Karaoke Forums

It really never crossed this womans mind, especially being the new face,
that if she repeatedly used this same tactic on everyone it wouldn't soon become
evident ?  

I have been tempted to comment several times upon reading this thread but I have continued to just let it go by. I figure my two cents worth will mean nothing to anyone but me anyway. However, I have now been on the end of the very thing that jvj has been talking about. I would love to say, hey, it is just a karaoke site and it did not bother me. I even tried to laugh it off and suggest to myself that it did not matter to me. As much as I realize that I have way more going for me musically outside of SS than I do in SS, I did find that it bothered me.  The reason is because I have come to find myself really enjoying SS and the people I meet. You have become my friends and to me, there is nothing much more important in this world than friends. I love my music.  Every week I step onto a stage after an introduction.  I see the smiling faces and hear the applause of many many people who have paid their good hard earned money to listen to me and the band play for a few hours. I have never felt anything like hearing myself on the radio for the first time, it was absolutely incredible, but still something was missing. I have found something in SS that has been good for me and I think it is due to a close bond through music with people I can now call my friends. So, it was a natural hurt when I had a song that had set for over a week with a  10 and I was proud of that ten! To me, it was the approval of other singers, some of them I have extreemly high respect for such as jvj, Chamjam, Amy, Crystal, Charmin, Gilly and several others.  It made me feel a sense of accomplishment that was good to me. I know the score does not mean I am good or bad, there is much more to be said for the encouraging words I find from those who listen to me. I really appreciate that a lot! Maybe it is just me having a bad day or bad week! But it did  bother me that one person could come in and drop my 10 to a 9.5! Some would say I should be proud I have a 9.5 and quit whinning about it!  Maybe they are right. Here is the truth of the matter. I dont mind that the score dropped like that. What bothered me was having someone say that I had done a great job then my score dropped. The person and I have already talked about this and I dont mean to bring up something that should be dead and gone, it is only to make a point that I agree with jvj. If the score a person gives someone was listed on his comment, where everyone could see it, then maybe things could be better for everyone concerned. Am I happy with my9.5? Oh yeah! I am honored that anyone would consider anything I do worth a 9.5! I appreciate that! but I do want to know why someone lowers my score. Maybe I did miss something when I subbed a song. Maybe it was not the best I could do and maybe if I knew the things that were wrong, I could have fixed it.  I am not perfect, even though like most everyone else, we all want to see ourselves in the bright lights and under the star!  Anyway, I have a lot of respect for those of you who have written so far on this thread, and I think you will understand where I am trying to go with this.  I am not whinning! I will take it like a man! I just wonder if there is not a better way to insure total fairness in the system. Most of you have been here much longer than I have.  lol I have become a real rambler here and I am sorry to take up your reading space! Thanks for the opportunity to just say a few words on your thread! Thanks!

um texas...

a nine is NEAR perfect. That translates to a "great job"... at least to me.

8 is VERY GOOD
7 is GOOD

any one of those given to you and the words "great job" STILL applies!

I guess I need a break... this junk is getting to me! !

my gawd... where to begin... upping of meds is required I believe... without going into the sickness that ranking and ratings causes, I will try to keep it simple and on track using as few words as possible...

"Perfect is in the ear of the listener"
one person's "10" is another person's "9" etc... a 7,8, or 9 may be as good as someone is going to give ANY sub.  You can't dictate that because everyone else gave a 10 or 9.8 (whatever) that everyone must agree to stay within that range... they can still say it was a great song, you did a great job, fluff fluff fluff and still be given a 7,8 or 9. they may not be able to communicate effectively exactly WHY they gave it a less than 10 score, but to THEIR ear, it did not merit a perfect 10... or 9... or 8.. it is solely THEIR decision to what they rank you, whether you like it or not, and the present ranking of a song should NOT be factored in to a persons decision on what to score that sub.  if you cannot deal with a decimal drop in your ranking then you have bigger problems in your life than can be fixed with a perfect 10... -tig

