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Charmin, it is clear that the narrator is referring to the helicopter pilot as he says "chopper pilot", and a person in control of a boat is usually referred to as 'skipper' or 'captain'.  But do you not think that all the members of the rescue should be given the respect they deserve?

Navigating any vessel in dangerous surf conditions is extremely hazardous, as evidenced by this video footage, and in the case of the owner of the sailing vessel, very foolish.   It is clear that this incident occurred in an area where a vessel such as that sailboat should not be taken.  The breakers are not wind-blown as Steven suggests, but surf over shallow water such as a surf beach or over a bar or reef.  If there was significant wind to drive waves like that, the sailboat, with it's mainsail up, would be behaving a lot differently.  Also, the scene of the Police boat speeding out shows no 'whitecaps' on the water, indicating the windspeed is less that 12 knots.

The people responding to the distress call should not be ridiculed in the way you have done.  They have put their own lives in jeopardy in trying to assist others whose lives are at risk and who have called for help.  The skipper of the boat that was overturned was probably doing all he could to avoid the capsize.... note that he has the boat headed directly into the approaching waves, which is the only way to 'attack' a breaking wave in that situation.  Unfortunately the breaking wave turns his boat and it is the second wave which comes from a different angle that rolls them.   Over that he would have had no control!

The helicopter pilot did an awesome job in getting low enough to get those guys off that boat, without having the chopper become another victim of the breakers. The reason for the guy falling into the water is probably due to the pilot seeing the wave coming and having to pull up to avoid just that.  

No, it wasn't sheer luck that the owner and his daughter did not drown.  It was his sheer stupidity that put them in that situation in the first place, and it was the courage and willingness of ALL the rescuers to put their own lives at risk to come to their aid that enabled them to be towed out of that situation!

Murray,

   You brought up an interesting thought here.  

   The Skipper of that smaller craft "Malcom Dixon" (I think) had his young daughter with him..  Now not having ANY knowledge regarding conditions off've Queensland Australia, or whether or not the term "Skipper" is used loosely, as opposed to (in this particular case) perhaps an individual who actually was an experienced "skipper",  coupled with not knowing just what truly happened, is it possible that this individual (a skipper) was affected by some unforeseeable condition such as a rapidly forming condition that wouldn't be avoidable given that particular geography ? I suppose assuming this to be the case, even-so it might not have been appropriate to put a child at risk regardless of how sea's and sky and forcast were prior to them even sailing off, and as I stated,  Personally I haven't a clue.

   I would hope a Skipper wouldn't have subjected his young daughter to such an episode assuming this situation was at all foreseeable.  Hence,  is it possible that there was a situation that wasn't his fault ?  

   (What I think I'm going to do is a general search on this person, and see what actually transpired.)

ADDED IN:

    He obviously loved the seas (naming the boat after his two year old daughter) but I'd hate to think that this is a case of a man that felt it fine (in lieu of his own love) to take his daughter with him to experience even slightly riskly conditions due to his love...  I suppose it gets into the type of thought and debate regarding "Steve Irwin" exposing his young infant to a crocodile, etc...   There are always things one SHOULD NOT do, because to do certain things is just plain wrecklessness, and Irresponsible.

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There might be something I'm missing here.  I did a search using Malcom (and Malcolm) Dixon+Daughter +  Queensland Australia+ Rescue, and (various formats of these keywords) on two search engines nothing came up.  This is perplexing.  I would think this type situation WOULD be listed in most search engines since a new copter was filming the rescue.  Hmmm, I'll need to use a different search engine,  this SHOULD turn up something one would assume.


Regarding "Rogue Wave" activity, I tried to get some concept via one of the video formats such as You Tube...  I found the following.  K38 appears to be a legit rescue and training team, BUT, authenticity of a 100 foot breaker ?    I thought the record was around 60 to 70 feet tops given non-seismic conditions...  THis is an interesting video.. where a few claim to have witnessed a rogue wave over 100 feet. Dunno  :shock:

"From the cliff it took out the horizon"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnqTnO6s ... ed&search=


ADDED IN:

Here's an excerpt from Wikipedia on the Rogue Wave phenomenon.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Concept in History

Merchant ship labouring in heavy seas as huge wave looms behind. Huge waves are common near the 100-fathom curve on the Bay of Biscay. Published in Fall 1993 issue of Mariner's Weather Log. Credits: NOAA Photo LibraryIt is common for mid-ocean storm waves to reach 7 metres (23 feet) in height, and in extreme conditions such waves can reach heights of 15 metres (50 feet). However, for centuries maritime lore told of the existence of vastly more massive waves — veritable monsters up to 30 metres (100 feet) in height (approximately the height of a 12-story building) — that could appear without warning in mid-ocean, against the prevailing current and wave direction, and often in perfectly clear weather. Such waves were said to consist of an almost vertical wall of water preceded by a trough so deep that it was referred to as a "hole in the sea"; a ship encountering a wave of such magnitude would be unlikely to survive the tremendous pressures of up to 100 tonnes/m² (980 kPa) exerted by the weight of the breaking water, and would almost certainly be sunk in a matter of seconds. Usual ship design allows for rounded storm waves up to 15 m and pressures around 15 tonnes/m² (147 KPa) without damage, and somewhat more (around 20 m) if some deformation is allowed for.[4]

