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Old Paint
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Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2004 4:45 pm |
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Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2004 7:32 am Posts: 133 Location: Minnesota, USA Been Liked: 0 time
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Hmmmm. Power... interesting concept! I must start taking this rating thing serious sometime.
On second thought... I'll go with plan A, and I leave it alone.
Have Fun People (i.e., don't be mean, it tends to make people not like you).
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milo
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Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2004 5:22 pm |
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Joined: Sun May 30, 2004 2:45 pm Posts: 1348 Been Liked: 1 time
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Jazzy, I must say I respect you more and more the better I get to know you! (Especially after that too kind blurb about my song!! JK!!)
Seriously, I do...I know you don't have a mean bone in your body and that you truly want to help people and I know you well enough that you do indeed 'know your stuff'. And of course you know I will welcome ANY critique from you. Thank you for taking your time to do this for the ones that want it. I know that I can only benefit from it.
P. S. And I'll be right at your side wiping off any tomato residue!
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HeatherDavis
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Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2004 8:58 pm |
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Senior Poster |
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Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 1:35 pm Posts: 133 Location: Grand junction, CO Been Liked: 0 time
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YOu go girl!! No one can learn if they dont hear all the criticisms necessary!! I learned most of my tricks so far from you myself, and am still looking to improve- long lines of kudos is always nice, but I have never really felt deserving of a 10 and always want someone to hear what I am missing and point it out to me- COmment and rate me anytime girl!!!!
HUGS~Heather
_________________
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Gilly
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Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2004 9:33 pm |
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Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2004 8:16 am Posts: 1234 Location: Alberta Been Liked: 23 times
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I don't care for being rated... and don't rate anyone... I don't WANT to be rated, simply because I sing, and record for fun... and if I wasn't sharing it with all of you, I would still be sitting in my living room with my guitar playing for my husband. This way, I record it, and post it to torture all of you:)
As far as being critiqued.. heck... it isn't as though i DON"T want to get better.... I just don't.. care very much:) I just like singing (regardless of how bad I sound), and being able to share it with others... I have no desire (and never have) to pursue a career in music (with voice that is, if someone wants to hire a euphonium/french horn, tbonist, sign me up:). Also, I don't have the time a lot of people have, to be able to really improve on my recordings. All of my songs are first and only takes, with no editing. I just sing, and slap the vocals onto the backing, and out we go. Also, with advice...as a mac user, I use completely different programs, etc, than everyone else, and am simply lost when it comes to knowign what ya'll are talking about:) Now, when I first joined site like this, I allowed myself to be rated. When I got 10's... I stopped letting myself be rated... if I can get tens, having a sh*tty recording, with NO microphone, and singing with my 3 year old sitting on my lap, then who REALLY deserves a ten:)
Ok, that was a lot of babbling.
Basically, Jazzy, you seem to make TERRIFIC points, and are great at explaining things to people:) ALSO, people tend to take advice from people... a tad bit better, when it comes from someone who sounds like you, which would be trained. Now, if someone starts posting some tuba solos, sign me up for the rating business:) (sorry about babbling, it is almost 2 in the morning, and there are PEOPLE moving IN next DOOR.)
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HEADS TOGETHER
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Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2004 9:43 pm |
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Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2004 7:39 am Posts: 297 Location: ORLANDO, FLORIDA -ORIGINALLY SOUTHERN OHIO Been Liked: 0 time
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Oh dare I chime in? I.......... (bet you already know) agree with the be nice folks...Some probably surely are more qualified than others to pass out numbers, but when all is said and done, I think there are some polititians among us who put others down to make themselves feel bigger and better somehow...Because if ANY of us were "ALL THAT AND THE CAT'S A$$" we wouldn't be here hangin out now would we? Cuz we would be busy making hit records and getting rich....
I am not one for competing in contests either and Jazzy you are the perfect example, you and so many other great singers I know who just played the A Idol game....cuz as great as you are and yes, I think you are truly great, talent does not always win the prize...and the judgement is as good as the judge ...so before you get out the ugly stick remember how you felt after that competition...and also remember that everyone here does not aspire to perfection...and some will NEVER become professional singers or mixmasters no matter how inferior they are made to feel so why lay it on them?
We have some commenters that intentionally (I believe) give great coments and lower ranks...We have some that give critisism that is crude and rude and they can't themselves carry a tune hardly....And still others who somehow are convinced they are the almighty authority on the whole shebangy! We might even have a couple of tone deaf folks here, but I see NO REASON to make anyone feel badly about themselves or their offerings.