Well personally, I don't see how showing rank given along with comments will help matters much, it would more than likely bring on a whole new set of problems, such as everyone handing out 10's just so they will in turn be given a high ranking. Also, the point I was trying to address earlier had nothing to do with being dissatisfied with a certain rank, I was trying to address the fact that this member actually claims to be giving a 10, and then after they visit your rank drops, that's not an honest critique/ranking, that's lying, and assuming that others won't be able to pick up on it.   This is ridiculous to me, because it's not getting this person anywhere, I mean lawyers and politicians lie, it's there job, but this is just silly.  The drama continues:)

_________________
Satisfaction is the death of desire

                         An essay on honest critique
                 
'Brilliant', 'Quite Good', 'What?', these are just some of the comments made recently in the press regarding honest critique. Underestimate honest critique at your peril. Given that its influence pervades our society, several of todays most brilliant minds seem incapable of recognising its increasing relevance to understanding future generations. The juxtapositioning of honest critique with fundamental economic, social and political strategic conflict draws criticism from socialists, many of whom fail to comprehend the full scope of honest critique. Keeping all of this in mind, in this essay I will examine the major issues.

Social Factors

Society is a simple word with a very complex definition. When blues legend 'Bare Foot D' remarked 'awooooh eeee only my dawg understands me' [1] he must have been referning to honest critique. A child’s approach to honest critique helps to provide some sort of equilibrium in this world of ever changing, always yearning chaos.

Did I mention how lovely honest critique is? Society is powered by peer pressure, one of the most powerful forces in the world. As long as peer pressure uses its power for good, honest critique will have its place in society.

Economic Factors

The dictionary defines economics as 'the social science concerned with the production, distribution, exchange, and consumption of goods and services'. We will primarily be focusing on the Simple-Many-Pies model. Taking special care to highlight the role of honest critique within the vast framework which this provides. Cost
Of
Living

 honest critique


Clearly the graphs demonstrates a strong correlation. Why is this? Recent studies indicate that the cost of living sings a very different tune. The financial press seems unable to make up its mind on these issues which unsettles investors.

Political Factors

Politics was once a game featuring competitors from elite classes. Comparing the ideals of the young with the reality felt by their elders is like contrasting honest critiqueism and post- honest critiqueism.

In the words of nobel prize winner Augstin Tuigamala 'Taking a walk across hot coals will inevitably hurt your feet.' [2] What a fantastic quote. If I may be as bold as to paraphrase, he was saying that 'political ideals are built on the solid cornerstone of honest critique.'

I wait anxiously. What will the next few years bring for honest critique?
Conclusion

In summary, honest critique has played a large part in the development of man in the 20th Century and its influence remains strong. It replenishes the self, brought up a generation and is a joy to behold.

The final say goes to the award winning Mariah Love Hewitt: 'I demand honest critique, nothing more nothing less.' [3]



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[1] Bare Foot D - Classic - 1967 Stinton Records

[2] Tuigamala - Captain Sir - 1844 Inevitable Publishing

[3] Weekly honest critique - Issue 54 - Rhino Media

I love this one

_________________
I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

In the logical sense you are correct Nathan.  Yet troubled unhappy people often feel compelled to bring down others.  As in "misery demands company". If you read her bio, this person dreams of becoming "pro". For all we know, she might consider the talent in here a threat. Perhaps she perceives certain comments, and her own ranking in here to be a slap in the face.  Although what she's doing is extremely immature and deceitful, likely even viciously competitive, she's been caught.


If you folks can somehow refuse to allow HER illness to affect you, transcend this tantrum of hers, and give back to yourselves that which she tried to take from you, you've all taken the higher road. I don't know for certain what type of statement this woman is trying to make in here, and like most of you, I'd be bothered as well if I was at the receiving end of what appears to be cut throat tactics.  Yet if her comments, and rankings given are dishonest, her dissidence driven by HER own illness, and her objective to knock you down,  her efforts to lower all of your ranks means nothing. It's not an accurate reflection of your material. Her intent isn't to critique you at all.


