Karaoke Forums

Producing is not the crunch it used to be.

I created and produced CDs and DVDs for years..

Back in the day, (The 90s) it cost me $1.65 per CD, (Lots of 1000) in the jewel case and skin wrapped. Turn around was 30 days from when I shipped a competed burn. And yes, it did require a "master" to press the discs.

Today, every moron has a multi burn appliance. (About $200) Spits them out asap.

A real producer will have a burner/printer..

With blanks selling about .01 cents in bulk,
the sleeve may actually cost more..

It's going to be very hard to create a list of this size and diversity that will please anyone.

Their niche previously was creating versions that upgraded other versions that were not as good. But quality isn't as much of an issue today as when they were creating discs. Downloads should be able to get to market much faster so they probably could still turn out some pop, but they need to move much faster on it than before. I still think there is a niche for some classic and even modern Country.

I would have to agree, but in the same breath, it wasn't the KJ's that designed the parameters of this whole deal. It was PEP. And I believe that it's just continually morphing into something they'll never be able to support.

(1) First it was $30 for 8 songs.... maybe 12 of songs that were "never available on karaoke" but then almost every song on the preliminary list has been done before.

(2) And "available ONLY to 'eligible' customers" but then "we might open it up to everyone"

(3) And, "pick only the 8 songs you want and save the rest for the next digital delivery" to "we're going to make them individual credits.... use them whenever against one song at a time."

Doesn't appear to be much of a marketing plan other than Monty Hall and "Let's Make A Deal" except you've already given them your money and the "Golden Rule" is: "He who has the gold.... makes the rules."

This is all a moot point if they don't reach their goal of 320 subscribers and even though their own website states that they will post an update of how many they have as they go along, I have yet to see a single update that they've promised to put up at anytime in the first 30-day expired period or even now in their 30 day extension -- and that's almost at the halfway mark. It simply looks like lip-service while hiding what's really going on.

Sometimes, sitting on the outside looking in is the preferred place to be.

Based on the feedback so far in this thread, it seems that unless the new songs can be released in a timely fashion, they will be of little interest to most KJ's. There are so many more popular songs than those that made the list.

For example, Girl Crush. Not a week has gone by since it's release where it hasn't gotten sung. And now one of the hot trending songs is Marvin Gaye. Fairly new and very popular, yet not on the list. Even though I have many of the songs on the preliminary list, they rarely get sung at all.

Since this service is basically targeted at KJ's and not the general public, it's important to introduce new songs when they are hot. It would be nice if you can release new tracks that would be exclusive to SC for at least 3 months before anyone else can release them. The XBox and Playstation do it all the time with new games. Just saying.

Maybe the credit system might be the best way to go since then we can buy what we want when we want it. I rarely buy discs anymore. My new releases come from customer feedback. If I don't have a song they want to sing, I will have it for them at my next show providing it's available from SBI or KV. This way I'm only buying what the customers want to sing.

Anyway, I'm on board and have paid the reservation fee for the first disc. I am hoping that this works works out for SC since we really need a quality producer in America.

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

I do agree with the "Let's Make a Deal" analogy because I feel certain I came up with it. Having said that, I am trying to put my personal thoughts on this new plan aside and help the fellow KJs (and SC) who are invested in this. There are KJs who are OK with the general plan and really want new SC music. It only helps them if they can get it.

This is a new direction for SC. Moving to downloads is a huge step for them. Their current plan is new as well and I think it needs some tweaks. I think it's fair to say that everyone who has commented thinks it needs some tweaks. All I am trying to do at this point is provide constructive ideas.

I understand that completely and it's very nice of you to do that for their benefit but.... It just looks like there was no solid marketing plan to start with and my point is that they've not been under a rock this whole time. They've known that KJ's buy downloads -- on demand -- for a long time. It's certainly not a secret and to structure something "the old way" and completely avoid what the market is dictating simply spells disaster. They are finding out that the market has other options and they can't herd the KJ's to follow their direction anymore.

It's simply an education you shouldn't have to give them. But's it's certainly nice of you to do so.

If I were a producer, direct downloads would never exhaust my stock..

I agree that this probably wasn't well thought out but that doesn't mean it can't be adjusted and salvaged to some degree..