I think folks ask for what they want to learn, I know I have lately, but you show me a person who doesn't want applause after a performance...It is human nature to want to be accepted and appreciated.. ..... To sing a song and have someone say "good job"....I don't think any of us would be here long if it weren't for the love, acceptance, encouragement and friendship that abounds here.....
Futhermore, If any of us put up a song and all we got was advice on every coment of what was WRONG and what to do about it we would tuck our head under our sleeve and leave feeling unqualified to be here at all...I know I would and I will freely admit it...
I currently am open to ratings but am considering following suit with those that are tired of the rating game...and if it gets to the point where people are afraid to post their amatuer performances for fear of getting pecked to death for the faults in them then I would fear the joy could be lost here....and replaced with inferior feelings...and less members, which would be a shame...as I feel the overall quality of what goes on here is top notch...and I swear if you sing like holy crap I would NEVER tell you that, cuz I think it is mean and rude...I won't lie to you, I just won't say anything....I agree with Never Heard of Her and her Momma...as I have offered here before..."If you have nothing nice to say say nothing"...
*****MY MOST IMPOTANT POINT IS THIS*****
It would be a very easy thing for folks who want detailed critique to plainly ask for it in the typed intro to their songs.....and help is easy, all we have to do is ask, I have asked for and gotten alot of help lately....Another great idea would be to say please pm me with any info you think may help me...There is just no reason to hurt feelings or be mean about it..and I have seen rude comments...
I am missing some really good singers that have disappeared and don't want to see anymore disappear and I would fear if really low numbers start showing up, then less people will....and that my friends is not a good thing...
To me if it makes me feel good and I think it was superb it's a 10....If I thought it was great but not the best I ever heard from you ( but I would never make you read such a sucker punch comment as that) then it's a 9 ..but I would really have to think it was bad to give an 8 and instead would probably choose to not rate it at all.....I may be an old softy fool, but I will not hurt feelings of folks who are trying their best....and surely to GOD we are all....
God will judge us all soon enough and until then, lets sing karaoke and have some FUN!!! Bus is leaving for the Blue Bayou anyone wanna go? Second stop on the tour KOkAMO...OR IS THAT COCOMO...WELL YOU GET THE PICTURE....LETS HAVE FUN...
PS. I am not interested in arguing any points I made, merely expressing MY OPINION here on the matter at hand....just my lowly little opinion, cuz I know what I am and I know what I ain't.....(yeah I said ain't ... ....that's hillbilly for am not)...
Peace be with us all cuz we will have more fun that way....If you must slap me slap me privately, not publicly....and don't scare away the newbies....Please...
_________________ When I was young, I used to believe in the concept of one best friend, then I became an adult and realized that if you allow your heart to open up, God would show you the best in many friends...
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ok What Now
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Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2004 9:59 pm |
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Super Poster |
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Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 4:53 pm Posts: 803 Location: Gulfport Ms Been Liked: 0 time
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jazzy you can have ur way with me anytime...oops, sorry i was still thinking about those 2 guys jazzy asked for....my bad....yes hun you can rate me...i already have a few on here that r more r less honest with me...one of them is a real, iughp;gh...well u get the pic...i can't tell you his real name but his nic is AllStar... ... he was pretty rough on me, but i think hes going soft...if he were to say it, it would be SOFTEEEE... lllll... kkk...be as honest as u want to be hun i don't care....i wasn't going to be rated, but i can never remember to hit the no rate button....THE END
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A NEW DAY
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Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 3:36 am |
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Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 6:04 pm Posts: 398 Been Liked: 0 time
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I JUST WISH IF PEOPLE ARE DONT WANT TO BE CRITIQUED THEY WOULD CHOSE NOT TO BE RATED...THAT WOULD JUST PRETTY MUCH SOLVE EIGHTY PERCENT OF THIS ISSUE...
THEN..THAT THE ONES WHO CHOSE TO BE RATED WOULD REALISE EVERYONE HEARS THINGS DIFFERENTLY...ALOT OF EARS OUT THERE..
AND THEN...THAT THOSE WHO WISH TO RATE AND CRITIQUE DO IT IN A KIND MANNER WITH THAT GOLDEN RULE IN MIND...REMEMEBER? THE TREAT OTHERS THE WAY YOU WOULD LIKE TO BE TREATED ONE?
THEN RATE ON REAL THINGS LIKE PITCH, TIMING, EMOTION, MIX AND ORIGINALITY.
NOW THAT WOULD BE A PERFECT SINGERSSHOWCASE.
