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RIGHT - and mine was just a statement also - I didn't ask you to care.



I know the girl was torked because her sister said her weight was more than it was. She was upset because she was told she was fat - so I'm pretty sure it was the other way around -- she didn't think she was fat so why would she have corrected her sister by telling her she weighed more than the sister said... but whatever... it doesn't matter. It's not going to affect the price of tea anywhere.



Taken from some prepress quotes:
Sisters Mandy, Erin and Melissa Maynard, who are 18-year-old triplets, drove from Omaha with $6. They camped outside of the stadium for 20 hours and then planned to camp inside for 24 more.
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I would call this having a dream of being a singer --- then being let through to the star judges would give them hope that would come true. But then to have "perfect" judges tell them they are too fat to be able to sing (which basically is what it interprets to in my book - but just my book). So then being told this in front of millions of tv viewers wouldn't SHRED their dream? (yes I realize this happened months ago - but you know what I mean)

AllStar -- who always pi**es in your beverage? You infer that I'm over-sensitive. Ok - maybe I am - but maybe there are reasons behind that. But I guess I don't call 'having a heart' being a bad thing. Wish there were more people out there like that instead of ones that I get to talk to every day that are out for blood with whomever they come in contact with.

NOTE - I didn't say that pertained to you - I just meant that it's too bad that people in the world think it's a bad thing to actually be nice to other people.

'k - I'm done now - I didn't think this thread would cause a problem.

Hey Shotgun Cindy:

Don't you think that this weight issue is all very ironic when almost nightly on TV they talk about how obesitity has become an epidemic in the U.S.

So are we to take that means that since we're all gaining more and more weight that eventually the music will die because there won't be any skinny people left to sing? (For the media to say "epidemic" this can be a possibility.)

Just ramblin....

Ahhhhhh, the money thing. That's what they all say, it's a standard way of begging for sympathy, the camping, hey they should enjoy that. I love camping
The same goes for each and every person that says "I believe I'm the next AI" , instead of "I'm here to do my best, and may the best person win!"


#1. Nobody pi**es in my soup, I am as a matter of fact a very happy person, but believe in a black and white world, no shades of grey. Much easier to live like that then to let emotions run (ruin?) your life.
#2. Having a heart is not a bad thing at all, but don't let it get to you.



You're a sweetheart!

It didn't. We are just having a difference of opinion, discussing it like grown-up's

Foxy, You might just have a point there. Remember the song by
Buggles - Video Killed The Radio Star From the Album - Age Of Plastic
That's about when ugly/fat/un-attractive people stopped making really good music, because looks were more important. Just listen to todays (mostly crap) music, and compare the musical quality with the pre-70's music when musical skills were more important then perky boobs. Those days music was sold on the basis of music, not looks!

Excerpt from an interesting article in the Lebrecht weekly from about 9 months ago


the new century is more visually oriented than the old, and twice as judgemental. Today’s divas are slinky young things, some kitted out like Kylie. The dominant American soprano, Renee Fleming, has squeezed into a leather body-suit for a record cover. The up and coming tenors - Cura, Licittra, Flores, Verazzon – could fit collectively into one pair of Fat Lucy’s pants with no diminution of volume. Big singers are dropping fast, out of fashion and out of sight.

Pavarotti himself is about to be assailed by a tell-all memoir written by his long-term US publicist and manager, Herbert Breslin. It is a rise and fall story of ‘a beautiful, simple, lovely guy who turned into a very determined, aggressive and somewhat unhappy superstar’. As he extends his wearisome farewells into a series of British concerts this summer, the big man may pause to wonder how he will be remembered by posterity. Will it be as the most exquisite lyrical voice of his epoch, or as an artist who outgrew his art by craving wealth and celebrity and conforming more to Oprah expectations than to the sensibilities of grand opera? Pavarotti grew famous by growing fat. That was both his triumph and his tragedy.



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TIME OUT!!!

Foxe I do agree that its hurtful to have your dreams shredded in front of millions of TV viewers, but as a contestant, I knew that was a possibility trying out for a show like that- If you get past round 2, you have to sign a release that very specifically says "AI RESERVES THE RIGHT TO USE YOUR IMAGE AND LIKENESS IN ANY EMBARRASSING OR RIDICULING MANNER IN ALL FORMS OF MEDIA" so you kinda set yourself up for it- cruel or not, I kind of have to admit that if they are stupid enough to take the bait, and human nature is to watch that kind of train wreck, well then, we have made our beds...

ANd remember- they cut and paste for TV- Paula not making comments could have been cut out, conversations can be rearranged- you never know- Round 2 folks auditioning for Nigel Lythgoe are filmed on EXACTLY the same background as the round 3 kids so they can splice it together- they will even encourage you to wear the same outfit so their film splices better.