I know this would not be "new" stuff and I know that is the goal. That is the only sure way to say SC is back. But I think the lowest hanging fruit would be to also work toward offering everything they could get licensing on in the back catalog (maybe that isn't on GEM) on download. I know there were countless times I passed on a CD because I could only use one or maybe two songs off it and it wasn't worth it. If I were still a customer, I would kill to be able to go back and fill in those tracks I passed on. That would be a huge value added to those SC fans and the revenue from that could go toward new stuff.

Look, no producer releases a list of new stuff where the entire list appeals to anyone. That is a totally unrealistic expectation. But people hold their credits and they may find 5 out of the next 200 that suits them. This isn't a knock in any way, but there was no way they were going to hit a home run with a dozen new offering so I think people need to adjust their expectations if they are disappointed. You have to know, just like with the other download companies, that you are going to find things you like in the next 200. But a back catalog on download? that would certainly apply a welcomed buffer in the mean time.

I would agree, but I don't think that's possible. That catalog was sold - audio and whatever else went with it -- and I believe that included any internet usage - streaming or downloading.

Slep-Tone had (my understanding) was a "lease back" of tracks that allowed them to distribute only on disc, and only to professionals, of some of that catalog. And this is where I believe that "the form of the entity" does matter: PEP doesn't own the catalog and never has so therefore, they can't have the same "lease back" because the company is a different company.

Unless of course Stingray allowed their agreement with Slep-Tone to be transferable to PEP, which would really be dumb. A perfect example of this is Digitrax, who thought that any licenses that CB had would simply transfer -- like an asset -- to Digitrax and Universal put the brakes on that pretty hard and yanked their stuff (about 25% of digitrax library) overnight. Their license with Universal made it pretty clear that anything they wanted to stream had to "already be licensed masters for karaoke use" and since CB did not pay any of the consented settlement payments, the catalog was therefore deemed "not licensed." Oops...

I'm sure that PEP would have to go back and re-license ALL of the back catalog "for karaoke use" including sync licenses, from all the publishers even if they were allowed (by Stingray) to redistribute it. In this business, a license from a publisher does have limited range and scope and are usually never transferable. Part of what trapped SC with EMI is that even though it could be claimed that it was "licensed with PRS" in the UK, the previous licenses with SC specifically stated that SC would not; "rent or lease" any of the copyrighted material. Which is exactly what they do with Gem.

But in order to have something to offer they need to produce something!

They don't want to take a loss or for that matter much of one. They want to see what the interest is in their product. If this board is a microcosm of the KJs out there, the answer is "not much".

They need to do like every other business on the market: Make a product and see what the real world desire for it is. That means taking a possible loss. Samsung didn't say to me "We are thinking about a new phone, pay for it now, and if we get enough interest in it, we will make it." They put the phone out, and if people want it, they pony up the cash.

From the dialog I've been reading, there is little confidence here about Sound Choices return to market. It's up to SC to prove them wrong, not the customers. Delays and having nothing solid are just keeping negative people saying "I told you so".

TM

Virtually none of this is accurate. Even the stuff about Digitrax is not accurate. The stuff about EMI does state one of their ever-changing theories of infringement, but PRS shot that down.

The one part that is accurate is that anything we would offer must have current publishing licenses, which we're working on obtaining.

Jim, are you not getting this?? The people on this site are telling you that they have already bought, most, or all of these songs on the list, and they have passed their prime. Personally, I think it is time Slep-PEP should hang it up and move on to something else. Maybe they would do better with baked goods, instead of Karaoke. It is obvious that they have NO CLUE what the KJs want. I think Kurt has lost his way.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

If I were you, I would also want "the stuff about Digitrax" to not be accurate. But simply because you say it's not won't make it so because (unfortunately for you) it is absolutely accurate and I understand how that accuracy may end up putting a bit of a kink in your future plans.

That's right. "Anything" includes the "old Slep-Tone/Stingray catalog" that you may or may not have any rights to.

i agree with that, but what business will look at the market, see a product that is already available, then offer the same product for a higher price? with the lack of staying power of the newer music, most of those songs have more than half their life behind them already. so by the time they actually get licensed, made and released, IF someone wanted to pay more for another copy of a song, they could buy it and get a few plays out of it. the other option would be to put out something that no other company has and corner the market.


now putting out songs like "living dead girl" or other SC only songs would be a money faucet wide open. hosts have been asking for just this for many years, i don't understand not attacking that first. in my mind, i would go after the songs i did that are not available by anyone but me and give the hosts what they asked for instead of what the hosts already have and just try to charge more.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

And this is why I say that Slep-PEP needs to get into another business. The KJs know better what is needed than "America's Favorite Karaoke Company"!! That is pretty sad!!