ITS ALL REALLY VERY SIMPLE...REALLY.
IN MY OPINION A TEN HAS ALL THE ELEMENTS I LISTED ..BUT THE MOST IMPORTANT THING I LISTEN FOR IS ORIGINALITY..DID THE SINGER JUST SING THE SONG LIKE THE ORIGINAL..OR DID THE SINGER PUT SOME OF THEMSELVES IN THAT SONG..IF YOU PUT SOME OF YOU IN THERE YOU CANT MISS IN MY BOOK!!
I WANT TO BE CRITIQUED AND RATED...BUT DONT TAKE MY POINTS WITHOUT HAVING THE GUTS TO TELL ME WHAT IT IS YOU THINK I CAN IMPROVE ON. HAHA..NOW..GOT THAT HEHEHE _
HUGS YALL..THIS ISSUES IS FUN..
KASS
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Phill Cross
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Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 5:00 am |
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Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2001 4:00 am Posts: 2807 Images: 36 Location: Anaheim, Orange County, CA Been Liked: 122 times
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I have read this post as always with anticaption that someone would reveal a better system of how to rank and it would be simple to implement. Key being "SIMPLE" to implement.
As most of you know, I don't get paid for moderating - I moderate this site because I enjoy visiting with you and reading what you folks have to say. I consider you my friends plus I don't get out very much. (even though, I may not know you personally) I do get a warm fuzzy feeling reading many of the nice things that people say about me and the other members.
That being said, I understand that the rating system has in the past and may currently upset some people. We have had several different discussion regarding this. I have posted my views and the staffs views on this previously.
However, in reading this and a few other posts - I was thinking - ( AllStar, quit laughing - It happens, I have a mind!) What if we changed the scale. Similar to what JazzyBaggz mentioned at the start, but instead of a number there would be a star! That may lessen the blow or hurt feelings.
Just a thought.
Also, I am working on a few items:
1) Rewriting the scripts for faster display.
2) Adding a check box to state either "Just For Fun" or "Critiques Welcome"
3) Adding additional space for comments
4) Adding additional space for Replys.
5) I know there is more... <<Brain Strain>>
Phill
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Emma
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Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 6:26 am |
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Novice Poster |
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Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2004 6:44 pm Posts: 29 Location: Southern California Been Liked: 0 time
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Phill....
I'd like to request something to your add pile...
Would it be possible to see the date of the last comment posted, when I look at my profile?
I always miss replying to people that have been kind enough to go back and listen to some of my older submissions...I was thinking that if I had a date popping up at me to remind me that someone is listening, I could reply to their comments.
Just a thought
/HUGS,
Emma
_________________ In front of a mirror with a hairbrush in my hand...SING!!!!!
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milo
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Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 6:27 am |
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Joined: Sun May 30, 2004 2:45 pm Posts: 1348 Been Liked: 1 time
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webguru wrote: Just a thought. 5) I know there is more... <<Brain Strain>>
Phill
Smilies!!! Give us hundred of smilies!!!
JK. Just thought you might have a little extra time on your hands and want something else to do! I can't believe you don't get paid for modding - you should!! (I'd put a big ol' hug smilie here if we had one!)
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ok What Now
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Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 6:48 am |
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Super Poster |
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Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 4:53 pm Posts: 803 Location: Gulfport Ms Been Liked: 0 time
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Will we be able to tell just who gave what again? i never liked the hiding thing anyway... alsooooo, while were adding things here....how hard would it be to have our PM'S show up on S/S, just a litle pop up maybe saying, YOU HAVE A PM...kinda thingy...r for the ladies you could say PMS.... kkkkk ladies, just a thought...
Phill, i never knew u weren't getting paid for this...ur a real cool dude...and ty so much for everything u do for us...seems ur always trying to grant our wishes r ur just looking for ways to help us out...ty so much my friend....
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JazzyBaggz
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Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 8:05 am |
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Advanced Poster |
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 12:52 am Posts: 305 Been Liked: 0 time
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Well, first of all thanks to those of you who have been posting your opinions, and to those of you who have said such kind things to me... I thank you as well
OKWN.... getchur head out of the gutter
Phil... I so do appreciate all the things you do here. I do realize you do not get paid, and that just makes me (and I'm betting everyone) all the more appreciative. You take great care here in trying to make this the best place it can be, and actually listening to your members when I know you probably have limited time in your life to do so... You are a wonderful "bossman" and you are a big part of the reason why I decided to move my support to this site...
