Karaoke Forums

WMA is a lossy codec in nearly every application and anything prior to Windows Media Player 9. Period. Independent tests say it's a decent choice for streaming but not for listening. Who are these independent sources?
http://ekei.com/audio/
(Note: No advertising in any of the links, these are mostly links to tests done on various audio codecs).

Again, at low and medium bitrates wma is NOT the clear winner in any of the tests I've found online that were recent.
http://www.xiph.org/ogg/vorbis/listen.html

Note that Ogg Vorbis was tested early in it's devleopment cycle in the first test, and after it recieved come maturity in the second.

However, wma not the best choice for lossless compression. Ape is better in this test:
http://www.ntu.edu.sg/home5/pg03053527/ ... vs_APE.htm

If you're bored and want to see more on listening tests, including double blind listening tests go to this site:
http://ff123.net/links.html

So basically, you can use what you want, but there are better options than WMA at nearly any bitrate.

When I go digital (later this year) I'll likely be using MP3 or MP3Pro. Why? Versatility. If I decide to move to different software I can seamlessly without having to reencode my collection. I just spent nearly 2 weeks ripping my audio cd collection using CDex and Lame (about 400-500 cd's) and since ripping CDG's takes even longer (because of the video componenet) I have no desire to be re-encoding the audio if I switch to new software. If I want to listen to the tracks in my car I can because I have a MP3 compatible head unit. I can even put it on my portable player (except for my memory stick player and minidisc player which only uses AAC).

anyone reading these website articles, be sure and take note they were using wma 8 and 9 and prior versions wma( is up to version 10), and comparing them to the latest mp3. like comparing a 72 chevy with a 2004 lincoln.

draw your own conclusions..............

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I'm Not Dead yet...... But every day Im getting Closer !

Dr. D, why don't you just let it be. I have been using Hoster for a long time now (started on 2.014 and now on 3) and am very satisfied. It's a handy dandy piece of software, does what I need it to do, and MTU is helpful and willing to listen to suggestions.

Arguing with people that have something so say about Hoster, but have never used it, is pointless. We are all biased towards the things we like of course, but to shoot something down you haven't used yourself ?

And then all these web quotes . People, reading something on the web, doesn't mean you are reading the unbiased truth either, keep that in mind please. Every Tom, Dick and Harry can start a web site today and write comparitive columns, biased one way or another.

Yes, I'd expect Ogg Vorbis to win on a site sponsored by Ogg Vorbis, but they didn't always win - read the reports. As for lossless compression there is no difference other than file size and encoding time - and WMA lost on almost every sone in size to APE and the one they won on was just barely larger and encoding took MUCH longer.

How you can have biased results from a double blind study is beyond me.

And as for the versions of software in use - WMA 9 isn't that old and MP3Pro has been around for more than 2 years. WMA 10 is fairly new (released about October 2004) and was largely a cosmetic upgrade with the addition of mp3 encoding - no changes to the WMA spec for Media Player 10 that I can find or have heard about over Media Player 9. BTW, the MP3 standard is well over 10 years old and Ogg Vorbis has been around for at least 5 (but has been 'upgraded' over the years - just like WMA).

Besides, even though I'm an MCSE, currently support Microsoft SQL Server and Exchange and have supported HUGE installations of SMS and other Microsoft products I'm not sold on their solution always being the 'best' solution. I just like to point out alternatives that might be a better solution. Besides, even Microsoft has given in to MP3 as being far more popular with the latest release of Windows Media Player 10 by supporting MP3 encoding at up to 320kbps.

So let's say you're ripping your cdg's to mp3+g

What compression rate do you use ? I understand that many of these programs gives you "choices' The better the quality the bigger the file.

Curious what is everyone using. ( mainly talking about convering from cdg to mp3+g) as this is probably the way I'll go.

Also Hoster converts to a .KMA file. Is this a .WMA file transformed for karaoke? What I like on the Hoster program is that it keeps the file as one, the mp3+g programs I am experimenting with needs 2 separate files - an mp3 & a cdg file which I was told COULD create timing issues in swipes.

I have been converting at 160kps. 128 I could hear a noticeable degradation in the high end & 192 is very large file.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Kma is the karaoke version of wma and it does keep it as 1 file. It also stores information in the header file as to the song, artist, genre, duet, duplex, and Left or right.

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I'm Not Dead yet...... But every day Im getting Closer !

Lon

The swipe issue with using Mp3+g is this a SERIOUS issue.
That would be a big concern. As stated I'm not that familiar using computers to either DJ or KJ and have not heard of that timing issue
before on karaoke MP3+G.

No I don't know, i've heard that from others on other forums. I'm very new to the computer karaoke myself. Done some experimenting with several demo modes & WinAmp. But i've heard from a few people that the mp3g COULD present swipe problems if the 2 individual files don't sync up. I guess the operative work is could.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I've never had a swipe issue using winamp as the player.

The file size isn't too bad at 192kbps if you use VBR/ABR. During the quiet parts it lowers the sample rate because there's less information and increases it during the more dynamic parts of the song. I'm just starting to do some experimentation and haven't had any problems yet.

