Karaoke Forums

hey Chuckles....c'mere n let me snorgle ya  :hug:

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

you betcha! straight away.

Oh! Are you the person I gave that 3 to that time? Well, if so don't feel bad (whoever it was) because I subsequently heard much.. MUCH worse. I think at the time, I was trying to use Kappy's ranking system (which is much more strict than the one I use now.. and the one I use now STILL doesn't make a lot of people happy ).

Oh.. no wait.. that was someone else. Oh well, nevermind.  :shock:

heya chuckles n seby...hope the day treated you well

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

Hi All.  I have been reading this thread for a while now as well as subbing on SS since I joined in May of this year.  

I rarely critique a singer even when they request it either because I don’t believe they realize what the critique choice means, or I don’t want to hurt their feelings because it was an awful sub and I don’t know them well enough to try to help in public.

I do critique, when requested, a singer whose voice I love if I feel what I have to say has escaped their attention and I want them to honestly benefit from an opinion. If the sub is really, really way off, I write a personal message if I feel they really want to hear that there were problems. I have only openly critiqued two singers during my membership on SS.

But enough of the reasons why I do and don’t critique a singer. My point here is how the singer reacts to a critique. If another member steps out on that proverbial limb and gives an honest opinion, that member deserves to be thanked and that is it.  I witnessed two members write a nonpunishing critique of who I will call ‘bad SS member’ or BSSM, yesterday.  Both of these members mentioned the same thing, the singer’s pitch was off and one mentioned that the performance seemed wooden. Would I have openly critiqued this member? Maybe, maybe not, but as the member asked to be critiqued, I would like to feel that I could.  As the sub has now been removed, we will never know how my critique would have been received.

But after yesterday’s fit of pique from BSSM, I’m glad I didn’t.  I realize BSSM and most members do not want an honest, caring assist from others who just want to see them do their best when asked to analyze their performance.  Both of the true critiques yesterday were written with no malice, no attempts to embarrass or make BSSM look small. They were open attempts to lightly nudge BSSM into realizing BSSM needed to listen to themself and see if what was being said could be a problem that needed to be worked on.  As a thank you for caring enough to write a comment BSSM openly told the first commenter she was wrong about being off key, as if this professional singer needed to be told she was not seasoned enough to hear what she knows she heard. Then in that same response, BSSM went on to reference a member who used the word pitchy in their critique and followed that up with an insult to that member's vocal abilities. As there was only one other commenter who used the word pitchy, it wasn’t difficult to figure out this was an attack on her. BSSM’s response to the second commenter was so rude and unpleasant that it forced an open war of words.

What can be done?  Once a member comments on a critique, the BSSM can whip out a nasty retort or negate the commenter’s opinion and the ‘Critique’ choice once again is used only for fluffing.  Do we need to ban the singer from responding to the critique?  That could lead to the ‘human element’ taking over and the critiques getting pretty nasty.  Do we need to remove the big ‘C’ from the submittal form and replace it with a blurb stating that critiques should only be requested on this chat line.  That may be the way to go.  This forum allows for a good back and forth discussion of the singer’s performance and the resulting critique and is not limited to one comment per person with the final word coming from an irate singer.   I don’t know what the answer to the problem is, but the issue must be addressed soon or SS will never be taken seriously.

Welcome to the thread B...you raise some valid points...and btw with your talent and your training you will be a valuable addition here

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

Thank you for the warm welcome, Ms V.  I will always give an honest opinion if I'm asked and will try to follow that up with any tips I may recall from reaching into what training I have had.

You have some valid points, most of which, unfortunately, have been hashed to death already. We of the informal SS Critiquing Guild have been trying to find an amicable solution to this problem for years, and even before I came along... though there was a bit of a climax after I got here.

Truthfully, I think the current system is fine the way it is. We will never be able to stop people from abusing the critique/rank category by submitting under it, yet expecting fluff unless we dutifully continue to give fair, honest critiques and ranks, to the best of our abilities, to those who sub in that category.

Allow me to direct you to Phill's response to this particular problem, when we had a huge (nasty) thread about it years ago:

http://www.karaoke-forum.com/viewtopic. ... 0051#40051

That was just before the 'C'/'JFF'/'L' system was implemented.

If I were to suggest ANY improvement to the site, it would be to simply completely remove the ranking option. Let there be 'critique', 'Fluff', 'Listen Only'... and that's it! The ranking system is ludicrous anyway. Of course there are those who LOOOOVE it (because they get 10s from their friends all the time), but I honestly think it just provides a means for people to get really stung by an arbitrary number when they're (far) less than perfect.

