Karaoke Forums

I agree. Music sets the tone.  I went throguh a period where I was buying and playing everything new I could find.  My good old crowd began leaving in droves.  the "punks" started coming in and fights began to start.  I ditched the "bad" music and within 2 weeks the trouble makers stopped coming in and the old crowd was back.

And I haven't looked back since.

Kelly

I agree with timberlea. I've worked in a variety of bars as entertainment, server, bouncer, Military police and Security guard ( hotel security ). So I've seen all sides of it. In that time, I have never seen a fight started because of the music. It MAY help it along a bit, but the fight would almost assuradly have happened anyways. Very Very seldom is the instigator compleatly sober. The music was just the Excuse. Any excuse would have been used. You know, fill in the blank......

Ask any cop and they will tell you, 90% of fights in bars are due to drinking. The other 10%, is a problem brought in to the bar, such as finding your wife in the bar with your EX best friend, etc. And if the fight didn't start right away, again, the drinking would have pushed it along and sooner or later....

BUT, I have seen the use of music along with a really savy bouncer or cop, help to difuse the situation by getting thier attention. Such as the feed back trick followed by a star performance of a VERY popular song. But that depends on how far along the fight was. Sometimes, only bashing heads and hand cuffs do the job. It's just the nature of the beast.

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"Real life doesn't start untill the music plays." LSK.

I agree the fights weren't CAUSED by the music, however in our case, the music was the reason we were drawing this type of crowd which in turn this type of crowd was the reason we had so many problems.  We got rid of that music, which got rid of that crowd, which got rid of the major problems.

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There is a lot of truth is Bogs' statement. It may not be the music per-say. The type of music you choose to play determent the type of crowd you have. If your club plays mostly oldies it will attract mostly matured people. There is less chance of a fight. The more regular customers you have the less the chance of a fight.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

A few times I couldn't do much.  I got 86'd from the bars. I can only remember one fight.. Had quite a shiner under my eye the next day... Even drunk off my A$$, the punch the guy returned to my forhead hurt like hell, sobered me up almost instantly in fact... Good thing the punch didn't land 2 inches lower... My nose would've been shattered...  The bar's I played in, and hung in averaged a few fights a week.. Only one gun pulled... Knives pulled quite abit in the 70's... Probably one of the nastiest fight's the Tin & Lint in Saratoga Springs has had in a long time... The Union and Colgate jackasses who road-tripped to visit the Skidmore girls weekends thought they were God's gift to Saratoga... After a few drinks their testosterone would be dripping from their ears..... Idiots... I'm not allowed in the T&L anymore, Well, it's been 30 years, maybe a different crew works there now...Dunno.... If the rafter's is still in Saratoga, I'm not allowed in there either... I had a bit of a problem in those days..

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I was once playing in this little lounge act at the Hi-Hat in Tigard.  It was a quiet Thursday night --- only a dozen or so people in the lounge.  There was one group of people sitting at a table not too far the the bandstand.  Everything seemed quiet and OK when all of a sudden that table of people just errupted.  One guy quickly stood up, started throwing punches at another guy and knocked over four other tables around him.  The night manager, a rather mild mannered very large man named Calvin, called the police then went about grabbing the man who was out of control. Calvin got the man down to the floor and literally sat on him until until the police arrived.  Frankly, it was really impressive how he took control.

And yes, the KJ's/musicicians should stay out of situations like this.  It's just not our responsibility.  There's too many legal and safety concerns at stake.

OK, the music CAN draw the kind of patrons that are more liable to fight, given the right stimulation. But that can't be taken as a rule. I have been to many redneck bars that also have a lot of bikers in it, And fights were VERY few and far between. And all they play is roudy redneck music. Now I can't speak for Rave bars or Thrash bars, cuz I have never been to one. But it seems that all the news you see abouit shootings and big bar trashing fights comes from these places. So I have only the news to go on for these places. But I have frequented almost every othert kind of bar and lounge and club, and have only seen regular fights in the more economically depressed places where they really only go to get drunk anyways. And most of those places don't have any entertainment cuz they don't need it and not many bands will play there. I refuse to play at a bar where my speakers need to be used as shields. And since I got out of the Navy, I rarely set foot into this kind of place, other than as a boucer. And that just ain't that much fun anymore..