I've seen swipe problems on MP3's that I obtained from the internet when I was doing some comparisons. They were largely from one or two manufacturers (Chartbuster and Sunfly IIRC) but since I didn't rip them myself I can't say the problem didn't occur on the original disc during playback. They were also typical swipe problems like not clearing the screen or garbling the graphics and not so much a sync issue. From what I've seen if the original discs is clean then there isn't any problem on the resulting playback as long as you have enough processor/memory to handle it. Keep in mind I reviewed close to 2500 tracks and I only saw problems on 5-10 of them overall.

I decided to encode my karaoke library with ogg quality 6. This is variable bitrate ~180 kbit/s on average. On the listening tests I have read about on Hydrogen Audio the top codecs are mpc, ogg, and aac. Of course this prevents me from using some software, but ogg works fine with Winamp. Also, since I also stored a flac version I can always re-encode...

Morten

Reg. synchronization issues: I ripped all my 90 sound choice discs with a plextor drive and audiograpper. I have experienced no issues on any of the songs that successfully ripped (that I have played). I had two discs bad scratches. Guess I have to send them back to SC and pay for the replacements.

Morten

Here is my issue with the kma format. You rip all your cd+g's. One day you decide you want to change from Hoster to something else. Guess what there is a very good chance you have to re-rip _everything_. Decoding to wave and re-encoding is a very bad idea since you will experience substantial loss of quality. I therefore say encode to a standard format that most software will accept (or do as I and keep a backup Flac version). To ensure compatibility I would go with Lame MP3, --preset standard.

Remember, harddrive space is almost free!!!

Aloha,

Ripping can be done with tyrannosoft cdg ripper or mp3g toolz, version 3.0.1125 is real good, v 4.0 has some issues. U can rip to .bin mp3g or zipped. I zip everything to use sax dotty hoster on laptop, don't burn discs unless friends want custon cdgs.

You can place zip files on a server and share throughout your network, i have 3 computers running karaoke from the same files

If you plan on running on a computer, you will need these files to get the files organized.

1 winamp
2 pacemaker plug-in
3 cdg plug-in
4 sax and dottys hoster
5 mp3g toolz (ripper/encoder/renamer uses .net technology w/internet connection)
6 cdg autoname (renames using sql to kjpro)
7 sax dotty karaoke utilites (checks zip for completeness)
8 kjpro (237,000 cataloged song database)
9 tyrannosoft cdg ripper
10 nero burning rom (burn cdg's in non compatible burners, can also use it to rip cdg's using iso with non compat burner)


I use all these programs alot, have over 62,000 songs cataloged.

You can use sax and dotty hoster to export your songs into excel and have an accurate database/songbook of your songs, due to some databases not being accurate and the reissue of disks.

Mahalo

only thing I would change about this:

is
forget 4 (don't need the hoster)
forget 5
forget 7
change 9 to audiograbber
change 10 to a $50 plextor burner.

Lots of people seem to think you need a hoster program. WINAMP enqueues the songs just fine. Hoster programs are a wonderful tool, but they are COMPLETELY optional. I don't use the .zip players, but instead play them as the .mp3 files. IF you want, you can use winzip to zip the files, and THEN zip OUT to a folder that holds independant files in each folder. Again, that's an OPTION.

Remember, you didn't use a hoster program when you had discs and a player!!

Still very nice to have though!


True, but there was a time that LP's were the top of the range, today CD's are more advanced. My point is that technology moves forwards, and even though a hoster program is not a must, those who have used real hosting programs (no matter which one), will never go back to the disk/player era.

I agree with Knightshow, Audiograbber is the way to go. It is a great program for ripping and it provides you independence of any specific codec. You can use ogg, lame mp3 etc. whatever suits your fancy. The same thing goes for winamp.

The present version of S&D does not play ogg, the next version supposedly will. When the next version is released the present version is no longer supported AFAIK. S&D V.3 will not be based on Winamp and the plugins. What that means is there is no guarantee that the next version initially works as well as the present. Whenever software is rewritten from scratch it takes some time to iron out the bugs: pitch shift, music and graphics timing will all be written from the ground etc.

I would suggest like Knightshow that you initially stick with Winamp. It will be a huge upgrade over the CD approach and then see whether you need a hoster and what you want it to do.

Morten

And again I have to agree with Knightshow a Plextor drive is a must. Buy anything else and you will regret it...

Morten

I agree with having a plector(i own one)drive as well, was merely stating that i burn cdg's in non compatible cdg burners using iso/cue. so if your out and about and you don't have a plextor, u can still accomplish the mission, FLEXibilty I say. So for all you who want to be able to accomplish burning a cdg with out cdrwin and the ASPI problems associated with it. get nero burning rom and any old burner will do.

As for hosting software on a computer, winamp works, but for easy searching and que nothing beats a hoster(ie, database) and you can have the EXACT database on a spare puter for customers to que on and you can use them to export into excel or access or convert to any format for printing,

so get a laser printer with duplex, a website, business cards, projector w/screen and send them to me in hawaii, I'm broke but WARM!!

Aloha