Scientists long dismissed such stories, asserting that mathematical models indicated that ocean waves of greater than 15 metres in height were likely to be rare "once in 10,000 years" events. However, satellite imaging has in recent years confirmed that waves of up to 30 metres in height are much more common than mathematical probability theory would predict using a Rayleigh probability distribution of wave heights. In addition, pressure readings from buoys moored in the Gulf of Mexico at the time of Hurricane Katrina also indicate the presence of such large waves at the time of the storm. In fact, they seem to occur in all of the world's oceans many times every year. This has caused a re-examination of the reason for their existence, as well as reconsideration of the implications for ocean-going ship design.

Rogue waves are also known to occur on the inland Great Lakes, which are more like large inland seas. Perhaps most famously such inland freak waves are believed, according to some reconstructions, to be responsible for the sinking of the Edmund Fitzgerald in November 1975 (see below). However other causes have been advanced; the matter is far from settled.

A rogue wave is not the same as a tsunami. Tsunamis are mass displacement generated waves which propagate at high speed and are more or less unnoticeable in deep water; they only become dangerous as they approach the shoreline and do not present a threat to shipping (the only ships lost in the 2004 Asian tsunami were in port). A rogue wave, on the other hand, is a spatially and temporally localized event that most frequently occurs far out at sea.


Occurrence
The MaxWave project studied the ocean surface with radar over a 3-week period in 2001. They took 30,000 images each of a 10×5 km section of ocean in that time, resulting an a total imaged area of 1.5 million km². Giant waves were detected in 10 of these, or one per 150,000 km². A short-lived wave in a section of ocean this size is an extremely rare occurrence in its own right.[5]

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

This makes me wonder if some of the "Bermuda Triangle" sudden disappearances might have anything to do with such a phenom ???


The Great Lakes are also locations of ominous wave activity.   I think the Edmund Fitzgerald was destroyed by a gale wind formed massive rogue-wave that did the ship in in 1975

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Bill,  Check this guy out,  Glen Burns Chief Meteorologist in an Atlanta Georgia area...  Did a single Tornado to your awareness ever strike 6 states ?  That I never heard..


This was interesting however, the suction vortices concept (which I never heard of)

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Here is something crazy.. I just watched the weather and they are actually forcasting tornadoes this afternoon and evening...

Crap!!!  I need to run and hide but I don't know which way to go....Arrg!!!  Gotta love living in Texas... I'll bet Bill is all excited today with all the activity they are talking about....

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Will sing or fish for food!!I'm not quite right!!

I did ask that question....



Since I wasn't certain WHO they were referring to.

And yes, I know they face danger daily, did you not read my next post:



What? Are you a pilot or sea captain? That would make sense.

I still stand by what I said. If he WERE talking about the coast guard rescue boat, his claim that they saved the day would have been unfounded. Sure, they should get the respect they deserve- but they should NOT get credit where it is not due. I would be the first to credit anyone with a job well done, no matter WHAT their occupation, but it's the job they chose (most likely, because of the pay, or because they have a fetish with the ocean, not because they dedicate their lives to saving others....)  But I wont go around zipping my lip because they are in such a high and honored position that I should show nothing but constant respect. Only Firemen, in my honest opinion, are out there "just to save lives", that's all they do, day in and day out.  :no:



Again, I made no claim about having knowledge in this area. I boat in lakes, never been on the sea, and don't care to. Also in my post:



You need to not be so hasty in your judgment of what people are saying. (a lesson I learned, actually, HERE, thanks T.....  )

Last but not least, this statement should have shown you who my joking was aimed at:



I suppose video narrators deserve my respect also, due to their respectfully dangerous occupations?



.

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

Sharon,


  Yep,  I think Bill stated earlier this week the same exact thing.  He knew about these cells approaching..





Bill,   Chasing Twisters on Friday the 13th ?  :shock:

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

http://www.dailylink.ru/embed.php?stuff ... imate-Wave



Steven, this wave is most probably generated by a distant storm which could be hundreds of miles away.  Think of the centre of the storm as a rock being thrown into water, creating short, steep waves which become ripples as they travel out from the centre of impact.  The high winds of the storm create wind-blown waves which can be tens of metres in height, steep and dangerous breakers.  As these waves travel out from the storm centre, their wavelength increases and they become known as a 'swell' which, even though they may maintain huge heights, pose little or no threat to vessels on the surface.  These "swell waves" can travel for thousands of miles.