As long as the C category exists and people submit under it, I believe that we who critique have a DUTY to follow those little words, clearly printed at the bottom of the page under each submission "Please Critique This Submission". If the people subbing can't handle that, they need to stick to the fluff option, as many now do - and NOT just poor singers. In fact, many very very good singers never ask for critique. If they do that because they are simply very comfortable with their voices and just want to have fun, I think that's great!! If however, they do that because they don't trust the critique feature and know they will either be fluffed or flamed... I think that's just sad.

heya Seby, Barbara hasnt spent much time on KS (in fact it took a pm to Phil to get her acess here) so she hasnt got any history on the ongoing saga.
Removing the ranking would actually be quite a good one...that and putting commenter and responder on the same level by either removing the option to edit a comment or adding the option to edit a response. Personally I prefer the former.
Ohhh yeah I have an idea if rank stays then responses to those who have critiqued our subs under C should be in a drop down box where you can choose from...

Thank you
Thank you very much
Disagree but still love you
Agree to Disagree
Disagree and never darken my door again

that would at least mean any war of words were taken to pm

Hey B I love your BSSM it sounds like something one would do wiv whip n spurs

_________________
"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

Welcome Barbara Actually, I thought your nick (jbsinger) looked really familiar and that you had been here a while. Must have been a similar name. Anyway, welcome to the forums.



I absolutely agree about the editing. Not cool that the commenter can edit to his/her heart's content while the singer can only make one comment. Things sometimes become confusing. Since the comment box was not meant to be a discussion forum, I second the idea of removing the ability to edit.



 LMAO

I think Vic has a point with the dropdown menu and taking the edit ability away from the member doing the critique.  

I know I haven't been here long, but already I'm sick to death of seeing the rank used as a popularity contest - who's cutest, who's youngest, who strokes your ego most, who fluffs outrageously.  

Since that little display the other day, I'm willing to follow the example of you two, Seby and Vicki, I'll critique whenever the C comes up.  If someone challenges my opinion, I'll use my edit abilities to invite them to join us here, where it ceases to be just my opinion.

well said B huggs

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"Be who you are and say what you feel... Because those that matter... Don't mind...And those that mind... Don't matter."

 :hi5:  :dancin:  :hi5:  :hi5:

Yay!!!!

Either way... but if you want a critique HERE, it's best to post and let us know which song you want a critique on.

Since I've come back, I actually changed all of my old subs to 'fluff' (for some reason, it retained the rank... I didn't expect that), but have made it clear in my 'bio' that I'm still open to critique. I just don't want the whole ranking thing anymore.

Thank you very much for answering my question.

I've posted One Fine Day:
http://www.singersshowcase.com/song.php?id=2240&act1=2&act2=58682

If anyone has the time and would like to critique it for me, I would appreciate it so much. I couldn't get a hold of the original but I saw a video of her performing it and she was smiling and having fun with it. (Wasn't sure what type of "attitude" I should try to sing those words with).

I really love her music and lately I've been having a go with different types of music, so
I thought I would give this one a go. I usually stay away from her stuff because I have no raspiness in my voice.

Please feel free to tell me what you think, you won't hurt my feelings.

Thanks so much,

Lena

! I can understand the confusion on what 'attitude' to sing this with. The song is very upbeat, while the lyrics are kind of sad... however I think the idea behind the 'bright' sound this song has, is that the singer is 'imagining' the 'fine day' where she will be with the guy she loves.. so is happy.

My only recommendation for improvement on this submission, would be to have you really relax your shoulders and BELT this one out with a lot of high energy. The very beginning and ending should be softer, the way you did them, but in between there are lots of 'high energy' places.

You are obviously 'there' vocally... really nice tone, pitch, control... you have all that stuff covered. I feel that if you were to just 'let loose' on this, it would be a knockout.

Thank you very much, syberchick. I will take your suggestion on board. I think it's a really fun song and if I practice singing it with your suggestion in mind, I can learn to relax. Thank you very much for taking the time to help me.  :hug:

No problem And remember, it's just my observations. The others will probably give you other feedback and maybe even different stuff from mine. Ya just never know!

Seby is right about easing your body posture and tension by lowering your shoulders (and unclenching your hands - another tension thing).  

Lena you have such a sweet voice, don't change that.  Have you ever seen Sister Act?  Whoopi G tells a nun who sings in her throat to support her tone from her midsection - not to change her tone which was lovely, but to get more volume without changing her attitude.  

The other thing you might try, and this is a tough one to explain without showing you, is to place your sound higher in your head by raising your soft palate (the soft part of your mouth right behind the hard roof of your mouth).  Your sound should resonate from the front of your face in the bony part of your skull right behind your nose.  Remember how your mouth feels right before you yawn?  That's the position your palate should be in to start singing in your head.  It takes some practice, but if you perfect that position, you will be able to sing any high note in your range without difficulty and your throat will very seldom get tired from singing.  It will even serve you well when you are practicing to increase the top and bottom of your range.