I usually consider myself fortuneate to not have to live with a type of anger that drives people to want to do this type of thing to others.  This woman is not a happy person. This is best perceived as being HER problem. Consider your ranks to be what they'd have been had she never joined SS.

Again, the problem *I* take issue with here, and as many of you are also pointing out, is not that this person (or any other person for that matter), listens to a '10' ranked song and says to herself 'hmm, well that's no 10!', then honestly states WHY and ranks the song accordingly.

Heck, you ALL know that I've been there myself. I've taken down '10's (and other ranks), but when I critique, the rank I give has nothing to do with what other folks rank a song, I rank the way I hear them. But, that's not the problem here. The problem is that this person is LYING about her ranking.

"WOW! It's a 10 from me!!" (and actually gives the song something lower).

RANKS GIVEN IN COMMENTS SHOULD BE VISIBLE!!! And until they are, I will always state what rank I have given when I do critique. I hope others join me in that effort. Of course, it doesn't pre-empt people, like this girl, straight out LYING about what we give, but hopefully the system will be changed back and that will no longer be a problem.

Okay, I must admit. I worked all day yesterday on Wysteria and gave it my best shot.. really. And not expected, but appreciated a variety of people all rated it a 10.
Well, I still have tons of things up for people to rate, but this morning Syber and I looked at each other and I said.. I am am going to keep this one. And I did. We captured the comments and I will put others up. I am going to have to eventually transfer my originals to our web site. I am not going to promo our site but those who know it will be able to check out more stuff there.

There is no doubt a comment made that a '10' is in the ears of the beholder. Well, yes, subjectively at least. And the rating system as I see it here is more like an 8-10 range with 8 being this was not so terrific and a 10 being this was helluva good - either for a karaoke board or period. As ML, a performer, and on the radio said, and Jazzy - there is that wince, when things drop. I think the honesty in admitting that kind of sinking thing... is normal as well as we mostly bite our lip and say - okay I'm a mature person and this is life.

I think this thread has evolved to where we have something different. That is a person who is well - not really helping an artist who puts something up for critique in order to improve their music.

Another user commented up the possible fluff horrors of seeing what you rate people. It is a catch 22.

Lastly back to MLs comments. We are performers too and that is a very special experience, yet there is a sense of community here is SS. Even in a Karaoke bar, there are no forums or discussions like this, and I had NEVER done Karaoke until about a year or so ago. I saw it in movies, I read about it, but let me tell you, somewhere in the backwoods in a TINY karaoke setup, I did my first Karaoke thing, and it was way different.

Now I have outdone myself and rambled far past the time to stop rambling.  Thanks to all who have posted on the thread. jvj

_________________
There are no accidents in a perfect world   - Blondie

Seby & JVJ,

  What I'm assuming based on the number of people this individual dragged down, was that she felt lowering the highest scores would boost her standing on a curve.

   Perhaps this person felt a 9.4 is only acceptable if she wiped out the 10's and lowered the ranks above her own.

