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Oh yeah, I did FORGET that I didn't use any compression when I zipped my files.   Therefore my odds of failure, are even less.

Zipping the files toghter in the beginning was for a conveince for me.  When I ripped my discs I wanted to use my own filename format.  TO do this would have been a pain if I had to rename 2 files.  With the 2 files in on zip file, it mad life MUCH easier!!!

How in the world did you do that?  Sure, you can copy two smaller files into one big file I don't mean to argue.  But how was it done?  Is this an option in some zipper?

In essence, yes.

I suggest you bow to greater wisdom here; there is no appreciable chance of losing data, to the extent that you can consider the chance to be zero.

Your paranoia about it may arise from running an underpowered system (remember, years ago all were) where the unzipping process added to system load to the extent that it caused problems for operation. That is a real risk, but with the speed of today's systems that risk is minimal as well.

I can see the logic in the argument that zipping is bad. Just because one do not experienced error with those zipped files doesn't mean that there is no error and there will never be or the chance is so small that there will never be. Just ask, why in the first place do one zip? To save space, yes to save space.

But space is cheap. So why bother to ZIP. Do people zip their other mp3 files? I don't. I am going to rip my karaoke collection soon and it will be of CD quality; no compression and no zipping. I will need about 500gb or more to get every thing in uncompressed and unzipped

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

Nope. The bits missing from your CD+G file has nothing to do with the zip file. I get those things from unzipped files, directly from the disc. Again, your assumption of one bit blowing the CD+G files completely false. Please if you don't know the algorithm, do not spread false rumors. A single bit CANNOT blow the entire file. It is impossible. ZIP uses Lempel-Ziv-Welch algorithm for pattern recognition/replacement for compression. It's been proven over time not to lose any data. Can it lose a data because you get a bad bits? Of course but you can lose an entire file to bad bits, whether or not the file has been zipped.

The losing bits in CD+G is from misinterpretation of the sub code from the disc. The ZIP did not create the error, the CD+G decoder did. Let's look at this another way. Do you use mp3 when listening to the music? What do you think mp3 format is? It's another variation of compressed file. If you didn't compress it, 10 songs would take up 700+MB rather than 100s of KBs. Have you ever lost a mp3 file due to a bad bit? If you think mp3 is as unstable as zipped file, why do you use it for your music?

If you don't feel that saving space is not needed, by all means, don't use ZIP. However, spreading false rumor about ZIP format, when millions of people are using it to transport files across the Internet without losing a single bit, is outright dangerous. Remember, ZIP is used for purposes other than for Karaoke. Several 100 million files are transferred through the Internet using the ZIP method everyday and I have NEVER heard of a file being lost because they lost a bit. I mean, banks are using to encript/compress their data when transporting through the Internet, you think if they see a chance a one bit blowing the entire file they would trust it? Absolutely not.

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Again, the chances for a zipped file to lose the entire file due to bad bits is no different than non-zipped file. Once the file is zipped, if nothing happens to it, it will NOT lose the data. Why use zip in the first place? Yes, to save space or to save bandwidth when transferring files over the Internet. Remember, while storage is cheap, the bandwidth, while getting cheaper, is not always cheap. Zip is used for purpose other than Karaoke.

As I stated before, if you have plenty of space, don't use zip. It's a personal choice. I have a 1TB NAS on my desktop and I am filling it up, so to me, zipping any files will give me some advantage.

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Seize the day and SING!!!

Bandwidth, yes I can see that.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

Back in the olden days when the Shack had the Z80 and Intel was the 8080 the medium of transfer was a cassette tape deck. More often than not the result was an IO/Error... ( max 64 MB) Along came the 5 1/4" floppy which was way better but still had IO/Error.. Then the 3 1/2" which was depenadable for a period of time anyway..  

Back then we would have killed for a method to store 80 GIG of music and access it with the dependability that we have now..

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I don't know why -- I can't. Essentially the OP has said -- "Zipping is black magic, and it is bad." There is no logic in that.

Yes it does. You are certainly more likely to win your state lottery, so I suggest you start buying tickets in that investment that has a negative 45% rate of return....

Yes, to save space -- and if you are trying to fit your music collection on a laptop without resorting to an external hard drive, it can be a real concern. Also, if you back things up regularly and have a hundred gigabytes to do, it can add a lot of time to that process. There are many, many, reasons for keeping storage small and zip is an outstanding and risk-free method of doing that. As others have said, the chance of losing data in a zipped file is no greater than losing data in any file. Actually, because there are algorithms that will fail if the data is retrieved wrong, the chances are probably *smaller*.