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"Real life doesn't start untill the music plays." LSK.

In this situation it wasnt the music-- had played some top-40 hip-hop but also had played some country, disco, couple blues songs and some swing--even salsa and reggaeton and everyone was content and calm. Trouble started when the obnoxious drunk guy came in(the one that got his scalp......scalped) he pretty much deserved what he got. So Im of the opinion it has nothing to do with the music---its drunk girls running thier mouths and knukclehead guys with something to prove. I thought about the feedback trick--but by that time it was WAAAAAAAAAAAY out of control.

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

CROWD CONTROL EQUALS THE TYPE OF MUSIC PLAYED.   If you don't have the music that the trouble makers want to scream in to the mikes, then they won't be there.    A bar down the street from one I play at, has fights all the time.  Nobody over 30.   Go figure.   Think they listen to oldies?   Spare me.  Too many of these newer (I call them angry) rock-urban songs in a row, will most definatelyy get them pumped up to the point of explosion.   Pretty hard to explode over a beautiful Barry Manilow tune.

As far as the feed back trick.  Are you nuts?  [highlight=crimson]That sounds like the best way to blow out your speakers, I ever heard.[/highlight]   Must be cheap enough to replace.   No girl scout cookies that week.  

I get on the mike and tell the sissys to knock it off.   Or I'll hit them with my purse.

Never blew a speaker yet, and I've worked with some that are worth $10,000 per side. It's called knowing you equipment and it's limits. But that comes from using so many diff. types and in so many situations. Like if I was running my speakers near max. I wouldn't even think of doing it. But I try to leave lots of lee-way. You know, just in case there's a local riot that needs quelling..



I knew that...[/quote]

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"Real life doesn't start untill the music plays." LSK.

I see you're in Mexico now.

I agree that music selection can be the root of all evils for a club and also it's savior.  Depending on the type of clientele a club wants to attract determines the music format I use.  I program a clubs music offerings based on conversations with the owners, managers, staff and normal regulars I get to know.  I find out what type of demographics the club ideally would like to fill their bar.  I discuss music genres and their pros/cons of each.  Categories like country, rock, pop, rap, top 40, classic rock, 50's, 60's and 70's music, disco, techno, 80's, grunge, alternative and dance.  These all can be used to attract different age, sex, race, income levels, maturity levels and customer temperament.  I take into account the history of the place I am playing in (what formats they have used before) and find out why things changed or what made them change formats.  I take into account the existing clientele- ages, gender, spending habits etc to help me determine exactly what music I will play in the club and what music I will not even admit to having.  A DJ with a thorough understanding of the club's customers musical tastes and an understanding of the club's desired demographic to attract is a powerful tool to be used as crowd control.  If I have a group of rowdy or out of control customers being fueled by alcohol and the awesome music I am playing then I can totally change the energy of the room by playing a totally opposite genre of music... If I get a buncha ruff and tuff rednecks causing problems and I want them to leave without saying a word to them I can play a 3 or 4 song set (or more) of dance remixes or rap/R&B music.  I promise they won't stay long.  I can control the energy of the room with the push of a button and the sliding of a fader.  I always keep a copy of "Kung Fu Fighting" ready to go if things go ugly

 I have worked many clubs as both KJ and bouncer and usually at the same time I ran karaoke 7 nights a week for a little over a year at one club where I was entertainment coordinator (DJ/KJ/explain big words to management) and Head of Security.  I usually had at least 1 altercation every night, sometimes, especially on thursday thru saturday, 3 or more altercations per night.   Matt (knightshow) visited on several occasions and saw me in action a few times.  It was a very intense and high stress position to be in- throw the bum out in time ot get back to the KJ booth before the song ends and to get up the next singer (and make sound adjustments before returning to my job as bouncer).  I don't suggest this combination of positions for ANYONE I am 5'1 on a good hair day and I am just under 200LBS with a stocky frame and whenever a table full of my regulars would see me jump over the KJ booth counter to take care of whatever the problem was, they would start singing the mighty mouse theme song at the top of their lungs boy, the stories I have from that place...