Excellent post, PK!!

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Come on, let's cut them a little slack. They are trying. There's always going to be some obstacles along the way but I'm sure they'll work it all out. Like it or not, in America, they ARE "America's Favorite Brand".

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Electro-Voice Evolve 50... Taking Sound To The Next Level.

I'll give you you they WERE "America's Favorite Brand" a while ago. Yes, people still use the tracks, and yes they had great quality to them. Assuming one PAID for them, it's a no brainer why they still play them.

As for now, they have a lot to prove. If your QB has been out of the game for 6 years... would you expect him to be at that level when he returned? My answer is: Show me. If they are good, I will be on line just like the others, but I can't go on nothing to show and just take their word for it, sorry.

I will be honest: I'm on the fence with Sound Choice. I want them to do well and make some great music that will be in my collection for years to come.... But I'm worried about thing. If they can compete in today's game with other established companies. I'm worried that in 3-5 years time, we might have to have a re-up fee (I think with GEM its like a token $100) to keep our Advanced Downloads. I'm also worried about the quality and the ability to sell Advance product BEFORE it's released. I am a fan of put it out, and let the market decide. Does it cost them a bit, yes, but that's business. If they have the following they claim, then they will make serious money, pure and simple. There are some 400 Gem & Certified KJ on SC's site, they should be MUCH closer to the goal then they are right now. And with their new coding technology, they can trace pirated tracks it to anyone who bought it, and that is fine with me. I don't share music and karaoke with ANYONE. After all... My collection is what makes ME special.

For now, I'm saying no. Maybe later when I like what they have available, I'll buy. Even if it's at a higher rate then what people will pay for them now. I wish them well, but they have to work hard to get my money, I only get so much of it myself.

TM

it is accurate that they were the favorite brand, and for good reason. the quality was at the top of the industry until the end of making music. but that was then, NOW the other companies are at that quality level so there needs to be something else to draw us into buying. SBI and Sunfly share a lot of music, i buy SBI. why? i like the lyric font and swipes better. when i buy Karaoke Version, it is because either no one else made that song, or their version is superior to the others. not for lack of liking KV by any stretch, but if quality is equal, SBI is less expensive. if SC quality is equal to the others out there right now (which is equal to SC 7 years ago) then there needs to be a reason to pay $3.75 for a song instead of $1.40. the name on the splash screen is not a reason to buy one over the other. if SBI was $4.00 i would go to KV first. it is not a "f@# SC" thing, it is business, but they need to give us SOMETHING besides recycled SBI & KV material at a higher price just for the prestige of displaying the SC trademark on screen.

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Paradigm Karaoke, The New Standard.......Shift Happens

Here is a suggestion. This song hasn't been done yet. Maybe it is in the works somewhere, maybe not.

Cut The Cord - Shinedown

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

I will reserve final judgement until an update is posted. Jim did say that they are going thru the 'older' requests.

They also said they would probably post a more extensive list on the website so hopefully that will make some of the people who are on the fence happier.

If these were the final choices, I have not bought any of them, so that wouldn't be an issue for me, but I would still save the majority of my credits for the next release.

That being said, I would STRONGLY encourage Mr. Harrington to do his absolute best to try and get a few songs that have NEVER been produced on karaoke BY ANYONE to market.

Plus for all you know, Mr. Harrington might already be trying to negotiate a new license with Stingray. He did say they weren't ruling anything out BUT PEP would not post or announce anything until they were reasonably sure they could make it happen.

In that same vein, I would also strongly encourage Mr Harrington to do absolutely everything he is able to get a custom site with as much of the backcatolog as possible up and running.

For me personally, there are still at least 400 songs I had planned on purchasing when I could afford them before the custom site at clark went down

Panicking before the proverbial fat lady sings is a waste of energy. I prefer to try and stay positive and hope for the best until that is no longer an option. So far, that approach has worked out Extremely well for me.

cheers

-James

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