57,

And you point is..

exweed happen to be the person behind SON and he had developed a way to code a more stable graphic for karaoke with an even smaller file size. I respect  his view on this issue. but I also respect Eban when it come to anything computer. But You, mcky57, sorry, I still do not know you well enough.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

Fair enough. But you should respect my logic.

Fact -- Zip is a lossless compression program -- using several algrorithms, but mostly Phil Katz deflate method --  in use in just about every corporation in the Fortune 1000. If it was not really lossless, and was error prone, that would not be the case.

End of story -- if you can't see that, then I wouldn't much respect your good technical opinion of me if you gave it.

I don't necessarily expect you to believe me, but I am a computer programmer who has been in the business 30 years. I have been using zip and it's predecessors for 20 of those years. I have never had an error in a decompressed file. Never. And I have dealt with literally millions of those files.

Eben, my son:  Would you kindly read the post before responding to it.  The only algorithm I'm talking about is "x^y=NewColor" which is instruction 38 in the CDG file.  x being the old color look up table reference being currently displayed and y being the new offset.  So long as x is wrong once, x will always be wrong until the screen is cleared or the nasty blotch resulting from x being wrong is overwritten by command 6 which is not used nearly as much.  So, yeah, one bit out of what and it's f###ed.  You will notice, friend Eben, that I have not mentioned the zipping process, not at all, not once, zipping is irrelevent to any discussion of algorithms.

NOW, to zipping.  It is an unnecessary process.  If you're going from Seattle to Tacoma, why are you in Florida?  You don't need to be there.  You don't need to zip.
Airplanes don't crash very often, but you can't be in a plane crash if you don't get on the plane.  There is extra risk in going to Florida.  There is extra risk in zipping.  Now unless you are saying that computer hardware works perfectly, logically zipping represents an unnecessary risk to this very fagile file format.

Rubbish. If you have 80 G of music to fit on a 60G drive, it is necessary.

 

Your conclusion is as faulty as your analogy. In fact, inflating the file may find errors from a hard disk read that would not be found without it being present.

I don't know what put you off zip, but you are spreading fear, uncertainty, and doubt where none should be spread. It is a lossless compression algorithm, and the only thing you pay for in its use is some CPU cycles. In the context of most applications, it is risk-free.

On this issue, yes, I have respect and noted your background.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

 What?  You mean it really IS necessary to go to Florida in order to get from Seattle to Tacoma?  No wonder Seatac is always such a mess.

Must I remind you IT folks that the whole technology is based on shaking rocks, voltages so small you couldn't feel them on your tongue, and tiny changes in EM polarities being read at a speed that the reasonable mind can only assign numbers to without actually comprehending.  Heck boys, I'm not suprised it doesn't work perfectly, I'm suprised it works at all.

You old timers will remember this.
xcopy file1 file2 /v
The "/v" as you recall was for verify.  Make sure that it copied correctly, because there was a chance in those simple days that it wouldn't.  There's still a chance although smaller, but then, the computer is running a lot more overhead.  I guess I'm a leftover from those days when clock cycles were important and Mr. Bill was telling folks that no one would ever need more that 640K of RAM.  Zip if you like.
Play in traffic, wear your pants backwards, but don't poop in my hat and try to argue me into thinking it pudding.  An extra process is an extra process.

Again, please understand the basics before making conclusions. The old /v on the DOS days were used because the older disk drives did not have intelligence built in to them. Interfaces like ST-506 was a controller that was not based on intelligence. Now days, IDE, SCSI and other intelligent disk drives do the verification on it's own. You don't need the /v like you used to on the old ST-506 days.

The verification was there because the disk drives were not reliable, nothing to do with OS or zip or anything that was software.

I agree with mckyj57. I don't see how the analogy between the plane trip and the zipping files compare. I don't get it.

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Seize the day and SING!!!

heheh perchance the exweedfarmer kept some seed?

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

Jian when you describe these things, I'm conclusively certain you guys are using alien technology direct from that hangar in Arizona!

You missed the point again Eben.  I suspect you are a project manager for Microsoft.  Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to India to open a rib joint.

When lost for anything else, go for the ad-hominem.

Your continued intimations that the various lossless compression algorithms of zip are error prone without answering the points of others outs you -- you simply don't know what you are talking about.