stalkers, pimps, drug dealers and tweekers.. OH MY!!!

by the time I ended my tour of duty there it was a decent and respectable place to come to... in it's own twisted way, it was one of the funnest jobs I have ever had


 I usually make it clear to any bar management that I won't hesitate to jump in and to protect my singers or their customers if the establishment does not have security and protections in place already.  I have an extensive martial arts and club security background and have no problem offering a place my services or taking charge of a situation that has gotten out of hand.  If there is no security, I always try to let the bar staff (bartenders etc) or management take care of %99.9 of any problems they have in THEIR bar but if they ask me to take care of an issue or if things suddenly go from annoying idiot to physical confrontation then I won't hesitate to protect customers or staff and will deal with the consequences later.  

 I couldn't deal with someone getting hurt because I stood back and watched the situation "hoping" someone else will find a solution to the problem... The majority of problems can be talked down before they get physical, and I prefer to end a problem with a solution and a handshake without physical actions being taken, but some times the idiot makes the decision for ya and they get dragged out of the bar by the oompa loompa lookin mo-fo... it always hurts their feelings the most when the shortest dude in the bar "escorts" them outside... I would rather buy them a beer and avoid physical solutions but whens they gots to go, they gots to go...


"here he comes to save the daaaaAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!"

Tig

I saw a guy end up with a cracked eye socket, broken ribs, missing teeth. He had an ambulance ride.   He went crazy and started smashing stuff in the bar after his girlfriend had a drink spilled on her or she spilled a drink on someone and other people started getting involved.   5-6 regulars punished him.    I came out from behind the table to hold onto my speaker.    Normally, I would have bent down behind the table, to tie my shoe.  LMAO  :whistle:  :D   I know it wasn't music related, because I had Bing Crosby songs playing all night.

Timber, You have been there after the fact.   You heard what started the fight, but you don't know how the music may have altered the mood of the fighters, to get them into a fighting mood.   I am willing to bet that it wasn't Bing Crosby songs.

Not every fight is music related, but it sometimes can help.    That's why I like the flow to be up and down like the waves on a gentle sea.   Take them up a little and bring them down again.     Don't make them climb the walls and leave them there.  Get them back down.

Alcohol, Heat, Youth, m/f crowded in same area is enough alone to ignite things... Although music can be somewhat of a factor regarding certain behaviour, I'd think given the conditions where you have Alcohol and kids alone, or alcohol, hot and tired uncomfortable people, anything additional such as music or just looking at somebody who doesn't want to be looked at, talking to someone who's going out with so & so, all becomes incidental.... Alcohol, testosterone, heat alone is a pretty nasty condition. Alcohol boost's aggressive behaviour.  My thought's are that if someone is prone to fighting when drinking & annoyed, whether the music is charged, or even something he (or she) hates because it's a slow and boring song...the music is just a remote element.

Plenty of fight's break out in bars with no music as well.. Certain conditions alone are potentially unstable to begin with.... "bar" settings aren't a great random sample for a true test of "How music affects sober together people". There've been quite a few rowdy concerts with crowds too, noone got hurt....Sort've like Altamont, Was it the fact that the Rolling Stones were playing "Sympathy for the Devil" that caused a shooting ?  Or conditions aside from that ?  Music might be "the last straw" that appears to cause a person to start taking shot's at a person, but there's fundamentally plenty nasty stuff going on even without the music to set the stage..

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Maybe music control is the problem for other bars, but not mine.
My average crowd age I would say is around 40 years old. The songs sung
are your everyday songs, seldom any rap or heavy metal. Name a song that you'd think would bring in a fighting crowd and I bet I don't have it sung in my bar.