I think the star thing is a great idea. I was going to either suggest that, or that the rating system be a verbal one... I just thought that neither would be feasible, and I didn't want to bother an already busy person with that...
I figured if it was a system where you could pick from these things:
Excellent Very Good Good Fair Needs Work (with no numerical ties)
or a 5 star system
people might be more willing to use it?
I think the verbal one with no numerical attatchments is the least "hurtful" BUT it would be the hardest one to implement, I'm sure. It would make it so that average "scores" not be available.. and I don't know what that would do to the song and singers lists... unless they were done away with
the star system would allow for the lists and averaging, but still be easier to use than that big ol' ten point scale... oooh or you could make them those little "silver thingy bobs" instead of stars . It could be a five disc system.
I'm interested to see what others think... thanks for always looking out for the best interests of the site Phil!
Elisha
_________________ [scroll] [/scroll]
[font=andalus]We Are the Music Makers, and We are the Dreamers of Dreams... We are the Movers and Shakers of the World Forever it Seems...[/font]
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ok What Now
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Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 8:18 am |
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Super Poster |
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Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 4:53 pm Posts: 803 Location: Gulfport Ms Been Liked: 0 time
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Jazzy wrote, and very well i might add....OKWN.... getchur head out of the gutter
normally i would take offence to that statement, but today being sunday i will let it go....WAIT!!!! todays NOT sunday.... ....Oh ur in for it now gurl... ... kkkkkk....sure missed having you around hun, and ur great voice...ok and ur great mixing....i think the peeps on here r ready for some more Jazzy CEP tips on mixing, and from others as well....i'm useing a plug in called ULTRAFUNK...some great reverbs and compressors on it...but stilll working on it...Jazzy ty for bringing up this topic again...lord knows i can use all the help i can get....hugssssssss
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knightshow
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Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 10:48 am |
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Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2002 2:40 am Posts: 7468 Location: Kansas City, MO Been Liked: 1 time
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karaokemeister wrote: ...differentiating good from very good from excellent from Holy Singing Batman!
HEY!!!
On a more serious note, I happen to agree with the comment above by the lovely lady that if you don't want critiques, then don't allow yourself to be rated. I also think there should be a bit of a longer point where you can tell us a bit more about the posting.
For instance, I don't subb all that much here... but when I subbed "Who Wants To Live Forever" I was looking for honest feedback. If I got a lot of fives, then so be it. I wanted HONEST feedback.
Allstar said it best on one of my other subs that to him, I had hit a peak with that submission... and he was going to judge all my other songs by that one. In a way, that's what I was looking for. I have no real ego to bruise here. If you don't like my voice, TELL me. If you don't like the strength of my vocals, TELL me that as well.
But then, that's ME, and it applies to ME only!
Tig - come get your goat... I'm done with it now!
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Tom Eaton
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Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2004 10:54 pm |
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Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:10 pm Posts: 280 Location: Champaign, IL Been Liked: 0 time
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Unfortunately the ratings are largely meaningless because, despite Phil's attempt to give a one- or two-word guide to each possible rating (e.g. 10=perfection, 8=very good), everybody wants to use their own idea of what they feel is an appropriate number, even if their opinion of the submission doesn't match the guideline. As an earlier poster noted, if they feel a submission is really sub-par, they'll give it an 8, which is supposed to be "very good." I don't think any system is going to work if there is a written guideline as to where an "average" performance is supposed to be, and people just refuse to follow the guideline.
Getting sidetracked for a moment, "average" is a relative measure, raising the obvious question "average relative to what?" For myself, I've been answering this: average relative to the performances I've heard when at a live karaoke show. The quality of singers here is much higher than the typical show, so it helps make sense of the high ratings. It's possible to do what a previous poster suggested, and make the answer: average relative to the other submissions on this site. But this has the practical difficulty that then no one can rank anything at all until they've heard enough submissions to know where "average" falls. Besides that, it seems a little unfair to give an average rating to a really great submission just because all the other submissions are great too. But back to the main point.
With respect, I think having fewer possible ranks makes the rating problem worse. If most people are getting rated at 9 on a 10-point scale now, then on a five-point (or five-star) scale, some people are going to round up to the top score (five stars, or points, or whatever), thereby making the former 9's indistinguishable from the former 10's. Others will round down to four stars, the equivalent of an 8 under the current system. What overall rank someone gets will depend even more on whether they get listeners who round down to four stars or up to five. Even assuming everybody rounded the same way, all it does is compound the current problem of many submissions of varying quality all receiving the same or similar scores.