I think whats crueler than Simons comments, is the fact that these horrendous singers have families and friends that are LYING TO THEM. Of all people that need to be honest, its them. Simon is doing what any agent or exec in showbusiness does- brutal horrid honesty. i have been to a couple auditions, and they say worse to you, and just because it isnt on national TV doesnt make it any easier to hear.

I feel personally, that if I got to Simon and he laughed at me like that, I would be out for my friends and famillies blood for fluffing my ego unneccessarily and contributing to a dream that i had no chance of ever succeeding at- that would hurt me worse than anything Simon could ever say.

Oh btw my darling adorable Allstar- - The girl said her sister weighed 160, then her sis got pissed and said NO ITS 150!!! And they began bickering after that- I taped it last night, as I will every night looking for glimpses of people I met on my surreal journey

Since we are all nit picking and all .

Now everybody get along or i will make you sit on your hands.

Or my hands.

Yah that would be more fun.

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I guess maybe the 'emotional' me does buy into that but that's because I came from that --- I remember very very well when my parents had $.06 in their checking acct and that was right after pay day and we needed to buy things. My parents still literally live each and every day from pay check to pay check. I remember very well of having to make do with things and not getting new things because there was literally no money for it, unlike most kids that get everything new now a days regardless of whether there's money or not. I will always remember those things -- so yes when someone says things like that I tend to really believe them. Yes maybe that does make for a foolish me, but there are always some cases where this is the entire truth.

What about Regina from the night before on AI? She cried tears because she had to sell something in order to get to the auditions. She chose her wedding rings over her karaoke machine -- because she has a DREAM of singing (wonder if her dream includes her hubby? -- My hubby wouldn't be so pumped to let me pawn my wedding rings for anything).

I'm sorry I just can't watch these shows as "entertainment only" because these aren't actors on a stage. They are real people that put their hearts on the line and bare their souls in a lot of cases. Yes - not letting emotions "run" their lives would make it easier but then would they really ever believe in anything or have any hopes or dreams? Why not just become a machine then?

That's kind of sad AllStar. I wouldn't want to live that way, never feeling anything. Glad it works for you but it wouldn't for me.

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[font=andalus]We Are the Music Makers, and We are the Dreamers of Dreams...
We are the Movers and Shakers of the World Forever it Seems...[/font]

*quietly saying* Sorry Heather.......


I'd calmed down and was having a nice adult conversation now with AllStar (I think).

You are completely right that they know, or should know, what could happen. I just think it's sad that we "enjoy" this so much that it makes for ratings and actually makes it onto tv.

Kind of like that show, was it last year, about the "Worst Singer" and they thought they were trying out for the "Best Singer" thing. I just feel bad for people that are put out on public display like that.

I also don't think it's fair that some of the people that can't sing are led through all these rounds but then there are some like yourself that can sing very well and don't make it through, just because of ratings.

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[font=andalus]We Are the Music Makers, and We are the Dreamers of Dreams...
We are the Movers and Shakers of the World Forever it Seems...[/font]

Not to step on anyone's toes, but I agree with Heather's comments 100%.

I think it's super sweet of ya, Foxey-Cindy, to be so concerned about folk's feelings.... and heck, I may be critical, and I may joke about being 'like Simon', but in reality *I* would never rip someone up like that (unless I had already tried to explain to them nicely that they were not good enough and they just wouldn't listen - as happens a LOT on AI).

EDIT (i forgot to say some stuff... ):

One thing that DOES get under my skin however, is when Simon (sometimes the others also) take that nasty attitude with someone who is truly talented... as it sounds like those twins may have been. In that case, it's just WRONG to put someone out because of their weight.

One thing I would consider though, if a person is 'heavy' (or even just a little overweight) and trying to audition for AI or something similar, I think it would make a HUGE difference if that person really made an effort to look totally class at the audition. I have seen some large women who really knew how to dress, and I can't see how anyone would be able to degrade their looks for being heavy.

Here are a few examples... some of these women aren't that much overweight, but they all look specatacular (I think).

http://www.villasanta.com/fashions/BBW.jpg

and how about http://www.bbwmagazine.com/ - just look around that mag website. These are some classy larger women.

As for the men, it's unfortunate but true that women are more discriminated against for being overweight than men are. It's just a fact of life. I CAN however, easily picture a large woman making it to the 'top-10' on AI eventually. I think it will happen.

And I love you to Heather ps. How's the belly (Oops ....baby) doing?

Oh that's not true. I have feelings, I just prefer not to walk around with them on my sleeves.

I never claimed it to be a bad thing. I just said it should not run your life.

That was my point as well.