When we first see the surfer and his "tow-boat', the wave is typically a 'swell' wave which is approaching shallow water.  If the surfer was not being towed, the wave would just pass right on under him and would pose no danger.  But , since he is able to accelerate by the tow and keep up with the wave, he remains on the face of it, riding with it as it approaches the shoaling sea-bed.  As the wave gets to shallow water, the bottom of the wave is slowed by the friction of the sea-bed while the top of the wave continues at the same speed, and the wave begins to trip over itself.  The wave steepens and eventually the top of the wave rolls over the base into a breaker.  Obviously there is some wind blowing in this video as you can hear the noise as it ruffles the microphone, and you can see some wind effect at the top of the swell as it steepens but beofre it starts to break.



This is the same effect as can be seen in the other video of the yacht.  The offshore waves become dangerous breakers due to shallow water.  The way the waves are acting in this rescue video indicate to me that it is most likely occurring over a bar at the entrance to a harbour or river mouth.

Thank you Murray,


     I posted this for my own reference.. Crest and Trough are terms I must
     remember as well.  Similar chart !




      While I have a basic grasp of the ripple effect, do wind generated breakers also amplify in size in accordance to ocean floor topography, as well as distance traveled ?    I know the hypothetical example of a meteorite hitting mid-ocean and the effect on the shore based on _____ and ______etc, which in essence is how earthquake tsunami's and landslide generated Tsunamis form, but these as you stated are subject to faster speeds a much greater wavelength but lesser wave-height are they not ?  Aren't wind-generated breakers asimilar ? Ocean floor disturbances and seismic activity waves also travel at around the speed of sound as I recall.   Don't wind generated breakers in essence just get pushed at the surface creating height but less wave-length ?   I assumed these to be local waves (swell) with greater height, and lesser wavelength, and of course MUCH slower speeds of travel.  I didn't know wind generated breakers traveled in a similar fashion as ocean floor disturbance created waves, or sudden impact displacement created waves (meteorite), which displace a higher volume of water and create total hazard when such a vast volume of water enters a shallower floor, and land.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

kappy ur not sposed to be posting porn....  LMAO

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Here's an interesting documentary on landslide generated Tsunami, and Hawaii.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lv_60IEIGmE


I think the largest Tsunami ever recorded hit Alaskan bay and was caused by a landslide 1950's ???

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Charmin,


It is that statement I was replying to.  You happened to submit your second post while I was replying, so I did not see it.  The " those guys didn't do anything but fall in the water themselves (twice)" statement is the main thing that rattled my chain.  They clearly DID do something, they endangered their own lives to help others in need.  Your statement belittled that.  The way in which their boat was overwhelmed by the force of the waves illustrates the danger they put themselves in.  It was " the courageous efforts of the chopper pilot" that saved them.



I was not at all hasty.  You based your judgement on something you clearly did not understand (ie the words "chopper pilot). Before I replied, I re-watched the video to ensure I had the best and most accurate information I could obtain from it. Two things made it clear the narrator was talking about the helicopter pilot.

After the first rescue attempt, the camera zooms in on the helicopter approaching the upturned boat and the narrator says "The pilot moves in for another try", obviously referring to the helicopter pilot.

At the end he utters the words which you found so humourous, "Were it not for the courageous efforts of the chopper pilot".  'Chopper' is a very common nickname for helicopter.  



Surely you wouldn't be hastily judging, by your speculation, that these people do not dedicate their lives to saving others because they drive a boat and not a fire engine?  Perhaps they do choose to be surf-rescue professionals because they just want to save lives.  Or perhaps they may be volunteer rescue people, just wanting to save lives and not getting paid to do it.  How many firemen are in that profession because it pays well, or because they have a fetish with fires?

And what of the fireman who is forced to exit the burning building to be treated for smoke inhalation or because his equipment is melting, while his workmates go into the building to save the lives of those trapped?  Would you belittle his 'courageous efforts' in the same way as you would those who were forced to abandon their rescue attempt, not because they "fell into the water", but because their boat capsized and they were thrown into the water?

Steven, this link should keep you happy and befuddled for a while!  :)

http://www.seafriends.org.nz/oceano/waves.htm

Murrlyn....... Whatever your high horse views, I just don't agree full heartedly with them. And that's my choice.  

I did go click your profile (as you know by now)... and see that you are a part of a "Yacht Crew"..... so now I understand why you're jumping to the defense of the video narrator. You took it personal. Take it any way you want, it was MY view of the video, and no amount of snipping on your part is going to change that. I don't care for people telling me what I should/should not think or do. I'm a bit hardheaded that way.... ask around, they'll tell ya:)  

Yes, I do think many in that line of work do it for reasons other than "saving lives".... It's not every day they have a shot at that, they are normally just cruising around in their boats, enjoying the weather. Firemen, wether they get smoke inhalation/burned equip/whatever and have to leave the job.... they still face fires EVERY day.... and save lives... EVERY day.  Was it my statement about the man & child being saved an "act of god" that got to you?