_________________ Reward: nine yen in drawer.
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karaokemeister
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Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 10:35 am |
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Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 6:56 am Posts: 1373 Location: Pensacola, Florida Been Liked: 0 time
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I just think that using the 10 point scale is overwhelming to most people. It's just my opinion but going to a 5 star scale using half steps would offer the same number of 'steps' but be much easier to grade upon. Use the posted list to describe each of the steps:
5 stars - Excellent
4 stars - Very Good
3 stars - Good
2 stars - Fair
1 star - Needs Work
Using half steps (or half stars) would mean you could rate between two levels. Best part is you could transfer the existing ratings directly to the new system starting with 1/2 star=1 point on the old system.
Yes, we'll have a large number of 5 star songs, but as mentioned the people that typically post here are the 'cream of the crop'. We all sing regularly and usually take lots of care to prepare our submissions. While I don't think anyone goes to the extremes of cutting together multiple vocal performances to get the 'perfect' mix (like they do in a studio) I do think we will sing it until we get it 'right'. Unlike karaoke where you come up, sing and it's either good or bad we can redo the song over at home as many time as we like until the end result is 'good enough' to submit.
Because of this we will continue to have songs ranked very high unless we become overly critical of each and every submission. Add in the possibility of someone singing a song almost no one knows, and many people not being trained in the fine art of mixing music or doing vocal coaching it only gets stickier. To the untrained ear a submission may be 'perfect'. To the trained ear the sub may be 'off' because the music's too loud, they sang just a little off tempo or key. Something that would end up on the cutting room floor to a professional may be 'perfect' to the layman.
There is no 'perfect' rating system but moving to a 'smaller' scale may help. for many people it's easier to give 4 1/2 stars than a 9 because it's only a 'half step' instead of a full step. Creating a page with a breakdown of the sorts of things that may cause a lower rating could be beneficial as well. Musical clips outlining the mix being off, overdriving the recording (clipping), bad effects (or over effecting), etc would be helpful to new comers to become more 'trained' in how to rate. Short clips of 15-30 seconds would be long enough to showcase the 'problem'.
Well, that's my suggestion... good, bad, or indifferent....
BTW, thank you Phill for moderating a forum where we are given the chance for self expression and discussion. As an unpaid moderator on another board I know the lack of appreciation that often accompanies the thankless hours of time we dedicate to maintaining a decent board. Again, a HUGE heartfelt THANK YOU.
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Genise
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Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 12:24 pm |
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Super Poster |
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Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2004 6:50 am Posts: 514 Location: Scotland UK Been Liked: 1 time
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a duhhh brain question...stars are much the same as numbers...are you saying here that people are not honest when they click numbers?? to me they look mighty honest and fair...i aint seen anyone yet score less than a average of 8 which in my book looks pretty impressive...if everyone strived for a 10 everytime...jeez we will need EMI here to sign every bugger up ol....ok ok joking apart...what i have liked reading all this is that everyone can be very vocal have their opinions and not get told to shut up ...this same subject and one very simular such as panelists got me into quite a bit of trouble which after that kept peeping its ugly head up now and again while i was using another site...i like the fact here you are all expressing freely how you all feel...lovely lovely!!
myself do what ya want with ratings as long as i aint forced to rate i don't much care i personally will ask if i want help on something and opinions ... when i first arrived here i rated about 5 songs then realised woooowwwwwweeeee i aint gotta rate nor will....we are all amatuers are we not??? some with more experience than others which yes can be helpful but no-one here is perfect and i believe has the experience knowledge to be able to rate/have opinions on every genere...everyones ear for music is different what one person thinks is outstanding another might cringe listening...i think the comments are far more important
now ive got finger ache from typing all that hehehe someone pass the hard hat someone is sure to quote me ololol
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Phill Cross
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Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 1:41 pm |
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Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2001 4:00 am Posts: 2807 Images: 36 Location: Anaheim, Orange County, CA Been Liked: 122 times
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Okay which one of you incredibly talented artists are going to create the stars?
I found some but no half stars?
Need it to have a transparent background so that they will appear nicely.
Hmmm... Any takers?
I know that I have seen some of you show off your talents already in a different topic.
Thx
Phill
BTW - I still would need to rewrite the script to display the images as opposed to numbers.
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KJ Denndogg
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Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2004 2:22 pm |
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Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2004 5:31 pm Posts: 370 Location: Lakewood , Cali. Been Liked: 0 time
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what size you nead Phill?
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_________________ Gotta' Sing , Gotta' Sing !!!
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