AND FLUSH 'EM

If the bar offers bottled water, virgin drinks, and food during karaoke then there should be plenty for the non-drinkers to purchase. My opinion is that if the bar offers these things then the singers should support the bar. If the bar does not offer this stuff then shame on them.

Most of the water drinkers and non-tippers that I see are folks that do not have the money...plain and simple. Karaoke is a very cheap form of entertainment for them. Seems like many of them are good singers so they feel that they are contributing to the show in other ways. I have never found a good way to deal with these folks. I will not single them out and embarass them....ever....so I just look the other way.

Cover charges in this area for the most part do not work.

_________________
FlipSide Karaoke
Scott