Karaoke Forums

Okay. I understand what you're saying. It's actually NOT the type of song to ask someone to critique at all.

(and by rip to shreds... I meant... where's my negatives?) Cause I think a critique should both point out negatives, and assentuate positives. I reckon you did that fine, given what you had to work with;)

It just happened to be the song I had subbed at the moment.

Again, perhaps next time I say "count me in" I should have a decent cover song up.

Thanks for the input you gave. Next one, I'll try different recording methods... Perhaps the my vocal would be better left with my Sm58.

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

No,  Negative is not a word or mindset that should be brought up, or come up AT ALL and this is what I've been trying to say all along. Helping another artist and trading feelings on aesthetics especially given ORIGINAL work leaves MUCH open for different feelings and concepts. It IS seldom :fact:, How can it be ?  This is YOUR OWN work and artistic expression, which technically sounded good. But, unless the critique is a theoretically based critique regarding open aesthetic areas I might be VERY wrong in terms of what "pop 40 radio would want" given such a song..My feelings are ONLY my feelings on YOUR creative expression.  Let's DROP the concept of negative and lets tweak *ALL* of our mindsets here. IF it's *NEGATIVE* who does it help ???    Keep Critique positive the goal being to help another with what's often ONLY OUR individual opinion which is ALSO not a microcosm of a whole listening audience !!!!!

Unfortunately somewhere along the line critique became synonymous with OUCH..

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Actually Charmin I was refering to being critiqued....I am not a musician so am not qualified to critique you or anyone...besides I would overlook correctness of technique for an empathy with music and lyrics anyday when listening.

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

Steven.... I think maybe we are looking at two different meanings of the word "negative".

To me, pointing out what needs to be changed, what is not working in the song, is a negative. Just as everything in life has negative and positive sides.... so do song recordings.

I'm not meaning a bashing form of negative, and I think that's how you're using the word.

If you were to say on someone's sub:

1: This suits your voice
2: You were off timing quite a bit at the start of the second verse
3: You really nailed those high notes

I'd say #2 is a negative feedback. Done in a positive fashion, but it's still a negative about the performance.

You get what I'm saying? I think we do agree about critique should be done, we're just not using the same language.
( i know... run get Cletus, he speaks my language )  LOL

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

Vicki, nor do I feel myself qualified to critique ANYone here.

But, I guess if you're in the general public, and you have ears... then you should be able to say what you like or don't like about how a song is performed. Not every inch of a critique needs to order on technical... I think critique could also include personal opinions.

To each his own... I don't like to do it either. Unless it's obvious mistakes that everyone can hear and would be the obvious things to point out. I don't have a golden ear to pick up all those slightly 1/2 # notes missed that some do.

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

There are times when the empathy and connection to the song is more important than correct technique...I much prefer listening to someone who CONNECTS with what they're singing than someone who is technically perfect.  I think you may have some opinions worth putting out there...



Exactly!

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"I hold the key to an open door....will I ever be free...?"

Then we are on da same wave length Charmin...I stand by what I said to you on your sub, if you were singing and playing like that and I walked into the bar I would be encouraged to stay and hear more

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

ok I best close puter down the electricity company is turning off power in the area to work on the lines hugs folks catch ya after work

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

Why are you NOT a musician ?   What *IS* a musician ?  You have preferences, and ear for music, feelings as to what another person can do to help improve something.. What makes you less qualified to help somebody else in an art form you have some knowledge of ? None of us can, nor should we attempt to critique styles we aren't familiar with, or areas we can't put individual bias aside.  The Critique doesn't have to be erudite, sophisticated, or consist of garish pedantry

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

But, Vicki,  you brought up something MOST of us can stand to have some help with..  Meaning, SOME guidelines and help as to what is considered CONSTRUCTIVE critique, what it involves, and how we should do it...Jazzybags helped in my last thread a few years back mentioning things such as up--down--up method and others psychological components of the critique.. NO, it's not a process without any rules.. It's certainly not a "no holds barred" process either. The delivery of the critique DOES matter.


OPERAKITTY ?   Can you help us with some guidelines ?  I few years back I pasted the Muses Muse guidelines because I thought that site had a great grasp on this process, but today I'd rather let others get involved... I refuse to monopolize this thread..  Can somebody help let individuals who do not have years of musical training know how they can critique in such a venue and make it less risky and beneficial ?  Those that receive critiques SHOULD in turn offer them.. But I can understand that some are reticent because they aren't familiar with the process and view it as possible condescension.

It's very natural that most actually DO NOT know much about the process of offering a critique in music or the arts..  So we ALL can use some help in this area.. My classical training years ago is just that,  it's a different world today and theory changes.. as does critiquing mindset.. so I don't even know what's deemed as productive today.