Despite some of the dispassionate facts I posted in here regarding the performing arts, I agree 100% with Cindy on this issue. Regardless of what might happen, noone with dreams doesn't suffer when they are publically ridiculed. I didn't see the performance, yet from what you are stating the girls DID have talent, and were ridiculed for a non-related issue. Easy for us to detach somewhat, yet if I got up the nerve to compete at that level, and even Simon knocked me down because I was "fat", my dreams would be shattered. Rejection is tough enough without acid thrown in ones face in addition. Remember, just as we say to those we think are decent "go for it, and take the risk". These girls got the same coaching, by friends and family that likely weren't lying to them.
I too got caught up in the "what happens" in the industry aspect overlooking how I felt when I was rejected, and for that, I was wrong


so I'd lose sleep over it

I would be curious to know how many Bulemic/Anorexic (spelling?) folks have been 'created' by Simon's remarks...

I know if I went through all of that only to be told I was 'too fat' (and I was young enough to try again), I would be STARVING myself until next year. Pretty detrimental to the body.

Syber, or worse. Going home angry at the world, hating yourself, having your one dream shattered, and losing all zest for life. No reason to want to diet. No esteem to ever sing again. Not all cope well with this type of situation, regardless of what they might sign beforehand, We don't go into competitions thinking we will get crapped on. I wonder if enough thought is really put into preparing competitors for possible failure, and rejection and how to deal with it. It's a VERY real aspect of all performances. I know I was never told that it's OK if I get a Charlie horse during a piano recital, and start hopping around like a nutcase, or if I made a mistake, not to give it a second thought as long as I tried my best. Those were never options.

Well, I am fat, and audition time is coming up, and I am sitting here eating pie. NO starving myself, on MY behalf:)



Mmmmm......

Geeezzzzz Steven, don't you think you are throwing the baby out with the bathwater here? You make it sound as if this world is made up of all insecure people. Damn, you take life as it comes. If it hits you to the floor, you get up, shake your head like a wet dog, and grab life by the balls again and run with it. Not every one is suicidal you know! You have to be really insecure to let something silly like the AI competition, or any competition get to you in such a melodramatic fashion. Sit in a corner and cry, that’s pretty sad, don’t you think?

The most likely to go 'postal' in that situation, are the ones who have completely over-inflated egos, but basically can't sing and have few redeeming virtues (aside from the nerve to go to the audition in the first place... ). They are the ones most likely to be truly 'shattered'. In cases like Heather & Jazzy, at least they have the affirmation of being told they have very good voices! To my POV, THAT is motivation!!

Not to step on anyone's toes.. but Jazzy has beautifully summed it up, IMO!

If you can see it... or if someone is "brave/stupid" (<--you decide) and decides to share what problems they may have, then its subject to ridicule and predjudice! For those that suffer from the "invisible" things, i.e...alcoholism, mental health problems.... they manage to find a way "in". There is something very very wrong with the double standards!!


Now... Allstar mentioned how the music industry has suffered because of this ridiculous stereotyping occuring.... and "good music and talent" ... are becoming harder and harder to find. And Roxy asks if the "obesity issues in America" will make music disappear .... and this too is a very scary, yet thought provoking question. Will the industry eventually fail to exist..... or will it change its standards to be more reflective of or consistent with today's "reality"?

And ya know ... Roxy makes a good point ... yes, there is a certain amount of "humor" in some of the things said, but bottom line is.... we are watching a show that encourages EVERYONE "that has a dream" to try out. It IS sad... that people are soooo preoccupied with the early episodes.....in which we KNOW we will see the "not so talented / pretty / thin / whatever" ripped to shreds. (I know right now that for most in SS, its a hope of seeing Jazzy or Heather......but in general... people do watch cause they know its time for the "funny" stuff). Roxy's right... these people are "regular Joes"... and they have dreams too. Whether they've been falsely encourage from family or friends... or ... kept around for "entertainment" value isn't the point... They DO have feelings and it IS hard to watch some of them deal with the "TKO" that Simon ultimately gives them.

I personally .... watch the last 5-6 weeks .... and try to decide who I think is most talented... a true "American Idol" ... so to speak. (I've liked the second place person for the last two yrs.)

I've only caught bits and pieces of the first two shows and most likely will now only watch once they've selected finalists and get to the real competition. (Sorry Jazzy & Heather....just don't really like watching the auditions portions of this show...I know you are both talented anyway.. ).

Yes, people know going in that they could ultimately be embarrassed on National TV .... but that doesn't make it any easier to WATCH.... which I think is what Roxy was saying early on.

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[shadow=tomato]If you want your significant other to pay attention to EVERY word you say::
  TALK IN YOUR SLEEP   [/shadow]  

Gilly. Perhaps someone should say to Simon, "so what, you are only 5'9", tuck your pudge in with a girdle, and have a dryer sense of humor than Regis Philbin"