I agree Jean, about a year ago, I did my very first karaoke tune. I just happened to stumble up on a person, who since has become a friend of mine, doing a karaoke show and had talked my daughter into singing a song. I was facinated at the thought that the words to songs could actually come up on a screen. I have to admit that even though I am constantly playing music and singing, I really did not know karaoke existed until that moment. I could not resist trying a tune myself and you are very right, it was way different than singing with my band.  Karaoke is not a bad thing, just way different. I did have fun! And now, when I have time, I go sit in and help my friend run her shows. I dont get to do that often but when I do, it is a lot of fun.
I really do like the sense of community that I feel here Jean, I think that is the main reason I keep coming back! I like to hear music, I like to talk to other singers, whether they be performers such as yourself or the karaoke singers. The way I look at it is, singing is singing! It still takes a lot of talent to do any of it right, and you have to give credit to anyone who tries.  I think I have made some really nice friends here at SS, and I really hope that people will consider me their friend. People dont always agree, especially in families. But in the end, families hang together and move on.  lol I am big enough to as you suggested, bite my lip and say, I can handle this. I think probably everyone at one point or another does this. Sometimes it is easier than at others. Sometimes you just need to go take a long walk or as I am fortunately able to do, pick up my guitar, get with the band, and when I hear the sweet sound that comes out of the fiddle, or the lonesome cry of our steel guitar, it seems that all my cares can  get swept away! At least for awhile.  
I was looking for your sub that you pulled! I thought it was exceptional. I dont know where your website is but if you would send me the address in a pm, I would love to visit it and listen to the things you do. I have  been totally honest in that I really feel you have great talent and I really admire your work, in writing your own songs or in performing those written by others.  There is a real quality in your work that I appreciate.  
I am going to quit rambling and simply end by saying thank you for putting this thread together to give me a chance to say something about the subject of this thread. It was, sorry to admit, bothering me somewhat. My situation has been cured in that I had some conversation with the individual, and it was, I feel settled very peacefully. That is the way I like it!  He suggested that it was a mistake in not knowing the system. I will give someone the benefit of doubt and move on.  Jean, thanks for your time listening to me.  And thanks to everyone else looking into this thread for letting me ramble on and on. Ok, done!

Similarly,  so do other competing performers sometimes. Occassionally a competing artist with an ego problem will lie and cheat as well, and I believe this is exactly what we are seeing here. In my experiences, the fierce competitor is no new concept.  The "wannabe famous" person might try to make something of themselves in various ways.  Early January a girl in here submitted some professional Floridian woman named "McCleans" music to attempt to get "her day in the sun". In this case, a woman is likely trying to shorten your legs to stand taller. Where there's competition there will always be certain people who go to immense extremes, and cheat to win or be the best.  What we are likely seeing here isn't much different than why a lawyer, or politician might lie. They want to win !  Most by time they are adults settle for being part of a team. They want to earn their rank, and play the game maintaining dignity. While some might secretly wish they were the best, and settle for this being a dream, occasionally the crazed person comes along who might actually take a tire-iron to the kneecaps of the other cheerleaders on her team, and poison the prettiest girl in order to be "the best".   Envy, and jealousy cause certain sick individuals to do sick things..  Thank God these sick individuals are few and far between.

I know when I was younger, there were times as a musician I got "smoked" by someone much younger who hadn't been playing all that long. We all get humbled at some point. In here, some of you folks are so damn talented, If I were an aspiring professional vocalist what I see in here might very well serve as cold water to my face that there are MANY in the world in the amateur group that are ALOT more talented than I. When the sickeningly talented musician crawled out've the woodwork  when I was performing, naturally the half-jokes would fly back and forth....  "Let's break the kids fingers", or  "I wish his guitar would go badly out've tune" naturally just remained whispers and snickered dialogue . While I never cheated or lied or hurt another person as a touring musician, my own competitive drive and desire to be the best caused me much anguish.  I loathed coming in second or third place in competitions. I also experienced ALOT of cut-throat episodes, and experienced alot of hurt by others that had no respect for "the code of the road". I got replaced a few times. Competition can be painful.

Where there's competition, occassionally the person who actually does bribe the judges, and attempt to rig the system shows their ugly face    In the case of this particular woman, it's quite likely that in her hurting mind, a way she can be the best in here with a "9", does in fact involve "The death of the 10"

While a fantasy or "pipe dream" of mine might very well be to release a blues submission in here with me singing better than Gary Moore, I can't. My own rank in terms of singing ability is a generous "2" on the 10 scale.  So friendships, and being part of a group will have to suffice.