Seriously, Do you think giving the critique is an EASY process ?  It's NOT !!!!
Do you think I'm not worried about how the person MIGHT take what I compose for them in a Critique ?  Well I DO !   Fact is,  presentation of a critique involves some knowledge too,  it's not a SIMPLISTIC process, it involves dealing with areas of psychology too, but anybody who understand a form of an artists area of performance, or anybody who has opinions on what they believe can improve another person work, can input these feelings.. Fact is YOUR opinions regardless of how advanced or how few you offer have NO less merit than mine or anybody elses !!    Critique is just how YOU feel you might be able to help another..  It need not agree with ANY others that critique, it should be TOTALLY independant of what I say, or what others say.. Similarly I have NO right to challange anybody elses opinion UNLESS I KNOW they will be receptive to it.  In my case if OK what now says "I disagree with my yankee friend Kappy", I WELCOME that... or if anybody disagrees with me I welcome THAT too.. Reason being,  I too am NOT above learning and improving in my understanding and listening mindset and skills..  Remember everybody is a unique individual, there's no ONE method..

There IS ethics involved in critiquing, this means all critiquing must respect ALL others sharing the process along side of them,  this means NOT just the performer, but others critiquing as well !   Two critiquers should not be beating one-another up here.. there should NOT be dramatic displays in a critique forum.. No fights, no flaming, just sharing and offering of opinions OFTEN prefacing comments with "I feel" or "In my opinion".

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

This is from Dummies.com at should clear up some of the problems regarding what's so misunderstood about this whole process !



This is why the stigma of "negative" exists..  The Critique isn't "criticizing" the person !  It's HELPING the person to improve and a positive process !

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

well where I feel I can be of service is emotion I guess...I rate myself as a better story teller than a singer.

so count me in

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

For those who add comments to my song:

Sorry I can't reply to the comment there. I have problem with SS and I can't even listen to the songs there.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

For those somewhat apprehensive regarding starting the critiquing process why not critique Jian ?  Jian really CAN handle honesty !!  Yes,  I know it's hard for some to believe that there are people within the site that can handle honesty and hearing what wasn't perfect about their material but it's true.. Jian won't bite your head off, or banish you from the site for critiquing him !   Some people prefer to hear honest comments and LEFT Singers Showcase because they know they were being lied to.. Some are willing to accept THEY aren't a "10"..   Try critiquing Jian for starters to get your feet wet with the process.. It's risk free !

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

or me, I can handle anything thrown at me  ;-)

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

True, true.

steven,

I just tried your trick on that hard part; 'your friend wrote and told me' it works. I can sing that part without my sentence being twisted.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

That's excellent !    

And,  It's what this process is all about,  members helping other members.  Seems like a positive process to me !

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I'm sure I can...but not tonight...my sister took me out, and...oy...I'm afraid I had a bit much to drink...*lopsided grin*  Give me a night to think on it.

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"I hold the key to an open door....will I ever be free...?"

Billy,

    Regarding your question to me in the SS forum.  Since Country is a very weak unfamiliar area for me,  and I don't know (in this type genre) about dynamics and style you'd be going for, it's not possible for *me* to use this style a a venue for any comparison, I've not heard you sing much of country, but I've heard you sing a lot of blues styles. So I wouldn't be able to differentiate between your past singing and your current non-smoker vocal variance in this genre of music, on this type particular country song.  I don't know what to listen for when I listen to country, country rock is quite different however.  Since you've always had amazing voice control and a knack for versatility in singing style, as well as control of your vocal timbre.. Assuming you re-did one of your blues renditions and I could compare apples to apples I might be able to hear a difference (ASSUMING there is one at this point). Keeping in mind that confidence level, and how you feel physically, energy level, and so many psychological aspects at a certain point also makes a difference.
It'd take A LOT of listening to like styles where you wish to duplicate a certain style of singing, you're pretty good at the "stunt" singing type thing where you can change your voice.. You have amazing control over your styling, it'd be tough *for me* to tell given different vocal registers, projection levels, etc.  



  I think you'd certainly benefit by FX tweaking since THAT'D be the only area I can hear (IMHO) that detracts and doesn't enhance your amazing singing talent.

  Give your versalitiy, or ability to become the singer you wish to project, you could sing two songs over the computer and I'd not know they were both you singing.  Hence, I certainly can't compare your country styling to a powerful cutting blues styling to determine subtleties.

  But,  If it's any consolation you've certainly gotten your high range back,  in fact in :you don't know me:, and wasn't able to tell whether it was you, or milo singing the verse !!  You sound identicle So congrats !  

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

my god u talk fancy steven....ll...r u running for office?    yea i'm not sure if it's changed r not but i do have more control, and yes i was thinking i guess i need to resing a song i have already recorded...gag i hate doing things over....why most r 1 r 2 takes, bored after that, good r bad i'm done....thing is i didn't wanna lose that rasp in my voice, i could use it when ever i wanted to, r not use it....i'm praying for my falsetto back,
lot to ask but oh well...could happen....

i'll look around for some blues to sing, see how that works out...
ty again my friend....

oh....would u mind critqueing milo's L.OLA WANTS.....she doesn't trust me at all...
and be totally honest, don't lie like u do on mine.....ty again