That's my view of it. But what do you care about my views, right?  Just finish having your conversation, I didn't come in here addressing you.  



And thanks for pointing that one out, I wouldn't have known.

>btw, I'm not going to trash talk in someone else's thread... I came in here addressing Steven... but I wont carry on an argument in here, that wasn't his intent in having this thread started<

.

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

This is what I find interesting.  Varying hypothesis on landslide created Tsunami.  I'd think what would happen would be directly measureable via sampling cause and effect, but apparently not

Quote
"Simon Day extrapolated that if the entire west flank of the Cumbre Vieja mountain did the same, but with 1000 times more earth, it would send 650m shockwaves across the ocean, that would still be 40-50m high when reaching the USA, 6500 km away.  
But computer models do not agree, and tsunami expert Charles Mader advised that the wave would have a short wave length (less than 10 minutes), rapidly decaying to a deep water wave before it reached the US."


Enjoyed that link Murray,  I never heard of these two before,  I'm wondering if the later is also known as "undertow".

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I think I'll post something on "riptide" or undertow now,  that's a deadly phenomenon.


Following link courtesy of UC Berkeley Geology Dept.

More threatening than the waves are the currents, which cannot be predicted or detected by the casual observer. There are several types of currents. Most common are tidal currents, which are associated with the sea level fluctuations and occur diurnally. These are referred to as ebb and flood tides. Usually these tides typically produce very weak currents, though in some waters they produce strong currents with tidal bores close to five feet in height. The currents under the Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco can reach ten miles per hour during the flood and ebb tides.

Another familiar current is the longshore current which transports sand along the beaches. This current only exists in the surf zone and it is caused mainly by the oblique incidence of waves. Longshore current is sometimes a result of nearshore circulation cells which also produce rip currents.

Rip currents are the most dangerous and most prevalent current. Rip currents are a result of uneven wave setup. As a wave breaks it raises the level of the water surface allowing larger waves to travel shoreward. This temporary elevation in water level is wave setup. A phenomenon known as edge waves (waves which travel longshore, causing unevenness in water level) is suspected to cause variation in wave setup. Water from regions of high setup flows into the regions of low setup causing a seaward current (this is not undertow). The rip currents are visible as evenly spaced and uniformly sized brown turbulent streaks oriented perpendicular to the shore.

The shape of the ocean floor near the beach causes currents to form in the nearshore zone. Undertow, one of the most hazardous elements of the surf, is an effect of the wave hydrodynamics. As the mass of a wave moves up onto the beach face, there must be conservation of mass, therefore water from the previous wave rushes down the beach face, forming a seaward current along the ocean floor . If a swimmer gets caught under a wave, they may be dragged seaward by this current. The strength of the undertow is dependent on the incoming wave height, the geomorphology of the beach, and the presence of rip currents.

-----------------------------------------------------------------


Based on this bit of info, since undertow is volume of water from a wave which must return back to the sea, and is proportional to the waves size, I'd hate to be caught at the back edge of a receding 60 foot breaker  :shock:

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Here's a little movie of two dangerous "issues" caused by nature.

Massive sized hail, (and the Tornadic activity creating such conditions)...   I also was watching a little move of 1999 in Sydney Australia where there was a monstrous hail storm..  I wonder if insurance covers damage to autos during these events ?  Or is it considered an "act of god" in which case I don't know how insurance policies would view this.  DEADLY hail !!!

http://www.riderscartel.com/clip_info.aspx?vcid=3081

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Another interesting and nasty area of nature you folks in the south central (and perhaps surrounding) states experienced is the hybrid honeybee which mated with the aggressive S. American species bee that migrated or arrived somehow from Africa;  Two species formed a hybrid bee and traveled north from central america..  AKA "African Killer Bee".   Did they ever isolate the breeding by attracting the queen-bee via balloon and wiping out the colonies of the aggressive hybrid bee ?   I guess people would get stong by swarms of bees, and since bee-venom is a potent neurotoxin, too much is deadly.


When first viewing this short movie,  my thoughts were,  "Does this guy without netting and body protection have some type of deathwish" ?  Apparently "he holds the secret in his right hand",  I wonder if it's the queen bee ?   or a device that gives off some signal that repels the bee's up too a certain distance.. Dunno.  

Here's a guy working with the African bee species.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-hMzuZySh8

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Coming soon !

White water rapids !

http://www.aceraft.com/white-water-raft ... mbols.html

Niagra falls whirlpool basin I suppose is a class 6 ?    Water is a depth of 50 feet and travels 30 mph.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".