The fights that break out for me are usually people who get drunk, jealous boyfriends and guys trying to proof there tough. I almost had a cat fight break out one night and I diffused it by calling up one of the girls to sing. I don't think I have EVER had a fight break out because of karaoke.

The last 3 fights I can remember -

Guy gets mad because another guy is banging on the bathroom door.

Guy gets jealous because someone hit on his girlfriend.

Guy gets mad because he thought someone stold his money off the bar.

It's a bar with a lot of people. People are drinking and possibly doing drugs.
It is hard for me to believe just because a swearing rock song comes on a person will decide to hit someone else.

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[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

Yeah Bab's... How a night of Steppenwolf, or Fast Funk will affect a group of 55 year olds Sunday at the art museum Gazebo just isn't the same as how it will affect 18 year olds at a Friday night crowded singles bar with alcohol factored in...

For that reason,  I don't think music type is enough to play much into it... Somebody who's unstable enough might snap if the top to their toothpaste tube get's lost.. That doesn't mean "The toothpaste was the cause".

Bar fights were prevalent in the 60's and 70's.  So much so, that a bar fight last night, likely wouldn't even be novel enough to mention in a room like this the following day..  Of course in the 60's and 70's, ALOT more people were consuming larger quantities of Alcohol at a younger age, law's just weren't that strict 35 years ago... (With laws alot more lax, 14 year olds were commonly sneaking into bars with fake ID's and never getting carded, it was a different period with a younger drinking age). Alcohol alone is known to set a stage for more aggressive behaviour in many/ Impulse control issues, etc..  I doubt much has changed in this respect over the years, this would also make sense as to why there are fewer bar fights, road fatalities weekend nights, etc... Those of us that survived those times, and now stay sober..Had to learn someplace, and at sometime in the past... For many of us, it was "the bar" where we started to learn, we can't drink...

Late 60's, early 70's..  As soon as our friends got their driver's licenses. We hung in bars (15-17) most High School males in my area frequented one of several bars every firday night....One that had live entertainment was tougher to get into only being 16, and this was only because of repeated fight's, that they decided on their own carding at the door was wisest while collecting the covercharge (in hopes of keeping we younger punks with fake ID's out).. This wasn't compulsory however, bar's didn't HAVE to card at the door... More than not, over 18 bought the minor's drinks... (bartenders WERE supposed to card, but law's weren't strict assuming they didn't card a minor) Laws weren't tough on those of us carrying fake Licenses around either... They were available quite easily...  Another interesting thing in those days.... Chain smoking 13 year olds weren't terribly uncommon... Quite a few I knew in Jr High were already buying 3 packs a day.  I had my first cigarette at 8.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

If there wasn't karaoke in my bar I'm sure there would still be fights.
Then I guess it would be the juke boxes fault.

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[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

Exactly.... Music is art. That would be like blaming Picaso for the first world war. Fact is, music can't start a fight, only people can. Saying it was the music is just an excuse. The real cause was something in the personality of the person. Yes, music can help bring it about, but that is not the fault of the music, just the fault of the person listening.

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"Real life doesn't start untill the music plays." LSK.

Exactly how I feel.  While music is an area of aesthetics which DOES stir a certain amount of emotion... To say "Music made me do it",  show's about as much maturity and composure as Charlie Manson saying "They Beatles were sending messages to me to do it"...  IF you're out've control, it's your problem, not the unicorns you were defending yourself against. It can appear to be a fine line, but the bottomline is really what it comes down to.  The person is unstable, it just doesn't take much in such a case to ignite them

Although Echo,  I've gotten sick at a few of these "Modern Art" exhibits from some of the awkward displays.. Some are made to induce real dischord...

Oh yeah.... I'm not overly stable though     I forgot for a brief moment

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

We've had Goths, punks, bikers, etc who have never gotten into fights and they were singing songs related to their interests.  I have never heard anyone state the music caused them to fight, either as a law enforcement officer or hosting or attending karake, a band, a concert or DJ music.

Can music get people excited, of course, however it will not cause fights.  Drunks, obnoxious behaviour, and hitting on someone does.

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